[PSA] 70 Ranks of Infiltrator, a review

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by giltwist, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. giltwist

    This is third (and possibly final) installment of a series I've been doing a while on the State of the Union for Infiltrators. The first two parts are here:

    I've got over 80% playtime in the Infiltrator class, and I primarily play CQC infiltrator. If people find it useful, here is my player stats page. I would normally post this in the Infiltrator forum, but I really wanted to make an impassioned plea to the Devs, and I felt that this would be the best place (not counting Reddit).

    My Playstyle

    So, this is probably the most contentious aspect of the class. What are you even supposed to do? This post will make little to no sense unless you understand why I play and what I enjoy. I've never been at all concerned with K/D. In a world were there is no such thing as permanent death, why even track such a thing? For me, the purpose of the game is to flip hexes in a sort of a three-way shoot-em-up othello. So, I generally spend my time doing one of two things. One, look for a chokepoint that has become a grind and resolve the grind. Two, objective acquisition/denial

    A Long Pause.

    Given that I've been playing since 2012, you might wonder why I'm not BR 100 yet. To be honest, I took an entire year away from the game. It was bad for infiltrators when I left. Veteran players may recall the period when Infiltrators were more like walking smoke than walking glass or when hacking a terminal triggered the base claiming light show. Hackables were being taken out left and right. All in all, there was no reason to play Infiltrator and there was no viable alternative.

    What Works

    I came back for one reason: stalker cloak + activation knife. Oh my Gygax, that is so addictive. I got about half of the way to an Auraxium on the Lumine Edge before I even realized there was other new stuff to try.

    For a while, everything was great! I even started following Directives to expand my skillset. I'm no Mustarde, but the Directives encouraged me to get pretty decent with the iron sights BASR (Ghost for VS). The addition of the Commissioner also made me feel like I could really pull my weight. My main style now is actually to use the Commissioner as my primary (it's almost Auraxiumed!) and only pull out the Ghost for tactical shots. It was the first time I felt like Infiltrator was a sufficiently versatile class to survive between the extreme long distance of sniping and the extreme close-ups of the SMG. The Blackhand with stalker feels great too! The radar deployable is 100% an upgrade over the recon darts, especially now that I've levelled it up.

    What Could Work Better

    The crossbow was another welcome improvement, although I was disappointed with the explosive bolts. I've never really felt like those were useful in the slightest. In general, this is a functional tool but has too narrow a use case, especially with the existence of the Blackhand.

    Proximity mines usually work, but sometimes you wonder how people sneak by without setting them off. I suspect lag issues. A slightly larger detection radius or shorter fuse time without changing the explosion radius might solve that. Bouncing betties seem to have a similar issue, but I've never escaped claymores. I'd recommend making the claymore an NS item, and giving TR something that matches the other two factions.

    What Doesn't Work

    Wow. The list is long.

    Cloaking is almost totally useless right now. Between glitches with darklight (not able to tell when you are hit with one) and deep cloak (sometimes your helmet goes to running-level cloak for no good reason), you might as well not even bother. In this thread, CuteBeaver and I go back and forth about the functional usefulness of the cloak right now. I'll save you the time of reading that thread, as it can be summarized as follows:

    Hacking is almost totally useless now. Many of the terminals are gone, or relocated inside of pain fields so that you can't actually get at them. It is particularly bad on Hossin. There is also a bug that has been around for years where hacking someone out of a base turret lets them kill you before they render to you. Supposedly, you can hack Spitfires, and that'd be nice, but they tend to kill me before I'm even half-way through the hack. Maybe hacking could pause spitfire firing? I could probably chuck an EMP grenade at it to stun during the hack, but that seems like a waste of nanites. In general, the only time its ever worth hacking anything is when you need a sunderer, but it's often less risky to just go back a hex for one.

    Even sniping is iffy, at best. Once upon a time, there was a lot of math done showing how nanoweave 3 is often enough to hard counter even top tier BASRs (VS - parallax) at their intended ranges. Cert bloat has only made that more true. Add in render distance limitations and so forth, there's just no reason to snipe at a distance of greater than 300m, and that is of negligable tactical value unless you are camping a vehicle terminal. I've given up the Parallax almost entirely for the Ghost (Iron Sights). I get my kills reliably, but the recent addition of the Archer... well... that brings me to...

    Just Play an Engineer

    With the exception of 30-kill streaks from cliff-sniping and deploying a radar beacon, the Engineer is a flat upgrade on all fronts now.

    While the Archer cannot OHK infantry, it more than makes up for that in its versatility - maxes, base turrets and even smoking sunderers are all fair game with the archer. It's not like I've not had to use two shots with the Ghost due to a body shot, or gotten used to two-headshot kills ith the commissioner and the blackhand. And it's not like a potshot from the archer won't scare off that cliff sniper anyway. And let's not forget that the AV mana turret is fair at long-distance sniping too.

    Battle rifles (VS - Eidolon) are a HUGE improvement over the infiltator's scout rifle. Love it.

    I still get access to the SMG if I want it, but now I have access to pump action shotguns!

    I get MORE proximity mines thanks to the utility pouch, but who even needs those now that Tank Mines are triggered by MAXes. Hoo! Those bio lab platforms are great for playing Tank Mine frisbee.

    I'll take the sticky grenade over the EMP grenade any day.

    What's that? More health? Yes please!

    What's that, people don't kick me out of their vehicles for being a "useless" class? Heck yeah!

    Repair XP comes in faster and more steadily than motion detect XP and all of the Engineer deployables have very strong use cases.

    TL;DR

    Anything Infiltrator can do, the Engineer does better. The few niches the Infiltrator does have are bug-ridden or increasingly obsolete. My score per minute as an engineer is almost 100 higher in just a couple weeks than my infiltrator has EVER been after years, and I've yet to run into any bugs specific to the class.
  2. Iridar51

    I'm not sure how you made it to BR70 without knowing this, but you can move while hacking, without interrupting the process, as long as you stay close enough to the object. So you can move out of Spitfire's firing angle while hacking, as it has low turning speed.
  3. Taemien


    I really wish you embellished on this a little more. Did you go with a squad, platoon? Were they PUGs, outfitmates, or statics?

    When I play PS2 its usually with a static squad of RL friends (grew up with one, and served in the army with the others). So we know how to get the business done most of the time (when we aren't dinking around).

    The infiltrator in my experience sucks at the following:

    1. Farming kills
    2. Solo play.
    3. Large Scale Play (to some degree).

    So what is it good at? Well when you don't have one, being the one guy playing them is great. The recon darts are just sweet. Sure the engineer can put out infitite of them. But When you run a small squad like I do, I need another gun 90% of the time, not some dude refreshing darts. So I want max rank darts so they can be put out and forgotten about for a bit.

    Getting a look. This seems to be what the class was designed for Active Camouflage, long or short range burst damage, and sensors. Its also got the flash cloak going for it.

    But why play it over any other class? The short answer is, if you have to ask this, then move along, play another class. The long answer is, use it for what its designed to do. But don't try to force it into a role its not.

    Cloak. I wish they would change the name of this ability to Active Camo. That's what Cloak is. Its not invisibility. Its not meant to make you disappear. For god's sake its not Cover, but a method of Concealment. What that means is it does what any other Camo does. Breaks up your outline, makes you harder to hit, and obscures your position.

    At no point should you EVER use cloak, deep cloak, stalker cloak, or any form of cloak in a manner that you would use Stealth or Invisibility in MMORPGs. That's where people think it needs buffs, is glitchy, or simply doesn't work for them. Hate to say it, but you all are using it wrong.

    You should use it when:

    You want to be harder to see or hit at long range.
    You want to disappear off the minimap and cancel q-spotting
    You want to obscure your location.

    Always assume that if the enemy has Line of Sight to you that he can see you, cloaked or not. So if you're infiltrating up close, you need to hide behind crates, walls, and other obstructions. Act as if you don't even have cloak and hide like you would if you didn't have it.

    You have access to high burst damage weapons. Sniper Rifles and SMGs. Use them in their effective ranges. Sure other classes have access to them, as well but you have the tools to come around from another angle AND know where they are at.

    That is the difference between LA and Infil. A light assault can't know what's inside a building before he jumps in. An infil can. You can pick the engagement. So pick the engagement that is favorable to you.

    "But I need those extra HP."

    In this case by all means... play another class. If you need the HP then you don't need to play the infil for what you are doing. This is a very specialized class used for certain situations. You can pick another class at ANY time so that means if you don't need to be an infil, DON'T select it.

    So you're probably wondering, when do I use the infil?

    I use it when I need a particular person dead. Maybe its a medic or engie. Or a heavy lodged in a tight spot. Or another infil using stalker and being squirrelly in my base. I'll take the infil out and hunt what it is I need to hunt down. Usually SMG and CQC when I do that. But for engires on Turrets, T3 BASR or in my case Railjack is my tool of choice. I can drop them before they get off the turret.

    If I want to tactically troll someone at a vehicle terminal. Dick move? Sure. But sometimes I want someone angry at me. Angry enemies make mistakes. Angry enemies hunt me down. Angry enemies hunting me are ignoring my teammates. Sometimes I'll snipe just to encourage my enemies to counter snipe. Then when they get set upon by my shotgun/SMG toting squadmates they'll regret dueling me.

    I use it when working a biolab with a 4 man squad. Need high burst to take down people and I want to be able to obscure my movements in case I'm spotting. There's other bases that require this, but the details are beyond the scope of this thread.

    I've got a use for the Infil. Its great at what it does. I'd hate to see changes to it that may make it strong in one area and weaker in another, homogenizing it with the LA. LA's are good at what they do. Infils do something different.

    The issue the OP has is he's comparing it to other classes. You can't do that. You have to think outside the box. Think past the Holy Trinity you see in MMO's. And like I said.. if you can't find a use for the infil, you're better off selecting another class. It means you don't need the infil for what you plan to do.

    Don't force the infil into a role its not meant to be in. And don't misuse cloak. You will be a much happier player.
  4. Demigan

    I'm sorry but while there's a few bugs around, you make the Infiltrator seem 50 times worse than it is.

    The Cloaking issues? I rarely have problems with it. One reason is that I don't wait to find out if someone can see my cloak or not. In most cases I attack, and I attack hard. This is also why the Infiltrator is a completely independent class from the Engineer: It can cloak, avoid fire and come at you when it suits you rather than the enemy. You might not always be 100% ready for an attack, but if you time it right your enemy will always be at a disadvantage. You just can't do that with the Engineer, more proxy mines and more CQC weapons or no.
    Hacking? It's never not been useful. Hacking terminals is only useful during some tight teamplay, or when you need a quick vehicle spawn to help a capture. Otherwise, it's base-turrets all the way. I've stopped Vehicle Zergs by hacking turrets and shooting them in the back, or taken out a bunch of aircraft that came for repairs and ammo. Hell, I've had half a dozen ESF start a constant watch around bases simply because I could be there to kill them with an SMG or pistol as they land for repairs.

    Sniping? Still powerful, "don't bother at more than 300m"? The game has supported a max render distance of 300m for most of it's existence. Snipers are powerful at what they do, and seeing that many bases are not much more than 300m apart from each other I would say Snipers can have more than enough fun.

    The Archer? This weapon has a bolt-action time longer than some weapons reloads, and needs a 3-shot kill, and can't really OHK infantry with headshots. It's not good against any vehicle with even remotely good armor, your example of the smoking Sunderer only shows how much you haven't used it. 1500 shots, 61% accuracy and 34 kills? I should think that's enough of an indication for you.
    The Eidolon Battle Rifle? You have 16 kills with it but claim it's waaaaaaaaaaaay better than any Scout rifle. However, you miss how the Cloaker can have an affinity with Scout rifles due to it's cloak. Personally I really enjoyed the semi-auto Scout Rifle, and much more than the Battle rifles which I only found useful in support situations at medium range.

    The Sticky grenade is one of the most powerful grenades in the game, comparing that to any other grenade is completely ridiculous. Still, the EMP grenade is undeniably powerful with it's instant-detonation, 100% effect throughout it's large AOE and the ability to get relatively close before detonating this thing without any way to reduce the damage, except for the implant that nobody ever uses.

    Your score-per-minute difference is only due to playstyle. I have a bit more than 300 points per minute on my Engineer, and 330 on my infiltrator. You score 177 points per minute on your infiltrator... Change your playstyle, you don't have to stop complaining about bugs but while they are there, avoid them! Cloak is not build to avoid people at close ranges unless you stand still for an hour, it never has been in this game and with some of the bugs, why would you even try to rely on them? Just stop relying on it so much! Use it to get close, and abuse the tiny switching moment people have when they switch from "looking for stealth shimmer" to "shooting at decloaked enemy". Hell, by decloaking and cloaking constantly while changing direction constantly you can even confuse people and cause them to miss more than if you ran around cloaked! Get in a comfortable range for your weapon with that cloak and kill someone, rather than use it as some kind of 100% invisibility from all. I don't have problems with darklights because by the time they might want to pull one, they are dead. (Or I'm a heap of bullet holes with meat around it, your choice, but at least I tried to defend myself)
    • Up x 4
  5. Imp C Bravo

    What this guy said. He gets it.
  6. giltwist

    Lately, I have mostly played solo. However, I have been a member in two different outfits. One small, the other large.

    1) So the "dedicated anti-infantry" class that most people say shouldn't have the Archer is bad at being anti-infantry? That makes sense.
    2) All of the classes should be good at solo play.
    3) Wait, you can't play in a Platoon either? What trolling is this?

    First of all, the PS2 trailer is very clearly displaying invisibility for the infiltrator. Second of all, it's a real shame that the mods deleted Dr. Euthenasia's classic thread "Why Hunter Stealth is trash and you shouldn't tolerate it." The gist of that article was that Infiltrator cloak has EVERY disadvantage ever used in a video game all at the same. Thirdly, cloak is VERY buggy on a regular basis. It's not even "active camo" reliably.

    Nobody would ever say the same thing about being a Heavy, Medic or Engineer. When DON'T you need one of those three? Even light assaults are needed most of the time. It makes no sense to have one class be useful only rarely.

    Except that an engineer is just as good or better than an infiltrator than that pretty much in all cases except getting rid of a cliff sniper. Plus, with the flow of combat being as fast as it is, why would you go all the way back to a class terminal to take out ONE guy? He's dead or gone well before you get back.




    Does a Light Assault's jetpack randomly stop working 100m up? No. Does an engineer's MANA turret randomly decide not to fire? No. The CORE mechanic of infiltrator is regularly and heavily broken.


    You are lucky then. Prominent members of the infiltrator community such as CuteBeaver regularly do. Even Mustarde has been trying Heavy lately.

    First of all, the Archer hasn't been out all that long. Do you expect me to have auraxiumed it already? Secondly, it's not a weapon for kills so much as it is for assists and turret popping. It's WAY more useful to take out that base turret than it is to take out a heavy or two.

    I don't have to use it much to know that its stats are better and that it's sufficiently better that I can tell after only about an hour of gameplay with it.

    You really can't get XP with the EMP grenade, and its effects last a whopping two seconds. It's really only useful for messing with mana turrets or clearing a room of proxy mines.


    I play CQC infiltrator...I have for years. Without ANY change in playstyle, Engineer has suddenly become far more viable due to the addition of the Archer and that Tank Mines are set off by maxes. I've been mostly satisfied with infiltrator up until now. I've even spent lots of money on the game. My issue is that the state of infiltrator RIGHT NOW basically says that I should shift to engineer because it's objectively better at something that has been an infiltrator niche for ages.
  7. Jubikus

    Tho i agree with most of what you had to say this little bit iffy change what you enjoy because its bugged isnt really ok if it worked as intended and he was having issues with it well that would be one thing but it just not working as intend and screwing him over well thats another thing. Is it really to much to ask for something to just work?

    I also disagree with the statement of cloak not being built for close range tho i agree it isnt for hunter well stalker and nano armor most definitely are. The much higher level of stealth stalker gives you for trading in your primary weapon has little use outside of close range. Nano armor cloaking is for smg infiltrators which is also close range.

    The bugs with stalker cloaking are probibly the only reason i dont really use it at all it would be fun if it worked properly but it doesnt and on top of that its the only ability in the game that has a hard counter in the form of a darklight flashlight (immagine a weapon attachment of nano piercing rounds to bypass heavy shield ability)

    I honestly think stalker should be 100% invisible while sitting still because well dark light can find you, you dont have a primary weapon, and your an infiltrator which has 100 less effective health that all the other classes so it would still be just a gimmick and its not that hard to stick a dark light on your sidearm
  8. Taemien

    No class is good at solo play. You can't reliably take a base solo. This is a MMOFPS.

    Not in one that doesn't need one. 1-2 per squad isn't bad depending on the goal. Depends on what the squad/platoon leaders want.

    I have not changed how I have used it in the 2 and a half years I've been playing and have not ever been killed because it 'failed' or 'glitched'. But I've never used it as invisibility either. Everytime I've been killed as an infil its because I was either out played, or did something stupid.

    I would not bring in the opening video as a basis. Otherwise.. all the exploits of the LA throughout the video should be possible too. Its entertaining. sure, but hardly a balance point.

    Ironically enough, I will use my infiltrator in my static squad more often than I will my heavy assault. Heavies are too slow and cumbersome. LMGs have the lowest burst damage in the game unless you go shotgun. I also don't use engineer when I don't need the ammo and other goodies it gives. I think we can agree that Medics are used as often as they need to be.

    This is a product of base design. The bases are designed where most ranges of firefights happen in the range bracket that Carbines edge out SMGs. So you do have to find a means to get closer while avoiding detection.

    My advice is play through 70 BR's of Engineer if you feel its a better fit. You might just like it. I don't like playing LA much (despite being alright with it) even though its an effective class. Its just not my bag. I like infil for the stuff I use it for. Just because its not a great fit doesn't mean its broken.
    • Up x 1
  9. giltwist

    Then why even bring it up as something infiltrators can't do? Clearly, your original argument is that infiltrators suck at solo play more than every other class. I stand by my assertion that I should not have to be in an Outfit or a PUG to enjoy my experience. I further stand behind my assertion that all classes should be in roughly the same league on this front.


    What, like being able to take out air? There's several gameplay videos of people with drifter jets and C4 bailing from their ESF to take out enemy air. Overall, the original trailer is fairly accurate in its depiction except for infiltrators. The OHK knives and stalker cloak bring it a lot closer, but it's not great.


    Ding ding ding! We have a winner. You are starting to hear what I have to say. Bugs aside, it's not that infiltrators are bad. A big part of my complaint is that every iteration of base redesign makes the gameplay worse for infiltrators. Have you TRIED hacking a vehicle terminal on Hossin? Half of the bases there have gigantic pain fields. You can't even get close to the vehicle terminal. Additionally, revisions to other classes (especially Engineer) are making them increasingly attractive. My argument is that infiltrators are becoming obsolete. There's an argument to be made that a LA with a Blackhand can do as well for staying out of sight and 2HKing as a hunter Infiltrator with a Semi Auto weapon, as well. Hell, a LA with Icarus jets and adrenaline pump is RIDICULOUSLY mobile.
  10. Iridar51

    Well, actually... :rolleyes:
    It's nowhere near as bad as with cloak, but the jet pack did have a couple of bugs. The first bug is from around early 2013, when the jet pack used to randomly disable itself until relogin. The second bug was very persistent, and was finally fixed only recently, when the jet pack disabled itself for a few seconds when throwing a grenade.
  11. Iridar51

    Well said, gonna quote you for my gunplay guide, if you don't mind.
  12. Taemien


    I don't mind.
    • Up x 1
  13. Booface

    You can also just use an EMP.
  14. Zeiban

    Good info. Only 83% how about 94% :)
    Glad to see some as dedicated to INF as I am.
  15. Demigan

    I never said that I enjoy it while it's bugged. What I meant was that it's bugged, keep that in mind while playing. What I also meant was that even when it isn't bugged, this still isn't an invisibility module but a very good camouflage, nothing more! Using it in any other way is asking for getting killed.

    It's for getting in close range, it's not build to keep you safe while inside close range. You'll still need cover, movement and the right situational awareness to remain undetected. Then once you are in close range, you can start firing, using your cloak to keep out of sight a tiny sliver of a second longer than uncloaked classes would.

    You mean EMP grenades? They are the most direct hard-counter. Also the two aren't exactly comparable, as the Heavy shield expends energy to nullify hits while Stealth is used to avoid it but won't protect you should you be discovered.

    I love having something else on my side-arm than Darklight. I survive many more fights by equipping a Laser sight on it for emergencies than a Darklight, so I'll have to let those few times I could use a Darklight pass. I do have a few loadouts with it, but I only change to it when I know there's one nearby that could be tough to track down normally.
  16. Demigan

    It's not regularly and heavily broken, which is why I say you make it seem 50 times worse than it is. The only way this is heavily broken is if you use it as invisibility. It's a very effective camouflage, but it's bugged to sometimes mess with that and make you more visible. That should be fixed, sure! But your game will probably only improve 10% or less if these bugs are fixed, while my own gameplay... won't improve a bit, because my gameplay doesn't rely on it as a stealth module and I'll be revealed so rarely by the bugs I can discount them.

    Bottom line: You are relying on something that even when fixed is not intended to be used that way.

    It took me 4 pages on the infiltrator forums to find the first posts complaining about the bug, and funnily enough most people say it's not a big deal. The Helmet bug is back, and sometimes your weapon remains more visible, but it all seems to stem from the visibility change to make invisibility equally visible on all settings.
    Still, anyone with a big monitor will be able to see you at 150+m when you are moving, or at 50+m when you are deep-cloaked even without the bugs. It's a night and day difference between the monitor I use and another one I sometimes watch clips I made back on.
    Which is why I'll say it again: you act like it's a stealth, while you should be acting like its a really good camouflage and nothing more. Removing the bugs won't make it that much better for you.

    And your point is...? That it outperforms the Infiltrator in taking out turrets? Well you got that right! Because the infiltrator doesn't have anti-turret weapons!
    Well, you can hack turrets, then let enemies destroy them or shoot other turrets with it... But in no single way does this mean that the Archer is much better than the Infiltrator arsenal. They are different weapons, one is for AV and anti-MAX work, one is for anti-infantry.

    The way you are playing? Sure! You seem to be getting kills twice as fast with it. But you also get half the points I do per minute... Which is why I'll say this also again: Change your playstyle. I bet that if you change it, you could match the Battle Rifle with ease.

    ....
    ....

    wait, what? "lasts a whopping 2 seconds"? You do realize that a shield recharges after 10 seconds? That Infiltrators have a 10 second window to mow-down any player caught in the blast? That it's advantages mean it's much, much better than for instance Flash, smoke, decoy, heal, and depending on how you use it frag grenades?
    "You can't really get XP with it"? Well, you can't really get XP with flash, smoke and decoy grenades either, because some grenades are tools that can aid you in getting XP, rather than giving direct XP. You think that if you EMP a flying LA, that you don't get the XP after he drops on the ground and can be killed with a single bullet? Or when you EMP a Heavy and drain his shield and energy, that you can't get the XP after ramming what, 70% off of his total health&shield pool and decreasing his vision?


    Killing MAX's and AV work? How can you compare a CQC Infiltrator to an Engineer that you equip with an Archer and AV mines? They have completely different combat styles and roles in the game, use them as such! You don't use the Engineer for CQC stealth do you? You don't use the Infiltrator for AV do you? Even when you do use the Infiltrator for AV, it's either by sniping the drivers when they get out, or hacking AV turrets, or by hacking a terminal and spawning a vehicle. The Engineer has direct damage against vehicles: Archer, which only deals a tiny damage against heavily armed vehicles (your entire ammo capacity for a Lightning? That's more than a minute of firing man!), The AV turret, tank mines that you need to put down in their path, C4... The only thing where they overlap a little is they both have AI mines, but the infiltrator is much better suited to place them and is more often in the need of a mine to keep his back safe while he's working on something else like hacking.
  17. Jubikus


    Thx for the clarification it is indeed a good idea to keep in mind that someone may see you.

    Emp grenades are a pretty good counter for heavy assults the only drawbacks are that well you have to toss a grenade and well you cant shoot while doing that i can shoot while my gun has a darklight on it.
    Agreed the two are a bad comparison a fallacy if you will the point i was terribly was trying to get across is its kind of BS stalker cloaking already makes you trade in your primary weapon in addition to infiltrators in general having 100 less effective health baseline than all the other classes and theres also an item attachment that you can get for your gun thats only role is to counter this ability.

    yeah i agree for most classes but when i run around on my heavy i have this on there because i dont use the damn thing i have a ton of bullets in my primary i dont use it (currently running around with the flaregun tho -yay victory fireworks-).



    In the end thees are my view on the abilities and such im not a developer i dont know what they were actually trying to pull off i can only guess by what they are and are not effective at
    • Up x 1
  18. Jubikus



    Ehhh i can agree with your statement in the idea of hunter cloaking but let me clarify why i disagree with the other 2.
    Stalker cloaking you trade you primary for much better cloak in the form of deep cloak which is damn near invisible when not bugged this only has a use inside bases i base this on the fact that your limited to a sidearm which at least when stalker was released were not good for range and then a knife and grenade. Tho it is a good idea to use good positioning like using cover in addition to stalker its still kind of meant for that in there screwing with their stuff role.

    With Nano armor cloaking the stealth aspect i agree is only meant to get you close to the base however the point of it and why smg infiltrators tend to take this over hunter cloaking is the damage reduction aspect. Smgs can only take out 1 to 2 people then you have to reload the cloak is used to give you that extra survivablity to get to cover to reload or excape completely its a damage reduction buff its not really used for its stealth aspect so i believe its meant for close range.
  19. CuteBeaver

    Goodnews there is a fix to the Darklight bug in the works.

    For those who don't know - Since April any darklight pulled farther then 5 meters from your client would not render. This made it possible to easily paint infils with the darklight and they would have no idea they had been compromised. Only when checking the deathscreen would they be able to spot the attachment in the killers loadout. I'v seen several threads on reddit complaining about this, and took about 4 hours of my time to sort out why the bug was happening.

    I'm overjoyed its going to be squished very soon. Like the OP i typically work indoors, and so a bug like this was absolutely brutal.

    Next on my list to check is the spotting bug, which allows enemies to "spot" cloaked infils and shout out vocally to watch their six. (Even though no mini-map marker is placed) This makes it possible for enemies to "scan" around the room like sonar and locate us even without needing a Darklight. This one isn't as bad since at least the enemies literally tell you when they have detected you. That does to some extent give you the opportunity to react in some form against them.
  20. Demigan

    How about this for a balance change:
    I don't think the Stalker should force you to forfeit your primary weapon. Instead, choose one of the following:
    Option 1: Longer recharge time. When standing still cloaked and recharging, your recharge takes much longer than it does now. Also, cloak while moving has an increased drain rate. This makes it tough to do long stretches cloaked, but does give you the option to remain cloaked permanently. You get your primary weapon back for this, but despite your permanent cloak you'll have a tough time during travel.
    Ofcourse, if the drain rate is high enough the current recharge rate can stay the same or visa-versa.

    Option 2: Increased damage while cloaked. This can be done by deactivating the shield, or by simply increasing damage received (not necessarily halving your health though! that's too much). Additionally other disadvantages can be build in, such as again a faster drain rate when moving, or a slower recharge rate. Again, you get your primary weapon back.

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