A "slight" problem regarding Air (yes, I know)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Johannes Kaiser, May 3, 2020.

  1. Johannes Kaiser

    Okay, those knowing my posts will know that I generally try to be articulate, moderate, and see both sides of an issue. Sometimes one or the other might fail me, but I always try. For this one I will for a while drop that filter, because it would severely impact what I am trying to say.

    *partially deactivating politeness*

    Recently on Miller DIG and KOTV have picked up combined airzerging, with a few other clueless folks following on their heels like good little lapdogs. Maybe it started earlier than that, but I've only witnessed it over the past 4 days. And it PISSES ME THE F*CK OFF! Surround a few capable pilots with three dozen peeled bananas in the most OP medium this game knows, and it DESTROYS FIGHTS, FUN AND EVERYTHING INBETWEEN IN SECONDS! The capable pilots keep any aerial threat away that lacks the quarter braincell required to run the f*ck away when seeing this, while the rest can just have at it and farm to their dried hearts' content. Look, I give you that it is an impressive and intimidating sight. And I can appreciate this. BUT GET THE F*CK OUT! Infantry zergs can be pushed back, tank columns can be thinned out with mines and then worn down in a battle of attrition (also they can not enter most bases). This air zerg is just bloody undefeatable. Nothing is an effective counter but other air, and that ain't a threat because of the sheer magnitude and the few capable pilots inbetween. Even though most of them are bananas, fighting 40 bananas with 5 bananas in lopsided cargo crates that someone slapped thrusters on ain't the solution, obviously. They shred vehicles and infantry alike, because neither can run away fast enough for those dip****s to catch 'em. Wherever they show up, they nuke everything and make everything done within 5 hexes a pointless mess of uselessness. Whoever is organising that: You've done a good job in a way, now you've proven your point, proven that air is cancer unless dosed carefully. Now please stop airzerging or just leave the game that other people want to enjoy! I could say way more than that, but I'd like to avoid the vague shreds of moderation this forum might still have and not overstretch my luck, so I will omit the streams of harsh language currently plaguing my thoughts. This IS the restrained version still, after all.

    *partially reactivating politeness*

    Please excuse this outbreak. Now, as I was trying to say, this really proves that air is out of whack beyond reasonable doubt, and anyone defending it has either not witnessed anything like this occurance (congratulations, you are a fortunate person and I sincerely envy you for it), are delusional beyond salvation or pilots trying desperately to defend their preferred method of harrassing their fellow players. I also used to think with some mild tweaks the balance issues might be solved, but this has brought me beyond the breaking point and I will support just about anything that ends this nightmare of imbalance, including - but not limited to - titanic EMP nets and weapons that locally superheat the air to melt any air vehicle in seconds. Imbalanced? Yeah, definitely. I call it payback-time.
    • Up x 6
  2. JackTD

    I have been gone fpr 6 years, happyto see people are still complaining about the same things.
    • Up x 3
  3. Campagne

    It really shouldn't require such extremes for action but here we are. I do hope something somewhere is finally done about the air problem.

    I think the best solution would be to nerf A2G into the dirt rather than buff AA into the sky, puns very much intended. Having 40 ESFs all shooting the ground would still be a problem, but if they had peashooters on the same level as current AA it wouldn't be the worst issue compared to having 40 of anything else. Sure they'd still be powerful en mass, but so would 40 lightnings.

    Smaller amounts of air would be able to operate without getting vaporized and if the issue still remained more could be done to limit the survivability of low-skilled pilots without returning skilled players to demi-god-tier status with air units.

    Tell me it would not be poetic justice to see ESF A2G noseguns being little more than carbines with big magazines. :p
    • Up x 3
  4. TRspy007

    Did you just say add a slow and massive tank that can only be used when supported by air????

    I doubt they are going to do anything to air, as broken as it is. But it would be nice if we could get AA that actually is Anti-Air. At this point we might as well just be shooting at them with the candy-cannon - and still, I'm pretty sure that would get us more kills.

    And really, the tactical skyshield that does nothing against air? smh

    Oh and btw, I don't think you're allowed to directly reference outfits/players on the forums. The devs won't read it, but if someone reports you for harassment, they'll take a look and you could get banned. Although at least it would force them to read your post maybe?
    • Up x 1
  5. TRspy007

    the devs just love listening to the community lol
    • Up x 1
  6. JackTD

    I dont know. 6 years ago the problem mostly was, that people were to lazy to pull AA
  7. TRspy007

    too lazy?

    AA is costly, not versatile and ineffective, that's the reason nobody uses it. The main form of AA is AP lightnings/MBTs, and the decimator. The best way to deal with air is simply to pull air yourself, provided you know what you're doing.

    You expect me to believe people don't mind tryharding every single deployed sunderer at the only fight of the only continent during low pop hours, but are too "lazy" to pull AA to stop air from relentlessly sh*tting on the fight?

    If AA did it's job, people would actually use it more often. Besides, that's not totally true, since there's a bunch of people who pull lock-ons and burster MAXes in futile attempts to shoo away libs and esfs.

    I doubt the real problem is people are simply to "lazy" to counter air. They just have not been given viable tools to do so.
    • Up x 2
  8. Johannes Kaiser

    6 years ago was 6 years ago. Although from memory I would at least subscribe to the notion that AA used to be more effective back then, especially the lockons and the Skyguard. Burster I believe is still about the same.
    • Up x 2
  9. paleohayduke

    tell half a dozen your guys to pull skyguards and problem is solved. A more organized team is always going to ruin your day.
    • Up x 1
  10. LodeTria

    Man cries he can't kill FOURTY people with 5.
    Like even elite infantry outfits are gonna have a tough time against those odds lol.
  11. Yellow Rug

    DIG member here. not really a new one, i've played the game for 500 hours all in DIG. Controversial opinion inc, but - I don't see this as that big of an issue. Why?
    1. The air raids are tremendous fun and what is more, I feel like 30-40% of the time we fail to kill the bastion. This just means that we aren't as powerful as you may think, but I do see that when we get to 100+ esfs then it's kind of hopeless for you. But this happens rarely, most often its 1 or 1.5 platoons of ESFs.
    2. If you're pulling a bastion, might as well defend it right? Otherwise it is supposed to be vulnerable if left alone, that's only fair.
    3. Part of your argument is that we are combining with KOTV to do this, which is correct, I remember for a while when I was just starting out the game I thought that KOTV was part of DIG somehow. But this is a whole other issue in itself, these 2 outfits are ginormous, because they are pretty much the only ones doing big coordinated platoons. Every day when I log in and I tick the boxes for "outfit" and "platoon" on the platoon finder thingy, I see only 2 things - KOTV Crusaders of the void | 1,2,3 ... OR [DIG] Open platoon/Outfit only platoon. And since these are the only 2 outfits doing actual platoons every day, this means that new players HAVE to join in one of the 2 in order to experience the game properly. Say all you want, but the game to me unlocks its full potential once you're in a platoon, not alone.

    I guess what i'm saying with the last point is that it is not DIG and KOTV's fault as much as an air issue, so it's annoying that you included these just to incite more hate in the community. These 2 outfits are doing gods work actually providing miller VS with a platoon to play in.
    4. The solution you propose is absolutely nonsensical, it would just ruin air combat altogether, but I don't think even you seriously want this implemented, you're just a little (understandably) angry.
  12. McToast

    Going with half a squad of ESFs against a full air platoon is like going in with half a squad of infantry against a full infantry platoon. You don't stand a chance. The nature of infantry gameplay means you' maybe get a kill or two, but those would be meaningless, because medics would rezz them back up within a moment. The problem wasn't "air is OP", the problem was that you were outnumbered.
  13. Johannes Kaiser

    Both of those are true. It IS an air issue, the airzerg is merely a symptom and a perfect example to spotlight the issue at hand. I included the name since anyone who knows Miller could point fingers even without me saying it, so there wasn't that much point to no doing it, might as well go for the complete story.
    The solution was intended to be absolutely overblown. But without giving those who defend air no matter what the utter flipside of basically making it completely obsolete, they aren't really inclined to try and find a middle ground. And yes, anger also played a part there. :)
    As for Bastion defense, you attacking it in force is...well, it ain't fun to endure, but it's understandable. It IS a big crosshair in the air. Problem really shows when that airzerg spawns without a Bastion to attack and then decides to end all normal fights on the map. This is - to put it mildly - not fine.
    • Up x 1
  14. Johannes Kaiser

    Thing is, since air is so hilariously difficult to get into (controls, steep learning curve, those tryhard air veterans shutting down any attempt at training), you can simply not say "hey, let's counter-airzerg" as you could do with infantry. Especially if you don't play in a zergfit, but it's difficult enough even so. It's like someone with a sword who threatens you, but the only thing you have is a pocket knife. Someone else saying "take a sword then" does not work and could - depending on circumstance - be seen as mockery instead of any form of helpful advice. (No, it clearly isn't here, but in a live situation it could come across as such.)
    Your point is, as sad as I am for having to say this, very wrong.
  15. McToast

    I thought your point was having to face 40 bananas in ESFs with only a handful of skilled people in the middle.

    So let me get this straight: The other faction has a couple decent pilots who - instead of keeping the air to themselfes - have taken to getting more of their groundpounders into the air, at the very least teaching them how to counter and how to avoid aicrafts as infantry because they learn the basics of how to use them themselfes. Plus having a chance at countering an enemy bastion instead of getting shelled and having to redeploy everytime a bastion shows up. And you complain because... you don't like aircrafts in this game. I am not sure if it really is MY point that's being wrong here, begging your pardon.
  16. Johannes Kaiser

    The thing being wrong is the idea that it's possible to simply get a counter-airzerg going. It isn't. For zergfit leaders, maybe. But even that I doubt. For anyone who is not a zergfit leader or somehow able to mind-control all allied forces it's simply impossible.
  17. McToast

    So the side which utilizes all assets wins against the side refusing to use all the tools the game provides them with, I guess? The other faction seems to be able to coordinate an "airzerg", why can't you? Or if you only have people who refuse to use aircrafts, simply pull a platoon full of AA vehicles. Spread out a bit and you'll create an air-death bubble several hexes wide.

    You got stomped by an organised platoon. That happens and it doesn't feel good as a small group or solo player, I get that. I'm playing solo most of the time and sometimes you don't have a chance. That's ok, the others put in quite a bit of teamwork and effort. Redeploy and go fight somewhere else, where forces are more equal. If they have a whole platoon in the air and you can't do anything about it, chances are that they also have overpopulation in that sector.
    • Up x 1
  18. OneShadowWarrior

    I actually know the developer of PS2 that no longer works with the game who was a coder, he designed the lockon capabilities and the TR Striker.

    They performed to well and as intended against air and vehicles, most of the time they were struck and killed before they could even react.

    Once Daybreak took over as Deybreak games, they came swinging in with the nerf bat, the coder who still plays the game cusses everytime at what they did to his work.

    Now with aircraft you have Campside.
    • Up x 1
  19. icufos

    I was caught in one of these 'AIRZERGING' moments the other night on 'Miller'.
    Hate to say this but reallly enjoyed it.
    I'm TR and the VS were pummelling us with at least 20 or more Scythes'.
    Been playing for about 18 months and had not seen this before. So it was quite a thrill.:rolleyes:

    Gee..hope I don't cause you to *partially deactivate politeness* again.

    • Up x 1
  20. fuzzydonkeyballs

    why anyone considers air op is beyond me. the list of things that can either 1 shot or put on fire with 1 shot an esf is longer than i care to come up with.

    an entire platoon of literally any force mulitplier is powerful af, pretty unfair to put it all on air.
    • Up x 2

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