6 months later...... only slight changes to MAX (cont)

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Blackfire1, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Blackfire1

    This was a discussion thread I started during beta to talk about the horrible balancing of the MAX suits verses... everything.
    They gave max's a minor update since two weeks ago. Since I've got to play around with all but the NC's weapons I'll update my posting.

    BEFORE Official Lauch (last few months closed beta)
    -MAX's had low HP and could be gunned down by anything.
    -No damage mitigation. They are walking talks but everything does max damage.
    -Slow: No Auto-run and charge was limited in its use.
    -AI weapons were VASTLY inaccurate even at close range (Not counting scatter max)
    "=>The Vanu's weapons felt like a rapid fire musket gun. The TR's felt like you were tickling them to death.
    -No empire specific abilities. No shields. No Lock Downs. No jump jets. Nothing that makes the MAX unique.
    -AA weapons were the only good weapon. They felt right. Did a balanced amount of damage. Had drop and needed to be aimed. They fit their roll. Also in a pinch could be used as an AI weapon but even less accurate then the AI's.
    - AV weapons were changed into something that was STILL less then useful when compared to the HA's rockets.
    Vanu was slow as hell, but felt like the shots mattered. TR's grenades are.... not fun to use. I rather spam an area with them then only have two shots that do Meh damage.
    -CQC was a pointless affair. We couldn't do anything because of shotguns, Stealthers, accuracy issues, and having less armor then a engi. >.< (I'll note its not that we had less HP. It was that we were big targets that are slow and a single person could rip us to shreds.)
    -Are nothing like the PS1 version of the Max suit. Which was a shame as the PS1 version was the most balanced of any unit in PS.

    AFTER LAUNCH (Currently)
    -MAX's got either alot more HP or a damage mitigation buff. Nothing listed in patch notes. You last a little longer. Giving you time to aim. However suit perks do not currently work (Never did in the first place).
    -Accuracy and speed for all AI weapons was BUFFED! WOOHOO! Damage was lowered..... ****.
    This leaves the idea of running as a hybrid totally out of the question as you need to run Dual weapons to get any kills at mid range.

    -Still slow: However it looks like we got a secondary run speed buff when sprinting for more then 6 seconds... or maybe it just takes us that long to get to normal speed. STILL NO TRAVEL MODE. :(
    - Abilities are still non-existent. TR even have the lock down animation and graphics in their suit... but no perk or button to use them.
    -AA weapons nerfed. Spread was increased. Damage was lowered. Projectile Speed was increased. Pilots no longer have to worry about 1-2 AA MAX's. 3+ maybe alittle.
    -AV weapons don't feel like they have a punch. HA is still better. Vanu at least move faster now.
    -Still nothing like the PS1 MAX's. Seriously... The MAX suit in PS1 was something feared but easily taken out.
    The current max is only feared if you go toe to toe or are not an HA. Hell I see shotgun ninjas still taking them out. :\
    -Customization sucks... You have to buy into the other weapon types to be effective. That's just bad planning right there.

    Its sad it took them over 6-7 months to do anything for the MAX suit. These are not unknown issues. They've known since spring.
    I'm not holding my breath for any more updates.
    • Up x 1
  2. Blackfire1

    So I played a bit more.
    AA max's are borked unless in large groups. This means that a single AA max vs any aircraft 1v1 will not only get decimated... but they don't even do enough damage to make the Pilot think twice. AA max's are suppose to be a deterrent. And more so a single AA gun should be enough to support that role. Dual AA guns should be the exception. Not the rule.
    • Up x 1
  3. Bloodburn

    maxes need tougher armor, or at least lower the cost of kinetic armor or buff its % mitigation by a lot, say +10% each rank.

    maxes need MORE weapons, more types, flamethrower that lights people on fire for a damage over time effect, poison grenade launcher mod, how about a head seeking hand cannon with large reload time? Also ammo types. armor piercing, faster ammo or flaming ammo.

    maxes need their empire specific ability! vanu jump jets that can damage vehicles and kill infantry by landing on them, TR lockdown (adds double armor and double fire rate), NC shield ability that adds a 3rd bar above their armor!

    maxes need better decal placement. I rank up and slap a decal on and it goes on my shoulderblade? half of it covered up by my TR backpack thing? wtf. make it more visible lol

    Maybe make the ground shake a little when they walk by too lol.
    • Up x 1
  4. Apollyn

    Im certainly not an expert but I'm enjoying my MAX more and more. In a squad working together they are insane. The Vanu MAX with AI weapons is a savage CQB opponent with a squad. I can tank damage, I decimate infantry and all is good.

    Outside of building fights its long range accuracy is awful but given the low speed I wouldnt want ot travel in open terrain much anyway.

    Vanu AV is OK. It does low damage at extreme accuracy, no bullet drop but it takes a while to deliver the kill. Im under the impression Vanu has the best AV due to this accuracy.

    AA my MAX is nothing more than a deterrent. I can count my burster kills on one hand. I can easily scare away flying enemies from my squad but I cant often kill them unless they are foolish.
  5. Blackfire1

    The patch before launch the Buster was the only weapon that was decent. It could kill if the pilot was dumb. It took skill to use. Limited ammo ect ect. Then they nerfed it and buffed the planes ability to take flak style damage....

    Well not all the weapons suck.
    The AI weapons don't suck as much as they did before launch. But they still are nothing compared to the HA.
    AV weapons also get nerfed or changed every few patches.
    • Up x 1
  6. Deschain

    This heaviest of armor entombs a soldier beneath layers and layers of hardened armor and its weapons are built into the arms of the suit, making them very stable firing platforms. Slow in reaction speed, but powerful in almost every other way, the mech assault suits are lynchpins of most military actions.

    The Starfire weapons platform on the VS Starfire MAX can home in on Aircraft as long as the operator can maintain targeting the craft in his reticule. Combined with the same type of aggravated 'burning' damage as the VS Comet projectile gives the Starfire MAX the ability to quickly take down enemy aircraft. As with the other VS MAX'es, the anti-gravitic jump system allows the VS Starfire MAX to move to locations with startling speed.

    This is all i require, no gadgets no toys, just a Max unit that does its job. Why SOE think the current max is any good is beyond reasoning and common sence.
  7. brilig

    As it stands the Max does need some tweaking to be brought in line with the rest of the units in the game. I think the easiest way to bring the Max into line would be to be increase it's movement speed, give it an over shield like infantry have, and bring its anti infantry weapons in line with the HA class main weapon.

    Mild disclaimer: I am speaking from limited perspective. Outside of beta I have only used the TR Max, and I do not yet have duel AI weapons. My opinion might change once I get two AI weapons, but judging from the other posts that still wont be enough. Also ignoring the AV issues because there is a thread dedicated to that.

    A lot of people want a HP/bullet resistance buff for the Max, but I can see where this would cause problems. I think the main issues with that buff is that it would force players to change classes in order to deal with the Max. Some people like to play a certain class, and it would suck for them to have to switch to HA every time they run across a Max. If the Max becomes immune to bullets, even with a heavy increase to the resource cost you will see many, many more of them. So I understand that why they have not just been made tougher.

    There is not a lot you can do about the Max's size except give them a small over shield. That way every hit it takes doesn't immediately do damage out of the health pool making it weaker, and weaker unless there is an engineer with it. This will make it a little easier to close with the enemy without being near dead by the time the Max gets there. Since it can't take cover as well as regular infantry.

    I say increase its base movement speed. Right now infantry can run rings around a Max unit. That leaves the Max unit with no choice but to take whatever fire is coming at it, and try and return fire as best it can. The problem here is that in any situation where the Max doesn't surprise someone at hugging distance the Max is at a pretty big disadvantage. The infantry have all the speed and can use it to control the engagement with the Max. About all the Max can do is try to put it's back in a corner, or hope to surprise infantry up close. If the Max is a little faster it can back out of a bad situation, or give chase and make it harder for enemy infantry to kite it to death.

    Give the Max some decent weapons. Honestly you will probably have to take away the Max's ability too duel wield the same type of weapon so that balance can be achieved. Give them and arm for AI, and one that can be AV or AA. Make the AI weapons similar to the HA class's main weapon. Give the Max a decent ability at mid range. It doesn't need to be a 300 meter head shot machine. But it should be able to reliably engage, and kill at least at 100 meters. Right now the max effective range feels like 20 meters. Every other class in the game has the ability to engage a Max way outside of the Max's effective range. If the Max can shoot back it can at least make people take cover instead of letting them stand out in the open and shoot with impunity.

    It also kills me that a Max has to run around with an engineer like a heavy weapons guy/medic combo from TF2. No other class has to run around with someone holding their hand. Yes Max is more effective in a squad, but what class isn't? Give the Max an over shield, more speed, and a more accurate weapon. Let the class have some independence, and flexibility.
  8. DeadlyShoe

    I think they are specifically designed to be dependent and inflexible.

    They are excellent squad tools but kinda crappy otherwise. Until we started running galaxy MAX drops my (small) outfit thought the MAXes were useless. As shock units they are working just fine.

    I think MAXes should be a little less vulnerable from the front than they are now but more vulnerable from the rear, it would make sense.
  9. Blackfire1

    MAX suits should be their own unqie play style. They should be walking ******* tanks. They should be the kings of CQC. Since thats the only ******* range that matters.
    So I've spent the last week running max suit after max suit. Wana know what I figured out?


    Yea... your spread is about 5% wider, your range is NOT as far as you can see air craft. And the speed of the AA's shot was halfed.
    So now MAX suits are 100% utterly ******* useless. It was bad enough AI was in the shapes its been in for the last 9 months. AV was never good to begin with.
    Now the only thing the Max had going (Its AA) Is ****.
    OH and they nerfed its damage compared to the composite armor? **** it. I'm done. I've given months of my life trying to balance MAX suits. SOE just ***** that input and ALL the input from other max players into the wind.
  10. Blackfire1

    A entire squad of max's shouldn't be god mode in any right. But seriously... the Planetside 1 version of the PRE-BFR MAX was almost perfect. Specialized. Balanced. And FUN.
  11. kukuman

    buff maxes until they are bullet proof and vulnerable to AV

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