22 Reasons to run Mineguard on your AMS

In situations like this I pretend that the game is still in early beta and AT mines don't exist. Then I imagine a guy comes to the forums and posts: "You know what would bw hilarious? to have mines that you can throw under vehicles to blow the up in under a second. You could drive a Lightning to a sunderer, throw a couple mines under it and BOOM! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!"

The amount of amusing cat pictures with misspelled reprobatory sentences in that thread would destabilize the forums.

No risks aside from the deaths. Because that's the only risk in the game.

By this logic, there's also no risk on the side of the attackers, becuase you can just roll up another Sunderer. There's a cooldown, but that's just a time penalty - exactly like being killed.

No, because you're the defenders, which should be easier that assualt because you have a base around you. And this assumes you can't just get another Sunderer.

So you did indeed prove my point about you. Well done. if you had continue reading, you would have learned why wrote that part.

And for the record, i have never once suicide bombed a sundy as an engineer. I am almost always either a medic, or the engineer sitting in the sunderer murdering those suicide engineers, and doing a damn good job of it. Step it up, son.

So 3 engineers + 2 maxes + bunch of randoms isn't enough to defend a sundy? There is nothing you can do to completely defend a parked sundy, doesn't matter where it is. Realistically you're not really supposed to be able to.

After I made my post I decided to go and test my Mineguard 2 to see just how much it takes to destroy it. 2 AT mines brings to to less than 1/3 HP, and thats with a 40% damage reduction from Mineguard 2 (25% for Mineguard 1). Something tells me you're either full of ****, or you never actually got double mined.

The difference in a real battle with or without mineguard is negligible. Really its a non-issue, because getting another sunderer there is just as easy.

How about make mineguard worth it (worth against being suicide bombed by ONE guy) and be able to make one of the gun turrets automated.

I actually want to know why we don't have automated defense systems like LPWS (http://www.airdefenseartillery.com/ada_website_08/attach/C-RAM 2.pdf) to prevent against projectile damage. This kind of solution makes sense to me..

The sunderer has a much longer timer, cost resources, and must be driven from another outpost extending the time it takes to redeploy. And there is potential depending on the scale of the fight that there are no other sunderers on the field so the attack could fail as a result. The suicide bomber respawns and it back in the fight 10 secs later.

Like I said grasping at straws. Lets be honest here there is no reasonable argument to on your part here. There is no way that the risk/reward balance is even remotely fair in this case. We all play this game and we all know it literally hinges on spawn locations. When it becomes trivial to deny the opponets spawns then there are issues, it is the main reason people despised OS spam in PS1. And the current suicide bomber craze is mirroring that very closely now.

I am not saying the sunderer should be unkillable or hell I am not even asking for AT mine nerfs. I am simply saying that the act of destroying something as all important as a sunder should not be as simple as one guy with explosives drop podding next to it and blowing it sky high in mere seconds. Especially when there is little you can do to prevent it seeing as how fast it can happen and there are two different types of explosives capable of doing it and you can not cert to mitigate both. It is a frustrating design as is evident by the sheer number of threads about this issue. If the devs would do something as simple as combine blockade armor with mine guard I would be fine because then the defense of "get mine guard" would actually hold weight because you would be immune to suicide bomber attacks. And then sunderers would have to be downed by force through the use of vehicles/air or coordinated infantry attacks and not random kamakazi runners jumping out of the woodwork like they are the viet cong or something.

After reading your whole post I realize you are playing a version of game where there is apparently a single engineer on the entire cont and his repeated deaths are detrimental to the empire. I mean really? If that was your best argument then I believe you have to "step it up, son". I mean really some of these reasoning are getting down right silly at this point.

Engineer: Dont worry guys I will rush the enemy AMS and blow it sky high for the glory of our empire!

Squad: NO! You cant! What if you die?!

Engineer: Dont worry I will respawn back here in a matter of seconds thanks to the glorious rebirthing technology!

Squad: In a matter of seconds?! That is too long! Who will repair and rearm us during the the few seconds that you will be dead?!

Engineer: You guys do realize that there are like 50 engineers running around right? And that you guys can switch to that class as well if needed right?

Squad: .......Oh ok.

Thats kinda of what I pictured when I read your post.

For those asking why two AT mines can take out a sunder.

Ammo resupply gives exp and a large benefit to a attacking force.

Vehicle repair gives exp and a medium benefit to both attack and defense.

Radar would have been awesome benefit if it had worked like flash radar but as is its weak.

Blockade increase Sunder's survival against everything but C4 and AT mines.

Stealth increases lock on time required for rockets both from ground and air by 1sec when maxed. I'm going to say that is weakest of the lot.

Mine Guard protects against one single form of attack with 30 certs being enough to counter a 100 cert engineer ability. Because Mine Guard is effective in countering one of the two fastest ways of killing a sunder at a very low cert cost it allows sunders equipping it to survive longer then any of other choices when used in AMS role.

Mine Guard, Ammo Ressuply, Vehicle Repair, and Blockade Armor are all roughly in balance. Radar and Stealth are under powered compared to other choices.

If you choose the exp of Ammo Resupply or Vehicle Repair then you make yourself more vulnerable as a result. If you choose Blockade Armor you increase your survival against a large range of attack but remain vulnerable against AT mines. I have more sympathy for non sunder vehicles like tanks that don't gain the all around benefit of Blockade Armor for forgoing Mine Guard.

Mine Guard is just the best choice for a AMS sunder that also is decently effective at rank one. You should just buy it if you want to deploy a AMS sunder. Buy at least rank 1 when you get AMS and equip it. You may decide later to take more risks against AT mines for the benefits of other options.

But in the beginning buy some Damn Mine Guard!

Alright well i can see you will not change your opinion, despite when i provide solid reasoning why you are wrong. You can sit here on the forum with your head up your **** and cry about your sundys, while me and the rest of competent players continue to rock on with little problem.

I have max mineguard for my Sunderer. Frequently I actually let enemy engineers plant their mines, because a) I get points for repairing and b) they waste their resources.

Leaving aside that you can have one for each person on your assualt - that's all still a time penalty. It's smaller for the person in the base - because they're in a base. That's the point of a base.

It's really this simple - In order to take out a Sunderer you have to do something smart or they have to do something stupid.

Either it's poorly placed or guarded or you've used time, resources, coordination and/or cunning. That doesn't seem like a poor design to me. That seems like the sort of thing you build in on purpose.

People keep using the rhetorical argument: "it's just so easy" and yes, people keep making frustrated threads because they don't want to do the basic things that stop it being easy. They want it to be simple, fire and forget and frankly, in their favour.

A mobile spawn point needs to be at high risk precisely because it is such a valuable asset. Fighting over spawn points is literally what this game is about, and when you encounter a well defended one it becomes a pitched static battle that will generally come down to numbers. And that's fine, that's fun, but not very battle should be that way. The high risk reward of the flimsy forward base makes battles dynamic and tactical. And people are arguing that the game shouldn't be.

Not having a mineguard is like skipping bulletproof vest and choosing to carry a backpack filled with skiddles instead.

Sure you get skiddles but its not going to really help you out if you happen to get shot in the chest.

Sundie mining ALSO reduces choice for the Engineer that is attacking the bus.
Comparatively:

• C4 + underslung grenade is not viable
• Staying in your tank and shooting the bus is not viable (see video)
• Changing class to attack it in a differrent way is not viable

So AV mines vs. deployed vehicles is really distorted in terms of design.
It is obvious to any designer.

I didn't read through the 7 pages, so I don't know if anyone has already suggested something like this. Sorry if I'm repeating.

When the engineer throws the mine under a stationary vehicle the blast should kill the engineer. Is there some way to negate the XP earned from destroying the vehicle after the engineer then dies from his own tank mine?
That would deter cert farmers at least, although I'm not sure whether these deployed Sundies are being destroyed by farmers or team-players/tacticians.

Edit- That should promote the use of C4 for this task, which would be more natural.

I find it so much more satisfying when I get a tank kill from the mine I laid a few minutes earlier. One which I had to throw on the road with haste while dancing around with the pew pew lasers and HEAT rounds as I scurried back inside the building...