Why use anything other then the Carv?

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by phungus420, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. gunshooter

    Pretty much every single post you make is wrong. What you're saying is entirely unrelated to recoil, you're trying to say that the mcg is somehow amazingly accurate "once it begins firing" because you're a below 1:1 kdr player who can't make sense of anything you read or look at. Hey look, if you hipfire guns at a wall the gun with a set circular spread with minimal recoil will make an almost perfect circle. Truly amazing revelations, very relevant to a practical combat situation where due to low initial ads cof/bloom you will land many more shots with much more precision unless the enemy covers your entire reticle.

    But you don't actually play the game (at a level that is relevant to gun balance, anyway) so i'm sure none of this matters to you. Theory all day. Still waiting for you to prove that you have ever logged into Planetside 2.
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  2. Kyutaru

    Every post I make is thoughtful, well laid out, supported by evidence, and confirmed by 2000 years of geometry. I'm always proving you wrong about something and you always fail to come up with a reasonable counterargument that proves YOUR point. On the other hand, I'm sure there's a huge reward available to the poster who can find the post in your history that isn't hostile, demeaning, insulting, etc toward someone. You're a big fan of spouting one-liners and nonsense paragraphs that attack the person rather than the stance and when all else fails you resort to insinuating a lack of skill about players you LITERALLY know nothing about.

    Just like a common troll. A dime a dozen on every forum.

    That might have worked on a high school kid, you must be young still. The game lacks an ignore feature and every post you make on these forums is bristling with vitriolic acid, moderators have had to step in numerous times to control your nerd rage. Like hell I'm allowing that during game time with no instant mute button.

    As for how the MCG's divine PRECISION applies to its ACCURACY (two different words, learn the difference):

    [IMG]

    FYI, folks... this is coming from someone who wields the CARV as their favorite weapon and sprays half a clip just to kill someone at midrange, something the T32 will do in fifteen shots or less. Proof. Talking about landing shots with more precision is something CARV users need to stay far, far away from. Of all the weapons listed in this topic, the CARV's "precision" is by far the WORST and you don't even need the pictures to see that... it's all right there in the spreadsheets!

    If these revelations were so obvious, you wouldn't have needed them spelled out for you. Your "skill" is limited to cheese tactics that preserve your precious KD, your most played class is Engineer (vehicles, yay!), and we won't ever find you on the frontlines or in an assault on a Bio Lab. Perhaps you can teach a class on teleporting.

    Ta-ta!
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  3. TheBloodEagle

    You say that like I'm the one that spent the time making those. :rolleyes:
    Always gotta throw in a patronizing remark somewhere huh.
  4. Kyutaru

    I keep him around because he amuses me with his silly antics. I'm a father with two kids so this is like practice for the future.

    After all, kids say the darnedest things!
  5. CaptAmazing

    Couldn't agree more.
  6. KnightCole

    Nope, TR shouldnt use anything but the CARV. Its the only gun the TR have that sprays enough bullets fast enough to make up for the TR's horrid recoil and poor damage. Whoever says anything about CARV and precision? its just a point, Hold LMB, profit kinda gun...its how i got 1120 some odd kills with it.....just that the recoil nerf kinda ruined my fun...

    I used the TMG50 and T16 clear up to the 100 cert medal....so, no, im not just spouting BS, I actually used the guns for awhile.

    CARV just works the best of them all. T32 is just beaut though. Then again, its new and SoE wants people to buy it. Once its sold enough, guess what? NERF!
  7. {joer

    Being I do most of my fighting at CQC I still like the MSW over all of them. I have the Bull certed out, and meh, I want the points back. I have the Carv-S certed out and double meh, waste of certs posts nerf. MSW + adv laser is very good for CQC, I miss the old Carv-S but its like using a peashooter now, killing only the inept while a skilled NC or VS will melt your face before you take down his shields.

    MSW is basically an orion and I can clean out a room with it.
  8. Shark

    I was unaware of the stealth-nerfs, thanks for correcting me.
  9. HerpTheDerp

    The only change to T9 CARV was nerfing its horizontal recoil from 0.2 to 0.225.

    Anyone saying that the weapon was fine before and now is **** obviously doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
  10. Kyutaru

    The topic isn't one discussing what the best gun is, it's discussing alternatives to the CARV. The CARV can't be an alternative to itself. You're absolutely right that despite the CARV's horrible precision, it still functions well just by spraying tons of bullets at the target. It's just that if you hate that style and are looking for something that conserves your clip count better (like say if you're a disgruntled NC player who was forced to come play TR because his outfit picked this god forsaken faction) then there are other guns that favor accuracy and skill over the CARV. They're not as simply as point-click-spray, but they're just as effective because of headshot accuracy. Before the CARV was lethal AND accurate, now it's just lethal.
  11. {joer

    To the user if the other guy as a clue, in my opinion. I feel I kill faster with my repeater.
  12. alecholman


    There are better guns for CQC like the MSW-R.
  13. CaoCow

    Kyutaru, you are objectively wrong in this. Magdump negatives of bullet holes in walls as some sort of metric for a weapon's effectiveness are utterly useless. As he said, what SHOULD be measured are short bursts of 10-15 shots, scoped in. Sure, we get to see the "maximum CoF bloom/horizontal recoil", but this is entirely useless information.

    If you are hipfiring at all, with the exception of the MCG, you are missing 90% of your shots due to the wild inaccuracy of LMGs, in addition to the movement accuracy penalty. Which, by the way, these pictures do not give a precise accounting of. They don't measure where the pattern starts and stops in given timeframes, only its theoretical maximum bloom. Which no one who isn't a complete idiot will ever reach.

    Also, if you are hipfiring at all, period, you are doing it wrong and panicking. You should always scope and track; there is absolutely no reason to do otherwise.

    Also, no one as close as the "head model" in your screenshots is going to stay in front of you long enough for you to spin the MCG up and shoot them. They will run toward and through you, shoot you 2-3 times and knife you before you can even figure out what direction they're in, much less start firing. Good luck tracking them at that range, too, when lateral movement is as fast as it is in PS2.
  14. wabbitseason

    The point of those close-up plots, as so many people totally fail to grasp, is this:


    TO REMOVE THE EFFECT OF COF AND SHOW PURELY THE EFFECT OF RECOIL.

    They aren't mag dumps. They're 11 and 15 round bursts, exactly what you're asking for.
  15. Kyutaru

    Hi gunshooter.

    4 posts to date
    3 likes on gunshooter posts
    same ideology and writing pattern
    vendetta against me

    Oh, and FYI, as wabbitseason said, they're 11-round bursts. Which would make you objectively wrong about the test itself, it's exactly what you wanted it to be, short bursts of 10-15 shots. I missed that part just as everyone else did, yet it only adds to the validity of the images seeing how the complaints from the detractors were that magdumps are useless. Fifteen individual 11-round bursts overlayed upon each other to create an "average" spread display. So what was your complaint again, gunshooter?

    Magdump or 11-round burst, they continue to reinforce my stance either way. :)

    Remove the factor of COF to get true recoil, I said the same thing in the 20th post, just using a different method. :eek:

    Looks like we agree that COF removal is critical to a successful recoil test. If only some people would realize the same.
  16. Kyutaru

    Soul-crushing fun continued...

    The incorrect magdump comment aside, these were recoil tests. They were never a metric for the weapon's effectiveness, only an illustration of the recoil patterns. If you paid attention to the comments made, the first few posts dealt with weapon effectiveness based on actual game experience while the posts after the recoil test was posted cited the most precise weapons based on a combination of the recoil tests and the default COF spreads. Weapon effectiveness is not something bullet sprays alone can tell without considering ROF and bullet damage. You failed to grasp that.

    Horizontal recoil is one of the least commonly known stats of the weapons due to its absence from a certain popular spreadsheet. With vertical recoil being easily managed and human-shaped targets being small horizontally than they are vertically, horizontal recoil matters a great deal and knowing the horizontal recoil of a weapon plays a huge part in determining how accurate the weapon is. Coincidentally, the weapons with the best horizontal recoil also had the best COF spreads, so the comparison was easy. You failed to grasp that.

    The images are only recoil tests, nothing more. You're dismissing the results of a STATIONARY test on recoil patterns because the test isn't portraying MOVEMENT accuracy. So the test is worthless to you because it doesn't prove something it never sought to prove in the first place. That's like claiming you might still have cancer because your flu test came back negative. Only a fool can argue against that statement, yet it holds no relevancy to what was being tested in the first place. You failed to grasp that.

    This test had no connection to hipfire vs ADS, it was purely to show the recoil patterns. You can do that with hipfire -or- ADS, the recoil doesn't change between the two. The shape of the spreads will, and they'll be more centralized in ADS mode, but the relationships between the guns would not. High recoil guns would still create high recoil patterns while low recoil guns would still create low recoil patterns. Also, hipfiring is not done for TTK, it's done to gain a 50% movement advantage on your enemy and dodge his ADS shots, it's defensive in nature. You failed to grasp that.

    That image isn't made for PlanetSide 2 nor is it to scale nor is it meant to be a CQC comparison, it's purely a representation of why precision is important for a person who failed to grasp the importance of precision. It's actually one of those "IT'S OBVIOUS" images that I had to pull up for a "IT'S OBVIOUS" situation. Precise fullauto means more bullets hit the target, as opposed to narrowly whizzing past it despite your aim being true. When applied to upper body firing, it also means more headshots during fullauto. You failed to grasp that.

    You say this not two sentences after denouncing hipfire. Contradict yourself more, or just be contrary to everything and let logic elude you purely to be spiteful. This quote lists exactly what hipfire is good for as well, it grants you a lateral movement and tracking advantage over an enemy looking down his scope. You failed to grasp that.

    [To the Audience]
    Bear in mind, folks... we already know gunshooter and his pals are trolls who will literally say anything to be contrary, especially if it's someone they don't like (and as previously mentioned, posting history suggests that includes just about everyone). But I continue to break down his posts and weed through his antagonism not for myself or to attempt to convince what is irredeemably a lost cause of COD ego, but for all of you, so that you may always have the correct information and not be led astray by sociopaths.
  17. Kedric

    The CARV is a great all around weapon.

    The MSW-R beats the CARV for close range.

    The TMG-50 beats the CARV for long range.

    Since I am a dedicated Heavy user I use the MSW-R for close range and the TMG-50 for long range, going back to CARV if I'm not sure what I'll be facing. If you're short on certs or want to spend them on something else, then just get some attachments for the CARV and call it a day. You could do a lot worse.
  18. ent|ty

    You can buy the TSR-W or w/e for 1000 Certs, and it gives you the same accuracy as default gun, but with 1 bar more damage and shorter reload time.. oh and smaller clip. In other words, wtf... I just wasted certs or SC.
  19. CloverHead

    Because the chaingun is much more fun, and if it didn't have the revup, it'd be a direct upgrade (in my eyes).
  20. Balm

    There is no reason to use anything other than the CARV/. It's worse than it was, but it's still a better all-rounder than other weapons. Which is why SOE nerfed it in the first place, and why they will further reduce its effectiveness or order to pigeon-hole players into feeling like they need to spend SC on a weapon that fulfills the role they want to play.

    Having a 'do it all' generic starter weapon isn't how you make money, and it is why they nerfed the CARV-S into the ground, and gave the CARV a bit of a nerf too.

    They don't need to adjust VS starter weaponry though, because the VS don't spend their SC on infantry weapons. They spend it on vehicle upgrades.
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