NC Hacksaw is too effective in MAX duels

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Cryptek, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Naithe

    Well I've tested those tactics now, and aside from the point with the launch pads, there is really no scenario even those posted, atleast in a bio lab, where a scat max won't win, the only way to beat it with cyclers is overwhelming numbers which is hard to say is a good way to balance things.

    Max vs max, even from fairly long distance such as say A-C in a biolab, from across the room, a clip of hacksaws takes you to half health in a max unit. And that is only if both sides don't charge eachother. So unless we get a sort of ADS mode for VS/TR maxes(to better utilise the increased "range"), it is really only favouring the NC, especially in Biolabs, under any circumstances aside from fights with over whelming numbers. (where the sheer amount of Max units make up for the relatively slow TTK per unit.)
  2. Arcanum

    Quit your whining, the only faction that deserves a good CQC MAX is NC because we're supposed to hit hard.
    /sarcasm
  3. perspicacious

    Have any of you tried a dual AV max against another max?
  4. Meh.

    Out of all the max VS got the best, that cannon reloads so fast. I swear the number of times that crap one shot me with like 3-5 bars of shield down is just stupid. Nc Max shotgun is petty hardcore at close, but still it never oneshot me maybe 2 or 3 but not one like VS. Kinda easy to kite NC max with someone because the sorter long reload ;].
  5. Arcanum

    People actually use dual AV? Seriously, never seen that in-game.
  6. zomaya

    Dual Hacksaw's are noob cannons.

    Dual Hacksaw's with extended mags are for noobier noobs.
  7. Naithe

    VS do, I've seen it, for better or worse. =)

    Think its because they feel its more of a threat against infantry, and well I can agree they are scary considering how the lad, killed me hard when I saw him as TR. =)

    Still AV maxes, just aren't better then "peekaboo" HA's are they? They might have higher sustained dps, but their ability to suprice attack in the **** is near nill, so its like they are meant to "tank" the damage while dealing it.

    Really think devs need to rethink max AV, based on how AV works for HA.

    EDIT: A bit offtopic, but anyone else noticed if you sa Hacksaw several times quickly it sounds like you are saying Hax0r!!11

    Okay time for bed now I guess.
    • Up x 1
  8. Spectre9000

    IMHO in a straight up fight, NC should win. Hands down. NC are made to be brutes. Brutes win straight up fights. I don't see a problem with this. Stop MAX vs MAX fights and mow down some infantry or vehicles, or find the area you're best at and play it.
  9. SwishTM

    You have no idea what you are talking about.
  10. Cryptek

    I don't have a problem with them being the best, maybe.. having a 1.5 or 2 times faster TTK than a VS/TR MAX.. but no, they have a 6 times better TTK against MAXes, that is not acceptable, especially when hacksaws allow you to kill a MAX in just a little over a second at a rather sickening range, when compared to normal shotguns in the game.

    Do I want them to be useless? No

    Do I want them to lose a straight up fight to a VS/TR MAX? No

    Do I want to have at least a chance them? YES.
    • Up x 1
  11. Bill Hicks

    ahahahahahahahaahaha max duels? Why would sony balanced around duels? If one has a shotgun and the other a cannon. shotgun should win in close quarters. Also if you are a max and your are fighting a max, you are dumb. You should be fighting against
    regular infantry and vehicles.
  12. Pudgeinabowl

    It's
    It's what happens when 2 MAX crashes engage each other. A bucketload of MAX suits fighting, just so happens that the hacksaw dominates that range and area completely.
  13. UnDeaD_CyBorG

    I use dual AV on my VS MAX.
    I only regretted it since I bought that second Comet, but often for other reasons than the actual gun Combo.
    It's pretty solid against Tank Pushes because you got so much ammo, and you can mostly win a fight against a single Infantryman at mid range.
    However, against Maxes or in a Biolab Brawl, I'd rather use AI guns, as much as they suck.
    Even though my Cosmos isn't bad, it's just no match to Shotguns.
    Good comparison is actually the stats table.
    TR and VS Max AI weapons are mostly the equivalent of LMGs, sometimes with more damage, but always with less rpm and often projectile speed, as well.
    NC AI weapons, on the other hand, are pretty close to full fledged shotguns, which explains their insane close up dps.
    I'm rather certain at 10m, I'm more lethal against MAXes with a Heavy with Autoshotgun than a Max with two Comets.
  14. Spookerton

    There is no single engagement wherein two MAX units are on an equal footing. There should be no single engagement wherein two MAX units are opposed unsupported. A proper MAX engagement is only proper for one of the sides involved, because the other side screwed up.

    If you are rushing headlong into the arms of the enemy alone and to the detriment of your empire's strengths, it's time to re-evaluate your strategy. Typically for the VS and TR, good strategy involves staying out of the effective range of the opponent who can kill them in a heartbeat[1] if they club grind, but has a CoF that at 10m is roughly the size of Indar.[2]

    If you are as truly lacking in spatial awareness as you purport to be, here's the skinny:
    There is no important space in the three continents that is small enough or has few enough entrances to force you into direct close contact with a hacksaw MAX unless you are personally creating the situations in which you have your *** handed to you by playing like you are modern batman and the enemy is a comic gang from the late 1930's.

    " My MAX is not an immovable object.
    My MAX is not an unstoppable force.
    The blue MAX does not like hugs. "
    Repeat until enlightenment.



    [1] It's closer to 1.8 seconds if both arms hit with every shot at under about 8 meters, by the way, or ... well. A -long- time if they don't.
    [2] For the record, dual falcons rocks my world. I'm learning to prefer it to hacksaws; just gotta aim right, and the range is terrifyingly sweet.
    • Up x 1
  15. Dasmasterneko

    Blue MAX does like hugs. Very very much. That is why he is so good at it.
    • Up x 1
  16. Ender

    NC max's should instagib infantry, it's what they're good at. They should not however, be able to instagib up to 2 maxs without reloading. Because pellets will miss, that won't happen, but a single VS/TR max with 3 max repair engies healing them will lose to a single dual hacksaw max no contest. 4v1 and the 4 getting obliterated is not balance sorry. You could double the refire rate of those things and they'd still annihilate any infantry and maxes, except they'd have a bit of a chance to get away or get lucky then. In it's current state the dual hacksaw is broken in regards to it's ability to dispatch other maxs.

    Dual AV is worse than Dual AI in a max vs max fight. I tried it, two comets do **** damage to another max, you'll be dead to the hacksaw before you finish your reload. Max's are basically considered infantry with 10k hp.
    • Up x 1
  17. Spookerton

    They can't.

    This is literally impossible unless the VS/TR max doesn't shoot, walks up and taps the NC MAX on the ***, and begs to meet god. Oh, and the engineers just watch and wait to die. I mean, why would three engineers use weapons against an enemy? Unthinkable.

    I can and have on multiple occasions engaged MAX units of all three empires in hide and shoot games with regular infantry primaries, and I have a decent kill rate in those situations because I don't plow my face up against their chest and giggle like a schoolgirl. A third of a squad that is incapable of the same with a MAX on their side as well should probably take up competitive synchronized dance instead.

    Do not hug the blue MAX.

    Do not hug the blue MAX.

    DO NOT HUG THE BLUE MAX.

    Why would you engage at hacksaw range (where you can smell their breath, which is invariably terrible because of all the freedom hooch) when you could engage at the actual optimum for the weapon you are using (where you cannot, because you cannot even see the whites of their eyes yet, tally ho). Re-evaluate your engagement protocol or play NC if that is the only range you are comfortable fighting at.

    Not quite 10k. A T9 carv can wipe out any MAX in a brief engagement if you aim for the head and have any concept of fire control. You can do the same with the NS-11. I hardly play sparkle team, but I hear good (read: the same) things about their infantry weapons for the same purpose.
  18. Ender

    Way to take several of my points out of context, I said they can't, not all the pellets will hit. I did say, "That won't happen," didn't I?

    Where have you been the last few days? Dual hacksaws with extended clips will kill a max outright, leaving no time for the engineers repair to do anything. If you think i'm lying, test it out. Look at the raw damage numbers of the max's in stats thread on the first page. You don't play hide and seek with a dual hacksaw ever, you play fall and die unless they aren't looking.

    In biolabs, you don't have a choice but to engage at their range. It's not because we prefer to giggle and run up to them. Nobody wants to get anywhere near them, and everyone knows it. Nobody runs up to them on purpose so quit implying we are. Even a kid with downs-syndrome would figure that out quickly. A serpent and H-V45 can also almost take a max out with all headshots as well, but that isn't relevant when they have engineers repairing them while ducking behind corners.

    None of my arguments were about infantry running up to an NC max and getting gibbed anyways. The Dual AV comment was in response to the question earlier in the thread, "has anyone tried dual AV against other maxs." Did you not read the thread and just saw the first thing you wanted to pounce on?

    I'm not sure why i'm arguing those points though, the topic of the thread is that they are too powerful vs other maxs. I've stated multiple times that they should instagib infantry, no problem with that. You say that with a dual hacksaw it's virtually impossible to instagib a max though? Then go on to say they they don't quite have 10k hp? So they have less, and a dual hacksaw can theoretically put out around 20k damage in 2.4 seconds. What part of your logic am I missing?

    Way to analyze my post in every other way not related to max vs max though, please stay on topic.
  19. Monnor

    Our max scatters have access to slugs, the are not limited to close quarter. And they are scatters guns, they should hurt, if you cant stand it, evade. BUT STOP WHINING.
  20. Niv

    So basically the NC AI max only good at bio lab fight, well that not big surprise since its the only base where fight are almost face to face and since the NC Max only good at 10 meter fight they better then ur Maxes on those base while in amp/tech base u can keep ur distance and shoot them from nice distance and kill them.
    Another thing the hacksaw run of ammo quickly that mean in 1 on 1 in face to face the Nc max will win but if he shoot all he got fast he be left out of ammo for nice amount of time, that even single infantry with shotgun can kill him in face to face, just like i kill TR Maxes who got that dual cycler, i let him spent his ammo and then rush towards him with my piston and killed him in 3 sec, just learn way to counter maxes and u be fine.