Ⓐuto S¢out Rifleš, underpowered for 2+ years, NO M☯RE!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CapEnTrade, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. CapEnTrade

    JUSTIFICATIONS

    This line of weapons for the infiltrator class has been neglected and ignored since their birthing into the game, and I'm almost certain its conception was an accident. SOE screwed up and gave birth to this "special" weapon and has chosen to shun it instead of giving it the care it has desperately needs. I wont stand by any longer! I wont let the Automatic Scout Rifles (ASRs) be ignored anymore! I have all the scout rifles well over auraxed FYI.
    [IMG]
    Just as an example to prove to you how far from reality SOE (DGE) has been with this weapon, I need but say one statement.
    ASRs used to have only 20 shots... and a longer reload!



    Yup folks, it's true.

    Now, if you have the audacity to come in here and argue against the fact that this line of weapons is severely underpowered, perhaps a review of the situation will dissuade you from acting like a moron.
    First, here are the current stats for everyone to refer to.
    http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/AF-18_Stalker


    ISSUES

    The issues are...
    -Relatively low DPS because of relatively low RPM.
    -Bad hipfire CoF.
    -Bad mag size of only 24.
    -Bad velocity.
    -Slightly bad ADS moving CoF.
    -Kinda bad horizontal recoil.
    -No HVA, SPA, or ADV-FG to help with the various issues.
    -Soas 20 has the ugly standard TR base model.
    -ADS movement speed multiplier is only the standard 50%.

    The only decent part is that the vertical recoil is 3.0, which is "OK" for 652 RPM.

    As they stand, these weapons are currently THE WORST automatic weapons in the game and that is a statistical fact. They are also arguably the worst in use. The fact that infiltrators can cloak with them is the only arguing point on that, as it makes them somewhat usable.

    Basically these weapons are so bad they force you to play from the sidelines and shadows. However, you can't go to far away because these guns don't have the velocity, RPM, damage, or enough accuracy to be competent at longer ranges. They suck at close range. Medium range is the ideal spot, however Some SMGs are arguably better at this medium range while remaining excellent up close. The ASRs have no niche because there are several other weapons with niches that effectively overlap or overshadow these weapons while having many other clear advantages! Plus, with only 24 shots @143 you'll have to aim incredibly well and land most of your shots on isolated targets or else you're almost guaranteed to die.

    To review...
    Fact, these weapons literally (the literal literally) suck.
    (compared to ALL other automatic weapons, and they have no real niche.)
    That's the fact, that's the definitive fact!
    PLUS, they've been this way and even worse for 2+ years! SINCE THEY WERE MADE!
    SOE (DGC) has purposefully ignored and neglected them.


    A BUFF IS AND HAS BEEN REQUIRED!

    Required buffs...Lets go all the way this time!
    [IMG]
    -Add at least 1 more shot to total 25. (Because 25 is a better than 24...) Or how bout 26 or 28 huh? MOAR!
    -Change damage profile to a NEW mid tier of 154@10 to 134@65. This requires the same amount of bullets to kill (7&8) and has the same effective TTK, however it is more reliable and has more total damage. Bloom remains the same!

    -Change horizontal recoil from 0.2/0.225 to 0.201/0.201, add the option for the advanced forward grip.
    -Crouch move CoF to 0.15 from 0.2, walk move CoF to 0.25 from 0.3.
    -Vertical recoil to 2.8 from 3.0, first shot recoil multiplier to 1.4 from 1.5, a small change to bring it a little more in line with other weapons shooting at 652 RPM, though not quite as good respecting the damage changes.
    -Flat velocity buff to 560.
    -HVA ammo slot option.
    -0.75 ADS move speed. Let's think about this, the gun is pretty much a carbine frame and its only got a 25ish shot magazine... Plus you WILL be using this primarily on the move.
    -A TUN of people use the suppressor with these guns, make it a solid and desirable option for these weapons by modifying the Suppressor attachment to only reduce velocity by 20% as opposed to 40%. This would also help establish this weapon's niche.


    WHY SO MUCH BUFF!?
    Because this weapon sucks and really needs all of it. It will be perfectly balanced because the weapon still only has 25 shots, but now it will have a little more damage and accuracy to make those count! The new damage tier is not only unique but very practical for this sort of weapon as well! Again, takes the same amount of bullets to kill but is a wee bit more reliable. This weapon would be PERFECT for the higher skill player and those who are trying to become better shots! Think about it, the challenge would still be pretty high but the reward would be just enough now to justify using these guns. Furthermore, these changes PUSH this gun into a REAL niche! Think about it! It would be a solid medium range weapon that can ideally be suppressed constantly. It WILL be suppressed consistently by most anyone using it, I assure you. This would become a SERIOUSLY unique weapon ideal for a refurbished breed of mid range Infiltrators!
    Does it need every buff I listed for this? YES! Will it be to much? NO! Despite all these improvements, this gun is still statistically inferior by a solid amount to many/most automatic weapons, the difference is that now, with some skill, the rewards justify the means and it's a unique weapon with a solid unique niche on a unique class.


    IT NEEDS ALL OF THE SUGGESTED BUFFS! DO NOT SETTLE FOR LESS! I am here to MAKE SURE that SOE (DGC) delivers! please comment, like, and tweet Mister Higbeh plus anyone else related to balance with a link and support for this post. Also help me keep this thread's blood pumping until its mission statement is met in exactness or better.




    TLRD
    Auto Scout Riles SUCK (statistical fact) and need serious buffs.

    THANKS!
    ~CapEnTrade
























    • Up x 3
  2. Ballto21

    <3

    I put off auraxiuming my infitrator for so long because i needed scout rifle kills.

    The Artemis is a bad eridani with the exact same damage 1 (or 11 with mags) few bullets, lower ROF, and piss poor mid range/hip COF. along with many other flaws
    • Up x 1
  3. Ballto21

    I think that upping its ROF to 725 (25 RPM slower than eridani/PDW) and keeping its recoil patterns, or causing minor changes would be nice but im not a numbers guy.

    Also increasing its damage over distance/decreasing its dropoff would do wonders as would extended mags or just a flat out mag size buff
    • Up x 1
  4. CapEnTrade


    an RPM of 725 would be outstepping the role of this weapon I think, as well as make ammo control considerably harder. It would make sense if it had 35ish rounds but that's unlikely. This weapon seems to be intended as a medium range marksman's weapon.
    Also
    The 154 to 134 damage tier would take care of the dropoff, and if you noticed that buff would also include changing the min damage range from 60 meters to 65.
  5. Fatal_Finn

    Sorry this is a bit offtopic but because you seem to have a lot of experience with scout rifles, what kind of certifications and loadout would you suggest for them? I'm planning on moving to scout rifles after completing the carbine directive.
  6. cyb_

    You do not have much choice: go for compensator + forward grip.
  7. Fatal_Finn

    I just think compensator is not so good deal. Although cloaking right after removes you from minimap, right?
  8. cyb_

    Yes, it does.
  9. TerminalT6

    I would switch between a suppressor and a compensator depending on the situation. In larger fights, individual dots on the mini-map don't matter much, so the compensator will get you better range. For smaller engagements, where it's easier to close the distance between you and the enemy, especially as an infiltrator, a suppressor might do you one better.
    • Up x 1
  10. Fatal_Finn

    Alright, thanks. Might reconsider compensator again in that case.
  11. Fatal_Finn

    Will also keep this in mind, thanks.

    (Sorry for double post but couldn't edit the previous one)
  12. Korfax124

    Instead of making a new damage model we could just use an existing one. By using the max damage value of the NC Bandit (with the Auto Scout Rifles unique damage model and a RoF of 600), we have a slightly smaller need for the recoil changes (not saying that I don't want them still).

    The primary issue with buffing the Auto Scouts is that other classes SURELY will cry "OP, because cloak" :(
  13. Auzor

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/...he_tr_faction_trait_apply_to_our_lmgs/co5zmk6
    Per Higby on reddit:
    -> Full auto scouts are supposedly the longest range automatic weapons in game.
    Considering indeed things like 500m/s velocity, vs 650 m/s for certain assault rifles, or indeed some LMG's.. "eh?" applies,
    but I didn't feel like stepping into scout rifle discussion on reddit, on a thread starting about LMG's more, AR's somewhat.

    I've only used the NC ASR a bit, and switched completely to SMG for now.. I never use it for long range. At best, I use it for "mid range", but typically I would want to be at about 30 meters with it (okay, maybe 50. I can't judge distances very well). (longer and an enemy just jumps into cover, shorter and you become very visible and run a corner into a 845 rpm carbine slaughtering you, whilst you're cloaked).
    For say.. 100m range engagements, the infiltrator has far better options. So, it is only between the "hmm.. SMG tickles at this range". "hmm.. sniper rifle fires to slow for this range" that the Scout Rifle has a niche.

    That said, it has a niche, IMO.
    I also don't think you can call full auto ADS moving accuracy "bad"; it's the same as an SMG isn't it? Several AR's have 0.35; most LMG's 0.4..

    Wanna know what is, IMO even worse off?
    The semi-auto sniper rifles.
    Worse hipfire than bolt actions, only 500 & 550 muzzle velocity, very bad ADS moving accuracy, high recoil, high bloom..
    and no OHK? Woohoo, sign me up. :( . I would mostly like to see the muzzle velocity buffed by 100 m/s. Possibly give em good ADS moving accuracy, etc.
  14. nehylen

    I don't understand the special damage tier you'd want for them, or the buff to vertical recoil either: as far as i'm concerned their vertical recoil is really mild, it doesn't need any help, unless you want to shoot at far-away stuff somewhat, which i find less than ideal with 24 rounds and 500m/s.
    I also wouldn't want .75ads at all. If any .75ads is to be on ASRs, it'd have to come from a NS issue of the concept, with penalties for it, i hope (the Vandal has lower velocity, loud noise, some degree of bias than SA scouts). For fast moving ads auto, there are already much better options available anyway. Let the ASRs stay how they are, the last thing you'd want is make them OP.
    With that, what you're asking for is almost a NS-11C with lower first shot recoil and 10 less rounds.

    I believe your lowered horizontal recoil would achieve absolutely nothing in the current state of affairs, nor would it be needed: the interaction with horizontal tolerance is more important than recoil itself. If you want to make the gun more stable .200~225 is decent enough especially on low RoF weapons like this. Lower tolerance would achieve way more in terms of stability. Not sure it's all that needed either.

    On the things i 100% approve of, a default velocity buff to 560m/s makes perfect sense to me, and the lowering of CoF (which is the only thing i'd go farther than you with. Like 0.20 or even 0.15 ads moving CoF) but mostly a preference towards suppressors is definitely a perfect fit on these guns: these are about quick, discrete kills with the lowest rounds fired possible.
    About the damage, instead of a weird tier and HVA, why not just take the max damage range from SA scouts? It achieves the same thing and in a more comprehensible way.

    Great accuracy on the SOAS by the way. I managed 37% on my 1160 kills but that was really pushing it.

    In terms of stats, you are 100% correct. But pick the Artemis, put a suppressor. Listen: completely muffled sound effect.
    Nyx and Artemis are the most silencious guns available to the VS inf when suppressed. Possibly the best suppressed sound effect in the whole game (can't listen to all, but i can't imagine how it could be topped). Even the default sound is already really good.
    The NC/TR versions of the ASR have a loud sound effect, particularly the NC one, even if suppressed. The NC actually have it better overall, because their suppressed SMGs are only barely worse off than the suppressed Artemis noise-wise. Yet anothing good thing going for the Cyclone!
    TR on the other hand have no suppressed primary with a muffled sound available to their infiltrators, though their SMGs are middle-of-the-road (suppressed VS SMG being just as loud with or without suppressor).

    My setup for auraxing the Artemis was initially 1x+comp+grip. But i soon went with 1x+suppressor+grip. The suppressor probably isn't as good an option for TR/NC though, due to being much louder when suppressed. It might still be better because minimap, but i'm not knowledgeable enough about SOAS/Stalker practice.

    Vertical recoil is low on these guns, which is why you don't need a comp. Also relative discretion is a better prospect so that you don't get to enter fights with anyone searching for you because the ASRs suck at duels, and compensator makes you too evident on the minimap.
    • Up x 1
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