A.I. Max Weapons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Styrkr, Feb 24, 2014.

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  1. Robes

    Oh ok my bad, i wasn't aware we were talking about uncerted maxes vs certed ones.

    In that case, i would like everything of mine get buffed because i dont like certing what i use and die to people that cert what they use, also i would like the other factions stuff to be nerfed so that i can continue on without certing anything.
    • Up x 1
  2. minhalexus

    I was talking about uncerted max vs uncerted max.

    NC max (without exmags) will lose to a TR max (without exmags) in a CQC.
    Its a disadvantage that NC maxes have to buy exmags to be good in ANY SITUATION. While a non-certed TR max will be better in ANY situation than the NC max.

    This kind of gives an idea of AI weapons of the maxes:

    nly dual grinders can win against an enemy max at 0m. They will lose at 10m.
    All other weapons have no chance against other maxes.
  3. Atis

    minhalexus, since when 1k certs became something hard to get? Do you know that engies pouch costs 3100 certs? And 2k+ certs to unlock explosives to put in that pouch.

    also, since when 1v1 max fight became very important? MAX's purpose is to kill squishes in CQC and NC MAX is way better for this. In team vs team CQC fight NC MAX can contribute significantly more.

    aaaand that's about time you stop making up stuff. I never complained about falcons, I complained about shotguns and mentioned falcons only to debunk this "NC max is 100% harmless at range" crap.
    Pounders are better as all-around and that's it, in CQC shotguns are much better: bigger mag, higher ROF, more damage from partial hit, less risk to damage yourself or fellow max during max rush, etc.

    Long range is not max speciality, 1 good weapon is enough, CQC weapon is much more important. that's the problem with VS max - lots of unneeded long-range guns and 0 pure CQC ones.

    Unfortunately, you don't seem to care a whit about actual post content, more you have a troll axe to grind, which makes any rational discussion with you fairly pointless I guess.
  4. Gendomaoken

    I would like to point out, that even tho VS/TR MAX isnt as deadly as NC in CQC, its more versatile, as written in one of points above. Basically, in my TR and VS max i can run outside and kill enemies from the range they engage me(exept for snipers), while as NC max i need to take slugs to be able to do something outside(but with slugs accuracy you need to have a)mattocks, b)stop and crouch, c) pray that you kill him before your clip is empty). Also its worth to mention, that TR and VS MAX is more effective in sealing stairs, since they can kill things while they try to go up, instead of murdering them only if they reached top.

    About the aegis shield. I had a round in biolab on my VS MAX. And honestly, i had a laugh at NC max trying to close range to me with that shield, while i just backpedaled, plinking his shield off, killing him in the end. Hillarious. If he used charge, he would murder me. But yes, shield is OP.

    Id like to point out few things. While Falcons with their BIG alpha damage are fine as ranged weapons(But lets not kid ourselves, hitting moving target is VERY hard with them, altho not impossible. But thats just a basic rule to always move, not to be an easy target), Pounders and Comets are finding more use in CQC. Especially Pounders, which can murder NC max at HIS OWN DOMINATION RANGE in ONE CLIP. Yes. Dual Pounder absolutely murders NC MAX in his own CQC range. I did test it, played thru biolabs, towers and base caps, Pounder is absolutely murdersome in CQC. TR cannot deny it, this time you got a worthy toy, its your best counter to NC MAX. Only VS got shafted, since Comets arent really comparable to neither Pounders or Falcons. I hope that they get balanced up to their level
  5. Goretzu

    You never complained about Falcons? :confused: :D

    Here is you, complaining about Falcons (but not Pounders):
    So what exactly am I "making up"? :confused: (hint: nothing)

    Although at least we are in agreement that Pounders are better.

    However with the standard AI MAX weapons (not the AV ones used for AI) the only one that offers decent range is Mattock + slugs + extended mags..... yet the TR and VS ones are within 0.3 seconds of the lowest TTK.
  6. Hauser

    Several write that TR AI MAXes are weak -- I think you're missing the bigger picture. It's quite easy to maintain a good KDR as a TR AI MAX, or any AI MAX for that, as they are all quite strong vs. regular infantry, especially indoors.
    • Up x 1
  7. minhalexus

    TR and VS maxes are better at holding indoor and outdoor cap points.

    The TR/VS max can kill the enemy while they are trying to come closer to them. NC max can not kill the same guy until he is 5m from you.

    Slugs give you a worse TTK than TR/VS weapons considering its accuracy.

    1k certs are had always been hard to get. (takes me a week even though i play 1-2 hours every day, most players i know of play less)
    But that is not the point.


    Exmags on TR/VS maxes are optional. On the NC max its mandatory. There is an imbalance right there.

    Its not the case if 1000 certs are achievable in a week. Its about i have to spend those 1000 certs on the NC max to get it working.
    I could have spent those 1000 certs on something else (on my TR/VS char) such as improving my magrider.

    And 1000 certs are not a giveaway. Although if they make exmags like 100 certs (each) i wouldnt complain.
    • Up x 1
  8. Atis

    Surprise, I actually tested this in VR and guess what? TR max kills NC max in 10 pounder shots, which means 2,5 clips, which means dual pounders still require 1 reload. NC max kills TR max in 5 falcon shots and it takes only slightly more time than with pounders, in real massive fight difference is negligible.
    Granted, TR max can afford few misses, and scatmax kills maxes slower than falcon or pounder max, but it kills other infantry faster, leaving less chances to fight back or perform manoeuvres. When i put C4 as my medic on TR max and get caught i can at least press button and take max with me. With scat max i die faster than button can be pressed.

    Yes, i debunked "NC max is harmless at 10+ m" crap, and your point is? Oh wait, saying that weapon can kill at its normal range or that NC max has access to mid-range gun is complaining about weapon? Now try to read my posts with non-troll mindset (if you have any).
    And on moving target 0.3sec ttk can be extended. 0,01 sec TTK can be multiplied few times, it's still very close to 0 sec.
    But i'm sure its very consolatory to know that 2 scatmaxes, which just wiped your whole squad in tiny room in 2 sec, one day can meet cosmos maxes at 30+m in narrow corridor.

    Bigger picture shows that 10 guys with rifles in CQC can take down 2 VS maxes, most often 2 TR maxes but NC maxes must be very unlucky to lose such fight. TR max and especially VS max requires some player skill to steamroll meatcrowd. NC max can roll even if player is below average. Scatmax TTK is so low its very close to human reaction limit.

    To be decent engi you need good repair tool, vest, mines etc. Decent medic requires good healing gun, res nades, etc. All classes need some certs to be somehow effective and usually way more than 1k certs. Yes, you can go with stock options but NC max also can go with stock and slaughter lots of ppl and not only at 5m. It will be weaker vs TR max but more effective vs anything else and last time i checked, maxes were not biggest part of population.
    1v1 equally certed 100%health max fight is not normal situation. 10 angry guys in small room with A-point is. And scatmax even without extmags with basic support will be way more useful here than lolVSsmax and even zomgpounder max with same support.
    For outdoors there are better options than max.
  9. Ravenwolf Foxtrack

    I have an NC max with shield, duel hacksaws with extend clips and slugs. I can 1v1 a tr or vs max and drop it in one full salvo fired. that's 20 hacksaw slugs, full auto, and as I start to reload, I pull out the shield, and as soon as I'm reloaded I drop shield and repeat. Mind you this is just CQC. outside of face to face, the NC max is trash.
  10. Goretzu

    No, you complained about the Falcon, no one is saying the Falcon (3.0) isn't a decent long range AI weapon (so long as the targets are fairly stationary), as was the Falcon (1.0) - the Falcon (2.0) was rubbish however.

    It is NOT however better than the Pounder (which you didn't complain about) and arguably even the Fracture is still a stronger all around long range "AI" MAX weapon.

    The difference is the TR and VS MAX AI weapons have decent range (not just the AV weapons used for AI), where as the NC AI MAX weapons do not (even the Mattock with slugs, which is by far the best range-wise).

    Again no.

    The 0.3 second TTK is at 0m.

    Once you start to talk about any range or movement the ball very quickly swings in favour of VS and TR AI MAX weapons (as does simply aiming at the head with the Blueshift or to a slighly lesser extend the Mercy).

    So again if any NC AI MAX wiped your squad out in "2 seconds" then exactly the same players using TR or VS AI MAXs would do it at worst "3 seconds" and arguably "less than 2 seconds" if any range was involved.

    As for MAX vs MAX KA5 makes you immune to ANY NC AI MAX that isn't using Dual Grinders with extended mag.
  11. Goretzu

    You can a standard TR/VS MAX (where as your MAX is far from standard with slugs and extended mags), but one with KA5 you'd need a reload and a bit to kill.
  12. Gendomaoken

    Ok, lets say i was mistaken about TR dual pounders TTK. I give you that, but even tho, with their functionality, they give more effectiveness, than falcons, which does have high alfa, but thats it.

    But really, you fight (with all you "non-trollish behaviour", pun intended) NC maxes and that they try to use what they have as effectively as intended, with tools they recieved. Tools that are effective in different, often unexpected ways, if used properly. However, you completely ignore, that same tools are being used by other factions, in a way to counter their weaknesses, despise the difficulties in adapting that equiupment to that. Pounders bigger drop than falcons, falcons slow projectiles, easy to avoid, and comets, big, slow and shiny.

    Also, putting poins about how godlike NC max is, that 2 of them can clear a room with 10 players, while TR and VS MAXes are weak, for they cannot hope to accomplish it. Mate, what kind of ******** are you pulling here? They will clear it just as effectively as NC MAX, im sorry, i cant take this argument seriously. If VS and TR MAX go in that room, with their version of high ROF weapons, result will be the same, as with NC MAXEs.

    As for the last argument. Im sorry, Stock NC MAX better than STOCK TR/VS MAX? BETTER?!?! ( i can consider stock in 2 variants, one with basic weapons every MAX gets, or with cheapest secondary AI) even with cheapest chaingun TR and VS max are effective against everything from medium range. This is AGAIN where everyone forgets about suppression, and that NC needs to go up to the face of enemy to wipe them out, while TR and VS just shoot from afar. And from that range they can also dodge rockets from heavies.

    Id like to say, in the name of whole NC community, that untill we dont get any mid range weapons( and you get some shotgun versions, for fairness ) we will continue to scatmax you with impunity, in our own, short range, for those are the tools we recieved. We will continue to shoot you with falcons, cause thats only thing we can do at range.
    • Up x 1
  13. Atis

    Its even funnier now: guy said that "outside of face to face, the NC max is trash" and RIGHT after that you added "no one is saying the Falcon (3.0) isn't a decent long range AI weapon"
    Ppl say that alot, only you tend to forget about stuff, which hinders your troll streaks.

    I dont complain about pounders, cause i dont complain about AV (by design) weapons at all. They are not balanced but also not totally broken. You invented "falcon complains" due to lack of stuff to pick on.

    Yea, non-NC maxes have more options at range, which they dont really need often and only pounders for CQC, where they need better guns all the time.

    OK, how about you jump on KA5 max and try to stop 3 NCmaxes? I mean, you are immune, right? You couldn't be stupid enough to mean 1v1 fight, when we discuss largest-scale FPS on planet.

    0.3sec ttk was about CQC on TR max. for NCmax its very close to 0sec at 0-8m.

    I'll believe in tr/vs-max superperformance when I see it. For now i see every dual-shotty max popping ppl like soap bubbles and VS max retreating for repairs after barely killing 2 guys, TR is in-between. And it happens all the time, its not just 1 pro NCmax and 1 bad VSmax.

    I'm sure you will continue to faceroll with shotty-max even after getting cosmos-level MGs, but if we can do same it would be ok.

    Gap between falcon and pounders is not that big as between dual-mattocks and dual mercy.
    Also, dual-falcon kills at 1 hit with both shells, even shielded HA, if wiki is right, which leaves less time to react. With pounders there is still time to press C4 button or RL trigger, even without shield. So falcons have their strong points, even comparing to pounders. And comets - lol, HA should tank 2 dualhits, Which means vs max needs reload even to kill 1 shielded HA with AV.
    What about my behaviour? Do I ignore inconvenient questions, like Goretzu? Do i answer questions i invented myself instead of yours, like Goretzu? Wanna see troll? You can guess where to look for.

    And again, I dont see VS maxes easily clearing room full of non-nooby ppl. With high TTK of MGs maxes cant suppress many opponents at once and get at least 1 clip from every guy. Also vs max head is easy to aim on. When i sit with random guys in room and TR maxes rush in we just shoot and often enough we win (with heavy losses ofc) or lose, taking 1-2 max with us. It just doesnt happen with NC maxes, unless they are terribad and let us put C4 on their way. I'll believe what you say when i see it on daily basis.

    Yes stock NC max still oneshots most ppl with scat+facl combo in CQC. Yes VS max can shot from afar, so what? From afar you can shot without maxes, they are irreplaceable only in CQC, for G2G at range you can use tank or easy-to-revive meatbags.
  14. Goretzu

    The NC AI MAX is poor outside of close range, the Mattock with slugs is the only one that really moves into what could be called medium range.

    The Falcon is ok at long range AI (now since it's change from the Falcon 2.0 which was pretty rubbish at AI), but it's still nothing like the pre-nerf Fracture.

    But the fact that an NC AV MAX weapon is ok at long range AI (although worse than the Pounder, as we agree, and still probably worse than the Fracture - which simply isn't used as much in that role now because the Pounder is so good) doesn't take anything away from NC AI MAX weapon having poor range. :confused:

    The TR have better AI MAX weapons range-wise AND better AV MAX weapons (when used for AI) in the Pounder and Fracture.

    Again you clearly complained about Falcons.

    Yet didn't about Pounders which are BETTER IN THAT ROLE than Falcons. :confused:

    They have more AV options for long range AI AND they have more AI options for close-mid range AI.

    They also have very poor sustained DPS, cannont win MAX vs MAX in a lot of cases and spend 2/3's of their time reloading all for a 0.3 second shorter TTK.

    It's the same standard AI MAX vs standard AI MAX only the NC MAX with dual Grinders can win, everything else requires a reload in which time the TR/VS AI MAX easily has the DPS to kill them.

    Being outnumbered however is just being outnumbered.

    3 TR MAX vs 1 NC MAX the NC MAX loses. 3 NC MAXs vs 1 TR MAX the TR MAX loses......... that is NOT unexpected! :D

    The 0.3 second TTK stretches out to a good 10m+, the NC TTK is dropping off by at little as 5m, also past 10m the TR/VS TTK drops slowly, where as the NC AI MAX TTK plumets.

    Also this is ignoring people with good enough aims to consistantly headshot with Blueshifts and Mercys.

    This is strange because all VS and TR MAXs are better at range, the idea that you're seeing in the same situation an NC MAX somehow take "no damage", yet TR and VS MAXs take loads of damage dispite having better ranged weapons is slightly preposterous. :confused:

    I think you're seeing what you want to see, not what is really there.

    You're not going to door camp quite as effectively with a Blueshift or Mercy MAX as you would with the lower TTK weapons...... but then that's the point of those weapons, significantly longer range.

    And if you're being outperformed at range by NC AI MAX whilst having Blueshifts or Mercys then sorry, but the fault is entirely at your end NOT the MAXs.

    The gap favours the TR in both cases though, as usually at the range you're using mattocks you don't even need to use Mercys anyway.
    • Up x 1
  15. minhalexus

    I dont understand why TR/VS maxes have such high magazines.

    NC maxes have basically the same shotguns on their infantry classes but with lower RoF and higher reloads.
    TR/VS maxes have carbines with lower RoF and higher reloads, but they get a magazine size twice the size a carbine has to compensate for their loss.

    So the NC max has a reload of 3-4 seconds on a magazine of 6 rounds. (in practical gaming i'm mostly performing the long reload)
    The TR/VS max have a 2-3 seconds of reload on a magazine of 60/50 rounds. (in practical gaming i'm mostly performing the short reload)

    I believe that the NC maxes should get a buff on their magazine sizes just like the TR and VS maxes get, or they should get reloads and RoF of the regular shotguns. (which is decently faster)
    • Up x 2
  16. bubbacon

    No doubt Mercs are ineffective. The CoF on these things have really gotten bad. I don't even use them anymore.

    Run with a TR MAX outfitted with dual Mercs and then swap over to VS MAX with dual Blue Shifts and you may not come back to TR. Come to think of it...
  17. Styrkr

    Hot damn I learned a lot from this thread. From what I've seen, all AI maxes are balanced but require a niche. TR/VS is good for Fatal Funnels, and NC is wicked for ambush, anti-max, or with support.

    All AI weapons seem to be more on the CQC side, with VS having a slight extension. Now that I think about it, VS is (or was) the only one useful in an open area. But ZOE is "gone" so all maxes are somewhat limited to buildings unless they have a lot of support. Mainly due to range. NC has the scatter issue (just the nature of the weapon), TR has the CoF. No idea about VS, but I'm sure it's something. Me thinks the AI maxes are really only effective at close range by design, even though realistically (take that with a grain of salt), the NC max has the only AI gun that has a decent reason to be so limited (it's a shotgun). That seems to make a ton of sense.

    Did I sum it up pretty well?

    So maybe they ought to add a new AI max weapon for longer range? I'm thinking a semi auto, like the s.a. scout rifles? Sucks in CQC due to RoF, but is great at mid. Low fire rate will make every shot count, and prevent it from being OP. Plus, the Max will have to be outside or in a doorway, exposing itself.

    What do you think?
  18. minhalexus

    NC maxes have always been craving for a mid-long range weapon.
    Yes ofcourse i want a new Max AI weapon for longer ranges.

    Though the last part does not make sense, why would a max need to be outdoors to use weapons? will it be solar powered or something?
    • Up x 1
  19. Goretzu

    The major problem (or inequality) is that TR/VS AI MAXs have weapons that get to within a 0.3 second 0m TTK.

    However NC AI MAXs don't get a Blueshift/Mercy equiverlent (the closest is the Mattock with extended mags and slugs - which is a fine [if expensive] weapon, but not an equiverlent in range or flexiblilty).
    • Up x 1
  20. Styrkr

    No, what I mean is that it wouldn't be good for CQC. There aren't really many indoor areas that would benefit from this style of weapon more than traditional AI weapons. So it would mostly be uses against targets who are outside. Since you can't shoot through walls, the Max would have to also be outside or at least in a doorway. Either way it's more exposed than if it were fully indoors.
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