22 Reasons to run Mineguard on your AMS

Perhaps instead of having AT mines just blowing **** up, maybe they could do less damage but disable the vehicles ability to move until its fully repaired.

Ya I do, that's the point. Mineguard is the best option by far so the others aren't really choices unless I want to try something else for the sake of trying something else. If ammo dispenser, repair, whatever, were as valuable as mineguard, I'd make a situational choice and use them.

But they aren't.

Those other choices fill a role for a specific task that may last a few minutes until you die to a suicide bomber then you're stuck with a timer and loss of resources where mineguard keeps you from being one-timed by someone at no resource or timer cost.

So for those that need it spelled out for them:

In the Sundy, give up choices to gain time and resources to defend against a threat that doesn't have to spend time or resources. The threat has to give up one death (no cost) for a potentially large payoff.

That's the difference between a tactical decision and a tactical necessity.

It's like giving someone the decision if they want a windshield or a cup of coffee to drink while they drive. The cup of coffee sounds good but without a windshield, going over 20 mph is going to be really a pain.

That's my attempt at making it simple to understand.

I'm with Colt556 on this. I don't necessarily agree with everything you've said, but at least you make reasonable points.

One person should not be able to run up and instagib a vehicle. For gameplay's sake, mines should detonate only on moving vehicles. If a sundy is truly undefended, you should have no problem taking the time to set up C4 and detonate it instead of literally throwing mines at it until it explodes. They are two different kinds of weapons and their uses should be more clearly defined than they currently are. It doesn't matter that magnetic AT mines exist. For the purposes of this game, they should work only on moving vehicles.

Having said that, I do think two mines should take out a sundy without mineguard. Otherwise, mineguard would be useless. If I'm transporting my squad, I definitely put mineguard on it, and I don't feel as if I'm being pidgeonholed into doing it. Otherwise, I prefer something with a little more utility, just as Paincov3 is trying point out.

heh i do that all the time, makes so many people mad, hell I had one engie call me a hacker cause he didn't know about mineguard.

Things that kill a Sunderer:
Light Assault with 2 C4 and underbarrel grenade launcher
Heavy Assault with 2 C4 and rocket launcher, Squad of rocket launchers
Engineer with 2 mines, AT Turret (4 hits kills a sunderer), 3 C4

And why do we need instant death to sunderer?
Because ever tried to kill a sunderer with 3 or more engineers on it?

And why no one cares when a suny blows up?
Because there are at least 6 sundys waiting to set up in huge assaults...

After mines are useless what next make c4 useless?

They're proximity mines.

The fact that this game has more suicide bombers running around than the gaza strip is a problem in itself. I think it is far to easy and effective for a single person to run up and bomb vehicles in general regardless of if he is using mines or C4. There is also no real downside to this tactic. If you fail the first time you simply respawn and try again. It only takes one successful attempt to kill off a sundy and cause an entire attack to stall.

There are countermeasures available as has been said but they are mutually exclusive. If you run mine guard to prevent AT mines instakilling you then he comes at you with C4 and instakills you with that. Mine guard is not the end all answer to this issue as eventually bombers will switch to C4 if everybody starts to run mine guard. The only real answer is in baby sitting the sundy. But from a gameplay stand point there are issues with this. This requires individuals to sit out of the fight and essentially perform guard duty. Which is generally more boring then taking part in the actual battle. There is also the fact that there are so many ways for bombers to come at you with everything from instant action drop pods to c4 rigged flashes to even being as lame as making same faction alts to TK. Your "guards" can not watch everything and everyone at once. Not to mention that you are forcing one side to utilize far more effort, man power, and organization to defeat a tactic that is essentially one random guy throwing himself at the sundy from random directions with little to no coordination or higher planning(tho admittedly some of these little wannabe suicide bombers can get pretty devious with how they approach). Most people would generally not consider this good gameplay.

Now I mostly play as infantry so I am not a dedicated tanker or vehicle ***** by any means. However I am beginning to become concerned about the rampant use of suicide bomber tactics in this game. This is an issue that I think transcends AT mines and mine guard as C4 and other tools allow for the instant killing of vehicles including the all important sundy. Even as somebody who is mostly on foot even I am starting to think this is getting out of hand a bit.

Honestly for a deployed sundie mineguard is the best option. You can survive every other form of attack if you are smart and watch the vehicle. This is not a bad thing, this does not make mines OP. Mineguard would be useless if mines were not powerful.

Whilst the Mine Guard is the easiest solution it is not a necessity. If you can defend the Sunderer and cover it from the suicide engineers then you have other alternatives. However The same way a Mine Guard Sunderer is vulnerable to Rockets and Tank Fire your Sunderer will be vulnerable to mines.

Blockade Armor - Makes the Sunderer very resistant to other forms of Anti Vehicle weaponry. However you are more vulnerable to Anti Tank mines.

Proximity Repair - This now grants XP for any vehicle that is repaired not just squad vehicles. Using this does not increase the survive ability of the Sunderer at all but does often save those vehicles that would normally die because they waited to long to leave and repair! However you will find a side affect to using this upgrade is you are suddenly swarmed by friendly Armor making it a lot more dangerous for someone to target your Sunderer.

Field Resupply - Again this provides no survive ability to the vehicle itself but it does allow friendly vehicles to rearm in the field. Again a side affect of this is vehicles will stick around your Sunderer which makes it a harder target, Combined with the flow of vehicles to and from you makes it unlikely an engineer will manage to sneak up to it.

Now here is the thing... Many Sunderer drivers do not take advantage of Mine Guard and fail to defend the Sunderer. The huge numbers of Sunderers that do not use mine guard is the sole reason for the huge amounts of Engineers running around trying to get easy kills.

You also do not see how many engineers died in an effort to get to the Sunderer but it only takes one to get to it alive. Every engineer does not magically kill 1 Sunderer in 1 life. Many of them will die time and time again before reaching it!

As the number of Sunderers running Mine Guard increases engineers will probably switch to other means of destroying the vehicles, probably through the use of light assaults and C4. You are not able to protect your Sunderer from everything. Pick one and then stick by your Sunderer and help it out!.

Mine Guard at max rank i believe makes it impossible for 1 engineer to kill with landmines. I myself have driven over landmines in a full Sunderer and had the proximity chat break out into cheering and declaring love for me and my Sunderer. Mine Guard does not magically make Sunderers survive everything. You still need to watch and protect them.

Well if the whining portion of the playerbase has anything to say about it yes , so far they whine about everything they die from then ask for it to be nerfed cause it isn't fair. Life isn't fair adapt or die. There is counters to everything in this game from beta till now but there are too many hardheaded people who refuse to use tactics or their brain cells to formulate how to counter problems in the game.

Look it's simple: ammo dispenser is NOT a defensive tool and should NOT be in the defense slot for the sunderer. It's a utility.

If they change that, the choice is clear: you take an ams, OR an ammo dispenser, OR a repair sundy.

That way people who choose an ammo sundy will focus on fulfilling that role. And that role is: constantly being on the move, over roads that have already been cleared by friendly tanks. Not much chance of getting mined if you're being a true resupply sundy. But with that suggested change, you can still choose to have mineguard on your ammo sunderer. Just no ams.

And there will be a lot less whining about mines: if your sunderer gets mined, the first question would be: what did you have in your defense slot? If it was autorepair or blockade armor, it is clear that you made a choice to defend against certain things, which let you exposed to some other things.

Did it never occur to you that putting ammo dispenser in your DEFENSE slot isn't much of a defense at all?

There is a reason why people suicide, I personally try not to. Taking out a spawning sunderer is too valuable in terms of helping defend and experience given. You just have to accept that people are trying to kill your sunderer. Having a forward spawn point whilst attacking is very valuable, people should put far more effort than they currently do into maintaining it.

Mineguard prevents engineers one-shotting your sunderer, don't use and you run that risk. Bad placement is why the vast majority of sunderers die imo, placing it next to an amp station wall is one I see on a regular basis. It is very easy to get right on top of that sunderer undetected, sometimes even dropping mines down from above.

TL;DR
If you want you sunderer to stay alive, acknowledge how important it is to your attack. Cert mineguard and defend it.

PARK YOUR SUNDERERS. AWAY FROM THE WALLS. OR GET MINE GUARD.

You are bad and you should feel bad.

Pretty obvious that the design of AV Mines vs. Deployed vehicles is completely broken right now.
The Engie expressly has C4 to deal with parked Sundies. 2 C-4 is expressly designed to not instakill a sundie.
It is also clear that light defense near a sundie holds no reasonable chance to stop a suicide engy.
Getting out of a Tank so you can AV mine a sundie is obviously broken design balance.
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Mines should not detonate vs stationary vehicles. aka "deployed" vehicles.


Detonating mines with damage (eg. grenade, another mine) should not produce the same damage as them detonating as a result of being driven over.

Net result: Cluster mining for instakills would stop, C-4 and teamwork returns as the means of taking out sundies. Mines laced on roadways with reasonable separation. Players have a chance to repair their partially mined vehicle at cost of time. Gameplay choices.

I do not like the ability to kill parked vehicles so easily, especially considering how quickly in-and-out this occurs with mines. Different mines work in different ways, and I would expect a mine that detonates beneath an unmoving vehicle to detonate immediately, killing the Engineer who put it there. Or, perhaps, the placement of the mine to take longer, because of arming the mine after it is put on the ground. I do not think there would be anyone in the world that arms a mine then tosses it on the ground two feet from them, at least left alive anymore.

It would be nice to have the ability to disarm and retrieve unspent mines and C4, as well, adding them to your inventory, if you are an Engineer.

Just buy mine guard, it's cheap.

Mine guard + gunners worked all day yesterday versus infantry attacks. I enjoy sitting on a bulldog with NV watching for the one or two people to flee in my direction and gib them. Even better is when you pull the Sunderer up and secure an area with a lightning or two and perhaps even a second Sunderer and have a better view of the spawn room.The Heavies will peek out from a corner to shoot, old bulldog/fury or kobalt will flatten that heavy out in a hurry. Fun for all!

At least one part of an enemy team is going to seek out and attempt to destroy your Sunderer, just as much as some of your team is going to camp near the enemy spawn and try to keep them pinned in.

People, buy mine guard, if not, just protect your Sunderer, it's team work, it's tactically sound and it is loads better than coming on the forums with the following"MR DEV PLZ NURF DUH BAD THINGS I CANNOT SEEM TO GET MY HEAD AROUND" be it/lolpods/tank HE/HEAT/lightnings/mines/Prowlers/gravity or a bad itch, you can handle it, there's no need to call on the NURFS.


Until next time forum dwellers, please play the game, don't wreck it by whining away on the forums.

Friendly fire detection on the mines clearly exists otherwise we'd have FF kills all the time on vehicles.

Toss an armed mine down, it explodes shortly there after near the enemy vehicle.

Buy mine guard or guard your vehicle from such intrusions = logic.

Cry nerf = simply unwilling to correct your game play and learn from mistakes.

I ran mineguard 1 for a while, the two mine Engineers would fail almost every time. I'd repair it. I started running mine guard due to others saying that it works. Guess what, it does. Buy more levels, get more defense versus those Engineers that get past your defenses.

Lack mine guard or the ability to form a tactic as to how to defend your passive spawn friendlies attack vehicle, that's your loss. Don't punish the guy who comes in with the mines to take out your bus simply because you're failing to defend one of your valuable battlefield assets.


Going to play now!

C4. If not I usually have my own Sunderer that can blow it up or MBT/Lightning. Hell even the M40Fury on my Flash is an option.

You completely ignored everything I said and it makes me wonder if you even bothered to read my post. For example how exactly does mineguard protect a sundy from C4 which an engineer is also capable of using to one shot a sundy? As I said AT mines are only one aspect of the larger problem of suicide bombers being able to use one man rambo tactics to solo kill vehicles and the only defense is to regulate multiple people to baby sitting duty.

When you have a mechanic and/or tactic that requires one side to utilize far more effort and coordination to defend it against it while the other side has to use none then that is bad game design. To use your own logic against you why is it possible for something as important as a deployed sundy to be killed by a single person? It should require a coordinated attack to overwhelm a sundy not one guy basically throwing himself at it. Maybe its just me but I think taking out important objectives in a team based game should require teamwork.

If it was up to me I would fix this by combining mineguard with blockade armor. This prevents suicide bombing from both C4 and AT mines. That or bring back spitfire turrets that an engineer can place near the sundy so it has an automated security system and you dont have to take people out of the fight.