485 KPH - Acceptable or Not? You choose. A must read!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by repinSniper, May 28, 2014.

  1. repinSniper

    To start, what vehicle do you think can even possibly attain this speed? If you guessed Mag-rider, you are close *just kidding, but damn those flying mags!*, but no cigar. I bet you think you got it right with the ESF, due to it's agility. Again, wrong answer. It is, wait for it, the Liberator!

    Recently, on my pursuit to purge the skies with my trusty Reaver, wingmates, and almost auraxiumed lock-ons *O god heaven forbid it, he said naughty words just now!*, I personally have noticed some very agile and skilled two man liberator crews. Many of these crews mean death when they have you in their beads as an ESF, and must be handled like the Kraken of the Deep, by either avoiding them or attacking them with appropriate force and numbers *usually they are not alone either!!! HOW COULD THEY DO SUCH A THING AS BRING FRIENDS!!! *

    All but the most nimble or numerous slowly succumb to the shots fired as they either flee or stand their ground *often taking a few of us out on their way to the grave, or the redeploy screen *. But some seem to defy logic, not with their MLGprostatus Dalton shots or presicion tankbusts (even though they are amazing!), but more so with the ability to some how slip out of the grasp of our sights at a ridiculous terminal velocity in the direction of retreat or relative safety.

    Not until recently (today) had I put two and two together and realized that when this happens, the pilot is not actually piloting any more, but leaves an empty first seat to go to the belly or tail. This action combined with the proper altitude, directional facing, angle of decent (be it belly up, belly/tail half-up, or straight forwards), and proper application of afterburners (yes, afterburners are ideal here for many reasons), followed by the swapping out and back into the pilot seat at the right times (while not causing inherent momentum to spin the plane in free fall), will cause the Liberator to attain unbelievably quick breakneck vector velocities.

    Upon measuring some of the values (and for sure I am not nearly the best liberator pilot, but still knowledgeable and above average in my mind *lol. keep thinking that buddy*), I had found that top speeds of 380-400 KPH on the dashboard of my liberator in first person were easily attained by even the most botched attempt I could do (and boy did I *#$^ some of of them up). Even with High-G airframe or Precision, I was able to reach top speeds of nearly 450 KPH. I noticed that flipping upside down seemed to help with attaining that speed, but the time it took to actually flip was longer then the advantages of not having the disorientation or altitude unawareness as well as minor overall velocity improvements. A slight tilt to provide the Dalton easy shots for bee-lining ESFs trying to chase was determined by myself to be the best compromise with little velocity reduction and quick implementation times.

    This testing caused me to dump 700 cert's into Racer... due to VR having a flight ceiling of.... and I found that on my first try 480 KPH terminal vector velocity was attainable. Not until two tests later did I "cap" out at 485 KPH. The problem here was not that I had learned how to do an old trick, but that when I researched the topic, no matter how hard I investigated, NOTHING of relation in a straightforward format came to light. This is commonly done with variation and well known *without the empty pilot seat that is*, but no literature or posts were close to summarize this "Phenomega"-nom... *lol, semi-obscure references*. Was and is this hidden knowledge among elite pilots? We will soon find out. Will this cause a nerf bat mob or will it be welcomed with open arms? Again, we will Soon(TM) find out...

    The fact is, swapping to the tail or belly seat and leaving the pilot seat open allows the liberator to maintain forward velocity with no reduction or acceleration in any forward or reverse vector. What does take place though (which if it did not, the vehicle would maintain constant vector velocity) is what we can consider gravitational acceleration. When placed on a parabolic decent with no previous upward velocity or acceleration (which stalls the maneuver for a few seconds and reduces overall attained max velocity) with no or minor tendency to spin out at a -10º to -75º angle relative to ground from high or moderate altitude (the higher the *better/faster/longer...*), and seats are swapped, the Liberator will increase its velocity downwards at a constant acceleration rate; this creates another velocity vector that is slowly increasing towards the ground while maintaining a constant forward velocity vector. The sum of these vectors is what you see in the cockpit speedometer.

    Remember, when the seat is swapped, you maintain your forward velocity until you re-*pilot* the Liberator. This means if you attained top afterburner speed and swapped seats, that will exist until the end of the "maneuver" when you regain control. While in the decent, your afterburner is also refilling; if done properly, you will have a full bar to use at your disposal the instant you regain control for three seconds of top speed with a moderate deceleration to normal speed after exhausted (double whammy!). When used in conjunction with groups of individuals just itching to get the heck out of dodge at the first sign of abnormal danger, there is very little that can be done to chase effectively.

    Due to the fact that terminal velocity of vector magnitude is ignored without our trusty pilots in the seat, is this an oversight, a bug, a feature, an exploit, or is it unknown? Also noticed was that ability to survive the 400+ KPH decent by smacking into the ground on the belly and not flipping to burn to death (this has been observed before, and I believe is common but still obscure knowledge) *damage was taken in all tested landings like this but no OHK from full HP unless it slid into a bump or other obstacle*

    PS- I also tested this in a High-G Galaxy *not racer...sadly* and obtained 405 KPH, faster then the fastest Racer 3 Afterburning Reaver speed obtainable of 399-400 KPH.

    Also to those who use this already, now's the time to speak up. I did not discover this on my own at all, it was all my observations of your actions when I was interacting with you in the air! (I'm talkin' to you, speedy!)

    Now I leave it up to the masses: Discuss, debate, video capture, question, defend, attack, make jokes, rant, praise me *<= hint hint, I jest*, sacrifice the bearer of the news (NO PLZ NO), and determine what I could not in my limited experiences. This topic is not for those faint of heart *or faint of flying skillz*, but I implore you:

    • Up x 20
  2. FaLI3N

    I have known about it for a while but kept my trap shut because I didn't see many libs doing it and if they did it wasn't a regular occurrence. They are bad enough as is, I am not going to give them more tricks to ruin every fight with.
    • Up x 1
  3. repinSniper

    ... Sorry to ruin their or your fun by making it public if that's the case :eek: ;) ...
  4. FaLI3N

    Not my fun, I hate those jerks :p Every time something like this happens people start to try to do it though.. like when people whinge about rocket primaries.. now they are more prevalent than ever.
    • Up x 1
  5. repinSniper

    Well given the complexity in nature of this to perfect... expect a lot of craters. :):D:):D *I know from experience.....*
  6. Trebb

    Hopefully more people do this, and the Lib farmers get rightfully nerfed.

    I quit the game at the height of the ZOE fiasco, but came back the day after they were nerfed. I'm about to do the same w/ the Liberator spam. Flame away, but I play for fun, not to be an NPC on the ground for you to farm.

    Oh well, at least I made it to BR100 this time! =D
    • Up x 3
  7. repinSniper

    By doing some "Vector Math" with Forward velocity as X and Vertical velocity as Y with Total Velocity vector as R *seen on the speedometer*, we can model it like so: R = sqrt(X^2 + Y^2)

    Assuming X is constant during the action, and only Y varies, we can make a safe guess that 300 KPH = X (reasonable value, may be slightly over, but a smaller X will increase the Y value greatly)

    Knowing that 400 KPH is easily attainable, lets do the math:

    400 KPH = sqrt(300 KPH ^2 + Y^2) *square both sides*
    160000 = 90000 + Y^2 *subtract X^2*
    70000 = Y^2 *square root both sides*

    ~265 KPH = Y = Max Downward Vertical Velocity obtained @ R = 400 KPH

    Now, make X=300 and R=485 then:

    ~381 KPH = Y = Max Downward Vertical Velocity obtained @ R = 485 KPH

    Numbers for you all to work with ;) PS- As their is constant acceleration, there is also the need for attackers to constantly readjust and compensate for that acceleration in their aim, making the target even more so harder to hit, naturally.
  8. QFAN

    Having to switch seat to obtain a faster diving speed is certainly a bug that needs to be fixed.

    However, the fix could be either way - 1. Make it not possible to obtain such a high diving speed by switching seats, OR, 2. Make it not difficult to do (e.g., without doing special seat switching).
  9. Pixelshader

    I always wanted a button to make my esf free fall like it was empty, just to see how I could spin it. Never realised libs could do this for speed..
  10. applepienation

    Imagine if you could pull that off with a Galaxy. Just imagine a galaxy barreling through the skies at almost 500 kph ramming everything in sight, or even suiciding into a tank zerg.
    • Up x 6
  11. repinSniper

    AND SURVIVE!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    If only a ESF had a co-pilot seat, this ability would be common knowledge sooner...
  12. Aesir

    I don't want to lie, but wasn't this complained about in beta? I'm not sure but I did remember some posts about it back than. Shortly after we got a whole new flight model in beta and I assumed this was fixed, alongside the 500kmph+ dive bombing with Libs and Gals.

    (Back in beta Libs and Gals accelerated through diving, even with the Pilot in the seat, reaching absurd levels of speed during a dive and for set periods of time after leveling out of a dive.)

    Has no one wondered yet why objects without a player driving/piloting them react differently? This is not limited to any Vehicle. My guess is that they fixed the flight model back in beta ... only if a Pilot sits in it, but if nobody is piloting it revers back to the old physics driven model from beta.

    Just a guess ...
    • Up x 1
  13. Stefan1978GER

    Sugestion: Disable Swaping Seats after Takeoff for Pilot.
    • Up x 5
  14. repinSniper

    O, god, please spare the solo libs! Edit: *and gals!
  15. Obstruction

    its not really a practical exploit imo. i'd rather be 3/3 and almost always am these days. fixing it won't affect any top lib teams, or keep bad pilots safe in the stark terror and bitter cold of the long night. speaking as someone with considerable experience flying a liberator, this is not even needed, and the potential for abuse is pretty limited. you can lose altitude at high speeds, sure. that has always been the case, and who cares? they're losing altitude and they'll have way more problems for their trouble. if you could gain altitude at those speeds and/or cruise at those speeds, that would be much more problematic.

    the fact is that since launch it has been possible to fly at increased speeds by using gravity, without any sort of seat switching or whatever it is this guy is doing to exploit. it's just a simple feature of the physics engine causing libs and gals to fall faster when inverted, while ESFs are mostly unaffected. that aircraft fall even faster when unpiloted is even stupider and makes even less sense.

    so sure, patch it so that all aircraft fall at the same speed as ESFs, piloted or not. and maybe stop crying in the forums that libs need to fall faster when inverted. it's exactly that kind of wrong thinking that lead to this unintended flight mechanic.
  16. repinSniper

    Just tested a full freefall from 900 meters. Maximum Y velocity or Drop Velocity with no Forward movement was ~ 360 KPH.

    Liberator landed and only took ~25% hp in damage.
  17. Brahma2

    Why would anyone run Racer?
  18. repinSniper

    Ask my 700 cert's spent in the name of testing today; they would like to know that too...

    O, and 485 KPH Maximum Vector Velocity.
  19. Brahma2

    Only bad Libs run Racer.

    Racer Libs are like the grouped A2A missile using Reavers of Libs.
  20. Obstruction

    i agree, racer is really bad. maybe another 10 or 20 kph buff and take away that AB nerf they snuck in last patch.