2 Orion Myths Debunked

DPS and TTK aren't the same thing and your numbers are off.

Effective TTK of 167/600 guns and 143/750 is already pretty close. The Bandit already has lower TTK than the Jaguar as well, @ 632 RoF.

http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh100-1-1/la/1/7174/3/7193

Why do people act like our 200 damage guns are somehow magical? The 200/500 damage per bullet/rate of fire damage model actually has worse DPS/TTK than the NC's bog-standard 167/600 damage model guns (albeit not by very much, but the 167/600 damage model was already about 120 DPS/0.04s TTK worse off than the 143/750 damage model used by a lot of TR guns and the Orion), and the lower rate of fire means your effective time to kill gets penalized disproportionately more for each missed shot. It's practically nothing but downsides.

I'm not going to label the Orion as OP but seriously stop trying to make it sound as though it's not easily one of the best LMGs in the game.

The gun is a direct competitor to the MSW-R and the Anchor, both of which are viewed by many as the best LMGs for the TR and NC respectively, and the VS get to use the Orion for free.

The .75 can only be seen as being worth less than SPA if you refuse to incorporate even a minor bit of movement while shooting, otherwise the .75 is an advantage over just about any range of engagement you choose to ADS at, while the SPA is only an advantage in the 10m to 15m range.

While the gun doesn't have the greatest accuracy stats in the game, it's still easy to control (little recoil you actually have to fight) is easily burst fired (which you should do anyways with any automatic gun) and the higher RoF makes the gun less punishing on a miss.

I think his point that it was not op, not that fact that it was worthless. He makes multiple references to other faction weapons and how the orion is similar, therefore he is trying to state that they are balanced.

I know what you're getting at and this post is probably a joke/satire but:
OP is saying that the weapons are similar with the Orion being a bit worse than the Carv but with a buff of .75 ads (which is a minimal advantage).

Well if people use the the NC and TR "best LMG's", why can't VS have a LMG that is better than all the others in the faction and is on par with the other facton's best weapon.

The orion is meant to be for newer players with more controllable recoil. I'm 90% sure the SVA-88 has the same manageability of alot of TR and NC weapons. But that's another discussion.

Best LMG in the game? Orion easy to control? .75 is an advantage over any range?

1. Lets make one thing clear here. The Orion is not a true LMG. It is more SMG than LMG in a lot of respects.
2. 2.25x first shot recoil multiplier is not easy to control and without a left or right bias you are guessing where your sights are going to go.
3. .75 is of little use within the range where the Orion is actually effective. Do people complain about .75 when they get killed by an SMG very often? No because hitting a strafing target is a simple matter at 10-15 meters. If you want to see how .75 can benefit a real LMG just look at the NS-15M.

NEVAR! The Polaris should be the standard for ALL VS weapons>:]
Just decrease magazine size and increase reload speed. THAT would be VS

First off.
Yes, I realize DPS and TTK are different.
in quick-paced battles (The term "quick" being subjective to each situation); TTK is the important factor used when fighting infantry, while DPS is the important factor used while fighting light armor (Such as max suits, harassers, ESF's, Valkyries, etc).


Secondly, my numbers are not off.

TTK is the time to kill firing as fast as possible at a given range while landing all shots to the chest (Unless the target area is specified otherwise, which it was not).


As the weapon range in question is CQC (10m or less), we go by maximum weapon damage.

To find simple TTK like this, the formula is:
(X is shots per second. Y is shots to kill.)

RPM ÷ 60 = X
Y ÷ X = TTK


The only discrepancy in my numbers would be that I did round the TTK for a 642 RPM 167 damage model weapon to 0.56075 seconds up from 0.5607476635514019 seconds.

The difference between these numbers is 0.0000023364485981 seconds.
I should hope that it's obvious why I rounded this.
In case it isn't, my reasoning was that rounding up less than 2.4 millionths of a second would be an acceptable discrepancy given that human perception cannot even register the difference in such a small time frame.

Well, SOME of us think the Polaris should be the standard for VS weapons. I would gladly give the Orion to the NC if they'd make us a CONTROLLABLE gun that doesn't have the accuracy of a WW1 machine-pistol.

There is no point making excuses. The Orion is an outstanding weapon. But then again, so is the repeater, Raven, Banshe and a whole host of other firearms. Yo cannot achive perfect balance within such a large game.

I should be clearer, I'm no agreeing with those that call the Orion OP, I'm a little jealous the VS get it as a default but that's about it, but by the same token the few players in here acting as though it's sub par or that the .75 is worthless are being absurd.

It's an excellent close range HA AR weapon, again on par with the NC and TR best versions, it's just the TR and NC get an LMG starter gun and the VS get a starter HA AR gun, nothing wrong with it, but I do agree it's the much better starter weapon.

If this isn't a benefit, I assume you won't mind if next patch every TR and NC weapon is given 0.75x ADS, right?

I don't see why not. 0.75 movement ADS speed is SO trivial (In my opinion, that is) that all factions should be able to use it.
WHAT IF...
Every faction had 0.75 movement ADS speed...
But the VS got 100% movement ADS speed?
NOW WOULDN'T THAT BE MOBILE?

Every faction does have .75 ADS speed, all the NS weapons are .75. Including the NS-15M if you want an LMG. Arguably it's more useful on the NS-15M too since that's a head shot machine with higher moving ADS accuracy than most LMGs and compensator access, neither of which the Orion has.

The NS-15 is a sorry excuse for a weapon, and so are all other NS weapons. Also, it costs 1,000 certs, a hefty price to pay for a simple movement bonus and reduced DPS and TTK. The Polaris is far superior.

Uh, no. If you don't realize the NS weapons are all really good you're probably not very good at this game.

Not that I'm arguing the Orion is bad mind you, it's definitely a good LMG.

I've played this game for a little over a year now.
I hate the Orion.
I hate the NS-15.
I hate the NS-11C.
I ESPECIALLY hate the 11A.
But I adore the Commissioner and the Crossbow. Currently, they are the only NS weapons I would gladly use. You know why...
Also, I love the Polaris. The Polaris is superior. So is the Lasher, but only in terms of uniqueness.

If normal strafe is 3 km/h or 0.83 m/s,
0.75 strafe would be 2.25 km/h or 0.6225 m/s
0.5 strafe would be 1.5 km/h or 0.415 m/s

Going further with this subject, a difference of 0.2075 m/s doesn't seem like much on paper, but let's look at an example. Say a fight occurs at 15m, outside of comfortable hipfire range for most weapons, so both players ADS and AD strafe while firing at each other. One player has a 0.75x ADS weapon and is moving 0.2075 m/s faster than the other player. Given this scenario, we want to know how many more degrees per second the 0.5x user needs to correct their aim to compensate, then compare that to the recoil stats on weapons (which is also conveniently in degrees) to show the difference.

First, we solve for the angle x, which is inverse tangent of (0.2075/15) = 0.793 degrees.
So the 0.5x ADS user will have to compensate for what is effectively 0.793 degrees per second of additional random horizontal recoil, in addition to any recoil his weapon has.

Let's take a look at the horizontal recoil on the NC6 Gauss SAW.
The Gauss SAW has 0.175 degrees horizontal recoil per shot, and fires 500 rounds per minute, giving it 1.4583 degrees of horizontal recoil per second. When facing an opponent with 0.75x ADS speed, their effective horizontal recoil increases by 54%.

Going back to the above scenario, let's assume that the engagement happens at 10m instead of 15m, which is still outside of hipfire range for most LMGs. This gives the 0.75x ADS user 1.189 degrees of relative horizontal movement over the 0.5x user.
The Gauss SAW's effective horizontal recoil is increased by 82%!

What this effectively means is the Orion user gets two free advanced foregrip's worth of advantage over the SAW user when the two are engaged in an ADS aim duel while strafing at 10m.

That's why 0.75x ADS is bullcrap.

The thing I never understand about the non stop complaining about the 0.75 ADS on the Orion is....it is a 0.5 move speed penalty with the heavy shield up, which pretty much every heavy player ever uses. So the struggle to hit the "PURE ORION WARPER" is the same struggle you face with any ADS enemy ever.

As a note, I'm all for the MSW-R and Anchor getting 0.75 ADS assuming the Orion can pick up SPA and an advanced laser.

its been along day ans i didn't even notice i ****** up a that conversion. thanks for correcting it and further analyzing the data with a real model and not just "feelings"