2 Orion Myths Debunked

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by a-koo-chee-moya, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Yeahy

    All I'm seeing is some crap VS LMG's.
    Good point, there are many things that the person using the orion has to do. And if the opponent is using a weapon with higher bullet velocity, the difference between .75 and .5 ads gets even smaller.

    On a side note: I have never "actively" used .75ads. At no point do I say: "Hey, lets go ADADADAD until I kill somebody. Its either reflexive that I don't know about or I just ad once then worry about actually hitting them.
    In my measly 600 kills with the orion (no sarcasm), I have never felt that I could use .75 ads to my advantage unless it was at long range.
  2. Kryvakryz

    Yes, yes we can. This will force the devs to make VS weaponry actually balanced instead of handicapping it because of one supposedly OP gimmick that 2 of our LMGs have.

    Sorry, but both you and 4 other people who liked your post don't understand how alpha damage affects the effective TTK and gun balance in general.

    Plus you can't have the most controllable as well as accurate LMG in the game AND amazing DPS. It's a trade.

    Nice chart, you're almost halfway there. Botji explained it better than I would, but I want to add two more cents of my own.

    First of all, there is a mistake in data used by OP and you. Strafing without ADS is 3m/s. I think OP used the data from my post in another thread, where I've made the same mistake.

    Second, you didn't include any information on how the size of hitboxes change at different ranges and how it affects the difficulty of leading the target, because you've obviously didn't bother with taking this into account when doing your calculations. Your whole argument is based around only one specific point you have to hit, when it is a whole body model we're talking about.

    Third, what you've also ignored is the basic ability of a player to reliably hit the target, thing about which I will elaborate at the end in relation to other online FPS. If the player can hit a target who is hipfiring, then the difference in ADS speeds is utterly insignificant; it is even more likely that he will hit someone who moves slower - while aiming down the sights.

    I find it funny that people don't whine about players using other weapons with 0.75 movement multiplier like SMGs (which are also available to Heavies) or the ones who strafe when hipfiring, yet think it's outrageous for an LMG to have this kind of "advantage". It's as if Orion HA had some sort of magical buff that makes him move at some lightning-fast speed that a human eye can't even see. Do people who use Jaguar move like that, too? Or the Cyclone/Armstice users? While we're at it, let's not forget about GR-22, Carnage BR, HV-45, Zenith or AF-4A Bandit.

    Meanwhile in BF3, basic ADS speed is set to ~2m/s and the faster ADS is set to ~3m/s. I will spare all of the whiners the embarassment and not get into details about gunplay pacing in Counter Strike, Tribes and some of the more prominent arena shooters. If I haven't already known that PS2 fanbase is so dense and childish, I would think they are the least skilled FPS playerbase to ever exist. But I know they are just overexaggerating when whining about 0.75 movement multiplier in a desperate effort to save their faces when confronted with facts. Don't take this too personally though, I was refering to other forumsiders in this thread above all - you're actually one of the very few people in here who wanted to explain the issue in more detail.

    I am all for giving other factions the 0.75 ADS movement speed, although not for free. It's rather insignificant, but since they value it so much I am sure they would be more than willing either to trade some of their advantages or support the idea of VS getting a buff, as it's obviously the OP 0.75 ADS speed that evened out the chances/performance between VS and other factions when it comes to infantryplay; if you look at the data you will see that most of our guns are worse compared to arsenal of NC and TR on every other level, so it's only natural for VS to trade the uniqueness of 0.75 ADS movement speed on LMGs for worthless "advantages" that NC and TR have, like lower horizontal tolerance, better accuracy and recoil stats as well *** access to certain attachments like soft point ammo or advanced forward grip on some weapons.
    • Up x 4
  3. patrykK1028

    WTF man? 155 dmg? You know it doesnt change anything? And reducing RoF by 100rpm without any BTK advantage?
  4. ohmikkie

    Wouldn't say it's worthless. Would not say it's that much of an advantage when latency in factored in. If you spotted someone already shooting you by the time you start ADSing you are dead anyway in my experience..
  5. PastalavistaBB

    Not everybody can afford a 3000+$ PC. Most of the players are playing with sub 30 FPS. Most of the time it drops under 20 FPS as well. If there's any real P2W in this game, it's the Hardware.
    • Up x 1
  6. Xasapis

    Well, sub 30fps will have tons of warping, so unfair deaths in close quarters and by people who ADAD will be inevitable.
  7. Koldorn

    Bit of a left-field question, since I don't heavy [Engi4Lif]; but what effect does activating the over shield have on the x.75 move speed?
    Far as I know it cuts you to half move speed, so would that bring the orion down to x.50? Or is it calculated after the ADS speed, additively:
    -ADS: 100 -> 50%, shield 50 -> 25%
    -ADS: 100 -> 75%, shield 75 -> 37.5%

    Or is it flat down to 50% with no consideration to other modifiers?
    • Up x 1
  8. DorianOmega

    bro, here is the definition of diversity:
    1. the state of being diverse; variety.
      "there was considerable diversity in the style of the reports"
      • a range of different things.
        plural noun: diversities
        "newspapers were obliged to allow a diversity of views to be printed"
        • variety,miscellany,assortment,mixture,mix,mélange,range,array,multiplicity

    The Orion Preforms well in short and medium range engagements, has a quick reload, very good DPS even at long range, and gets that movement bonus like its an smg or shotgun while being the starting/stock weapon for the VS heavy, name one gun that can do that much for either the TR or NC with as much ease of access, closest you get is the CARV from the TR and not a one LMG from the NC that even comes close to preforming similarly in either niche form or just in general, the cyclone maybe can be considered similar but even then its a 1000 cert costing smg, not exactly ez access or stock. And lets not forget the faction trait of no bullet drop...
    • Up x 1
  9. Flag

    Milluminati. :rolleyes:
  10. PastalavistaBB

    How about Illuminaughty?
  11. KnightCole

    I used the Orion and Pulsar for like 20 some BRs, wasnt impressed with either of them. They are both pretty damn inaccurate, neither strafe for crap and both have the same poor accuracy and spread of any other LMG. Idk why people love the Orion so much. Is it cuz the Orion is the only VS LMG that is really any good? I know people love the SVA, is it cuz it's accurate and handles well? If so, I can see it. VS Arsenal overall didnt impress me at all..
  12. SeverTheWicked

    Someone give this man a goddamn cookie. Even for the green bolded alone.

    My input:

    0.75x ADS Does Not Have a Bearing on how Good the Orion Performs
    This is a very interesting response to an issue that I raised a couple of weeks ago:


    I think you'll find that it does. Honestly, its not necessarily how the weapon performs by itself. Because then we're just looking at the weapon in vaccuum and using only paper stats to forward our arguments. But we can't do that, we must consider the greater impact and effect that the Orion and its other VS cousins have within actual combat itself. We know these things:

    • Hit Registration is bad
    • The client has an issue with packet loss and/or not registering information in real time about player movements
    • Lag and hitching are prevalent on many machines
    • Infantry in general move at speeds that do not relate well to normal human perception. Why is it that if you get shot, you can simply 'run' away? 'Good' players make out that the ability to lead your shots is a learned skill, whereas its a tool used to make up for poor game design. Gravity (bullet drop) is OK, having to adjust for Olympic Sprinters who never run out of stamina is NOT OK.
    Its not an issue with 0.75x ADS itself, it is its effect to further compound the above problems in infantry combat.

    The thing that people seem to be (for whatever sinister reason) forgetting to put in their posts is that, no matter what Planetside 2 is, at the core it is an FPS. That means it must follow basic principles and mechanics that were erected back in 1995 when Doom 95 was on a shareware floppy disk. i.e. "YOU PICK A GUN AND YOU SHOOT SOMEONE". If there are extenuating factors in the game that are preventing this (ergo the continued cancer of random crap in PS2's infantry combat), then ANY tool that compounds this whilst benefitting the user is AUTOMATICALLY OP.

    I could say the same thing about the Carnage AR (I think it has 0.75x ADS??) or the NS-15M if I saw them often enough and that they were also FREE. But I cannot, hence mine and many other's continued grudge with the Orion.

    So yes, the Orion is OP. When every VS Heavy has the innate "MoonWalk Ability" to make sure that the games problems are converged on you, then even if you end up breaking through their silly ADAD spam, they just switch on the shield and win anyway.
  13. Prudentia

    i run a i3-2125 with a AMD Radeon 7870 and i have 60 Frames on Medium.
    what are you running on that you don't have enough Frames? Toaster?
    when my last graphics Card died because it's cooling died i played PS1 with only the i3 had 400 Frames and i met someone in there who said he couldn't even run PS1 somewhat fluid...
    actually, someone installed DOOM on a Printer so i guess a Toaster would actually be quite capable of running PS1...
  14. SeverTheWicked

    0.75x ADS is not significant. It if was, the top 3 weapons of VS wouldn't be the Orion, SVA-88 and the Betelguese. Stop perpetuating this blatant LIE!
    • Up x 3
  15. Flag

    Why not both?

  16. Kriegson

    This! Thanks for quantifying it!
  17. SeverTheWicked

    I'm not sure I follow your trigonometry. If 1 player was standing still and the other was moving 0.2075 (to depict 0.5 ADS vs 0.75 ADS) in what can be approximated as a straight line on the circle, then yes the immediate solution would be Tan -1(0.2075/15) = x.

    Why have you now got 0.069m on your diagram?
  18. PastalavistaBB

    I have a 4 year old PC. My System Specs:

    AMD Phenom X6 1055 T
    8 GB DDR3 RAM Kingston 1333 Mhz
    Gigabyte Nvidia Geforce GTX 470 1280 MB Graphics Card
    Corsair SSD
    Samsung XL2370 LED Monitor (60 Hz)

    My Planetside 2 Graphic Settings:


    What performance do I get? 60 FPS in the warpgate. 30ish, sometimes even 40ish FPS in small to middle fights. 20ish FPS in big fights and it drops to 16-17 FPS in Clusterfuqs like Biofarms.
  19. jiggu

    Sorta unrelated, but what's with the SVA-88? I've heard a lot of good about it, and I've used it quite a bit myself and liked it, then I went back to the Orion and figured I must've been crazy before.
    The SVA-88 has a bit higher velocity, and a higher mag/reload profile. But a lot lower damage output
    Why would I want to use the SVA over the Orion, again?
    • Up x 1
  20. TheKhopesh

    I don't see you posting any info on alpha damage, so either you're holding with Forumside tradition and just spewing B.S. personal opinions, or you don't understand it either.

    As for "the most controllable as well as accurate LMG in the game", since when did NC get the Orion?