22 Reasons to run Mineguard on your AMS

Bit confused here, you're arguing that it's hard to defend the thing you didn't equip the easy to acquire defense for?

Because it's pretty hard for a single foot soldier to take a guarded Sunderer with only one person defending. (Remember, it's also the place your troops are coming from.) There aren't many setups that carry the output to do it, and they all require significant cert investment and/or resources.

The force required to defend it against multiple people generally depends on the location. You have the Sunderer's guns, a ready supply of AP mines and the aforementioned spawning fellas on your side, and all you have to do it make sure two attacks don't overlap. I'm often suprised at how much trouble people have coordinating multiple attacks, but good on them when they do. Because it means our force now needs another Sunderer. Of which we can have as many of as we have people to spawn from them. If your argument is that it's hard to coordinate multiple sunderer's you're using a dual standard.

mines are a symptom to a bigger issue. assuming even numbers, the only way to win a hex is to destroy the enemy's spawn (or lock it down by camping if not possible). there's no ticket system that would allow you to "slowly" beat the enemy. instead you have to breach through the enemy lines in a desperate suicide attempt right into his heart, the spawn, and destroy it. if you don't acomplish this, every kill you do simply doesn't matter (besides cert farm).

The mineguard sunderer/AT mine dynamic is good as it encourages defense. Since sunderers can provide a faster and better spawn than the defenders have, how would it be fair to have no drawbacks to going in super close with a sunderer? If you want to go in super close, get mineguard. If you want to support the zerg, ammo sunderer.

Man no need to grab a book to read this thread has allot of short stories
Honestly though what do you expect people.
The ******* military created a specialized vehicle's just to survive one blast. So i see no problem with 2 taking out a sundie. The fact i get the option of undermining the attempt is welcomed.
I don't understand why so many people whine for gamebreaking "balance" changes.

For those that are annoyed with their sundies being poped though here's some tips
GET MINEGUARD, cause you can defend agaisnt rocket's. If they roll c4, well QQ.
Park it so that the objective is BETWEEN your sundie and their SPAWN. This way you can defend your sundie and attack the point.
Park it out of line of sight as best you can...
Accept that it will get destroyed.
It's meant to provide a strong push not an unlimited spawn room.

I play engineer and i have to say that going for a AT-bomb run is one the most entertaining/adrenaline/revarding thing to do . I admit i am a bad marksman, however even getting usual streek of kill with my gun is nothing in excitement compared to AT bomb running .
I love doing explosives and bobytraps . Yeah it´s unfair and i sacrifice everything in favour of that so i am a easy targer. Do i coplain about being killed a lot ? No . Why ? I do bombs and don´t care about anything else . You can call it unfair i call it traid off .

Deal with it , FPS master race .


Want to replace them ?
Give me 20 at mines . 5 resources fo 1 mine . And let them do 1/4 od the default damage . Then we have a deal .

The point is, a single person can do this and be very effective at it. Also, I'm not contending that mine guard is necessary. If you've been following the thread, I've made several statements about the problem is that it's required. It becomes a single, necessary choice alongside 5 others that have become irrelevant because you must have mine guard.
By the way, I do this... I take out sunderers in a similar fashion to what is in the OP's video. So I speak from experience. It's too easy to take out a sunderer. One person shouldn't be able to so easily counter the efforts of many. that's all.

As mentioned above, there are discussions previous in this post talking about how the problem is that this easy to accomplish tactic makes mine guard necessary and makes the others in this same slot too risky to take. When one choice becomes necessary to the exclusion of all others, those choices are not very balanced.

In the very post you quoted your snippet from, I described how easy it is for a single person to take down a guarded sunderer, using a variety of tactics. All of the stuff you mentioned was addressed in that post... sundy guns, AP mines, etc... they are by and large ineffective, and that's fine. The problem isn't that one person can get close to a sundy... with enough effort and suicide running and drop podding, someone will always accomplish this. The problem is that when this happens, the sundy is gone.

Certed level 4 mineguard yesterday. Single foot soldiers still take out my sundy with c4 in a nano second.

This is overdramatic and wrong. In the post above the one you replied to I give valid situations to use the other AMS defense slots. Even stealth Sunderers can occasionally be useful -- although for very, very specific things that fortunately don't require more than a 30-cert investment.

If you want to use an aggressive spawn point, then yes mine-guard is necessary.

The AMS is necessary to make it a spawn point. If you park it in the open, you probably want top or side armour. You've judged the threats and picked the most appropriate defence. How is that not balanced? Surely that's the intent of the defensive slot? If there were no mines everyone would use Barricade because you'd judge the threats and pick the most appropriate defence.

Unless you pick the easy to acquire appropriate defence. If you're not using that, you can't really argue that it's impossible to defend from the thing you're defending it from.

Repair it maybe? 2 c4 takes it to 5-10% health. 3 c4 requires a heap of certs and about 5 seconds.

edit: that said, I have tried and failed numerous times to bail from a Mozzie and drop the c4 midair. But if that's whats killing you, good luck to them.

I'm slowly understanding why it's for some people neccesairy to have their coffee cup labeled with 'hot liquid inside'.

I will never use mineguard because of one word, "Stealth."

It is much more crucial to keep your sunderer hidden than to have it protected from the odd rouge engineer. All that mine protection counts for nothing when everyone and their mother can see your sunderer on the minimap. Every liberator, ESF, tank, c4 spammer, and rocket user will know where your sunderer is and will put all of their effort into destroying it. All you end up with is a sunderer that is either destroyed in minutes by multiple explosives or becomes a cert farm for the other team who have decided to set up camp nearby and shoot anyone who wanders away from the sunderer.

Then our experiences are much different. I rarely have my sundy blown up by engineers with mines. because i stay and defend t with my bulldog. Not very hard at all. And i do stay and defend it because its an important asset to the squad.

And no, not every place is a bad spot. You need to just put some thought into it. And ya know, considering how important the AMS is to fueling a team's ability to fight, im ok with AT mines being devastating to it without mineguard. If they manage to swarm it and destroy it, good on them. If a lone engy gets it because i missed a few bulldog shots, my fault, good job engy.

With an underslung grenade launcher 2 c4 is sufficient to instant kill a sundy and can be done by pretty much any class. AT mines are simply one aspect of the larger suicide bomber problem this game has. C4 also contributes to this issue but AT mines are preferred now because they are cheaper in both cert and resource cost and are not location dependent. But when your first suicide run fails because of mineguard you simply respawn and C4 the sundy.

The real issue here is that you can have single players throw themselves at a sunderer and destroy it in a matter of seconds. And there is no cert or attachment to 100% protect against this since mineguard does not mitigate C4. The fact that a single foot soldier currently is a bigger threat to a deployed sundy than an MBT or a lib should be enough indication that something is not right here.

Firstly, not really the case because foot soldiers have an issue interacting when filled with bullets. Secondly, that's not a problem. Vehicle aren't supposed to be insurmountable. It's a game, there's supposed to be a rock/paper/shotgun thing going on. Vehicles give you advantages and disadvantages, they're risk/reward not just reward, and part of that risk is not seeing a dude glue explosives to your ***.

And where is the risk on the part of the suicide bomber? If you die you respawn and try again and again and again with no penalty. And if you are successful the rewards are great. The risk is all on the part of the sunderer side of the house not on the part of the attacker who can just repeatedly throw himself at you and only needs to get through once to succeed. This is bad design no matter how you look at it.

Is it that hard to really shoot a guy that is running in a straight line to a Sunderer? You know he is going to it, they do'nt have jetpacks, they typically don't juke. He has mines in hand and not shooting back. Not to mention if you are the lone sunderer (lol not likely) you would have multiple people spawning out of it and heading to where he came from. They are going to meet. I have never seen the same person run over and over at a sunderer while you are farming him. 2-3 tries maybe then he will change tactic or just get mad and farm kills of your team coming into the base. The thing is the Sunderer needs to be killed in an easy enough manner. There is no limit to how many your team can have in a hex. The limits on deploying aren't that restrictive. If you take the satellites of a tech plant and deploy 5 sunderers around it, the defender has 1 spawn point, you have what 8? If they take out one of the sundies chances are there is 3 more hanging out ready to deploy. Being able to spawn close to a base as you suicide rush the generators/cap point is no worse than a engy suicide rushing your sunderer.

Your shortsightedness is appalling. Do you seriously think being killed, even as infantry, has no penalty? How about the fact that you have to wait to respawn, in game where every second in a fight counts and things can change very quickly? While you are dead, how much damage is your squad's MAX going to take, if he survives at all? How are terminals going to be repaired? Whois going to supply ammo, lay tank mines, hell just contribute to the overall firepower of the squad? One man down means one less enemy the other faction has to face. And one fool who continues to throw himself repeatedly at a bulldog means more certs for the gunner.

And on the otherside, you have the sunderer, which is supplying its faction with a nearby spawn point, allowing exponetially more troops to come join the fight, as well as providing 2 infantry terminals, which can provide numerous useful devices, including medic grenades and bouncing betties, both of which make their respective classes even more effective. With a vehicle this useful, you are damn right AT mines are going to be effective against.

Not to mention the fact that AT mines have always been devastating against vehicles, to the point where major design specs have to be used to prevent the crew just from being killed, let alone the vehicle survive intact enough to be repaired.

I've noticed that the big outfits on Matherson all run mine guard. I find it particularly frustrating when I sneak up behind a very important sunderer and mine it just for my mines to only do about 30% of the sunderer hp which gets healed instantly. Though most nondecorated non certed sunderers are still very easy targets.

I am not going to lie I stop reading after this part. This game has a laughably short respawn time compared to most FPS games since death is so frequent. That fact you would consider this a "penalty" especially when weighed against the results of the successful destruction of a sunderer has on the opposing force is enough for to ignore the rest of your post. A few seconds respawn time vs the loss of a forward spawn and stalling and potentially stopping an enemy advance is a rather lopsided risk/reward wouldn't you say?

And to think you claimed I was shortsighted. I mean really now some of you are grasping at straws trying to justify your suicide bomber habits.