Aggresive LA - comparison between NC AF-19 Merc and VS Solstice

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Jablon, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Jablon

    Some people say that NC guns pack more punch, therefore are better suited for aggressive play. I decided to test that. My philosophy here, is that you'll be doing better job with tool that's better suited for your needs. So I've looked at the default guns for both NC and Vanu, whom I suspected to be better based on my performance by playing both empire's LA.

    This comparison mostly is based on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=12 chart. It's titled "PS2 Weapon Data Sheets DEC12 Game Patch 1" so I assume it has the newest, post patch data in it. My subjective impressions from using both weapons in game are also consistent with the data sheets, so I assume the numbers are correct in all cases.

    Damage

    Code:
    WEAPON NAME     Bullet Max Damage       Bullet Min Damage       ~ROF    
    AF-19 Mercenary 167 @ 10m (100200 dpm)  125 @ 75m (75000 dpm)   600 rpm 
    Solstice        143 @ 10m (99814 dpm)   100 @ 115m (69800 dpm)  698 rpm
    Please note that AF-19 reach it's min damage at 75m while Solstice reach it at 115m.

    As you can see, AF-19 deals more damage per bullet, but shoots slower - less rounds per minute (rpm). Overall damage per minute (dpm) is higher.

    To put that data in context, let's compare time to kill (assuming 100% accuracy, TTK) and bullets to kill (BTK) for each weapons at both max and min damage.

    Code:
    Max dpm  
              TTK       BTK 
    AF-19     0.599s  5,9880 
    Solstice  0.601s  6,9930 
      
    Min dpm! 
              TTK       BTK 
    AF-19     0.800s  8 
    Solstice  0.860s  10 
    
    Difference in TTK at extremely close distances between both weapons are negligible (2ms). In this case, network latency has way grater impact that the weapon used. AF-19 needs one less bullet to kill (6 vs 7), which means it can theoretically kill 5 enemies per magazine as opposed to Solstice which can kill only 4 (again, assuming 100% accuracy, no headshots).

    Direct comparison at medium ranges is difficult because I don't have data about Solstice bullet damage at 50-75m. Depending on the rate of damage/range fall-off (linear, quadratic or other) Solstice might even do more dpm at that distance.

    At 100+ meters AF-19 does more damage, and has shorter TTK, but difference is still not significant (60ms, which is still below average human reaction time ~220ms and not therefore not giving much edge).

    Reload time

    Code:
     
     
    WEAPON NAME   Reload Time 
    AF-19         1.76s 
    Solstice      1.65s
    At first I thought that those numbers must be wrong, as Solstice reload feels much quicker, but turns out it's not the case (I've checked it with a stopwatch :p). Solstice reloads faster, but the difference is not significant.

    Accuracy

    Code:
    WEAPON NAME     Recoil         First Shot Recoil Mult  COF Stand ADS Still/Move/Jump  COF Crouch ADS Still/Move  COF Stand Hip Still/Move/Sprint/Jump  COF Crouch Hip Still/Move    COF Bloom per Shot 
    AF-19 Mercenary 0.4 ↑ , ← = →  1.75x (0.7)             0.03/0.3/3                     0.03/0.15                  1.5/2/5/7                             1/1.5                        ADS: 0.06, HIP: 0.12        
    Solstice        0.25 ↑ , →     2.8x (0.7)              0.1/0.25/3                     0.1/0.15                   1.5/2/5/7                             1/1.5                        ADS: 0.05, HIP: 0.1
    While both weapons suffer the same amount of initial "kick" after firing the first round, each gun behaves vastly different during automatic fire.

    Solstice has one of the softest recoil in it's class (in fact it's surpassed only by other VS carbine - Serpent) and it's accuracy loss is slower than its NC counterpart.

    AF-19 has much, much higher average recoil (to put that into perspective: it recoils as much as Orion or T9 CARV LMGs) and loses it's accuracy faster with each bullet fired.

    Basically, amount of recoil player needs to compensate for is 31% greater after 10 rounds, 34% after 20 rounds and 35% after 30 rounds (full magazine).

    When moving (eg. strafing), Solstice is has 17% smaller cone of fire (COF) than AF-19.

    On the other hand, AF-19 is 33% more accurate (CoF only, I'm not counting recoil here) when fired form standing or crouching still, but loses that advantage after 7th bullet has been fired (due to faster COF bloom).

    Conclusions

    Solstice beats AF-19 in every scenario. While NC's gun has slightly better damage on paper, Solstice's average ~20%* better accuracy means it also does average ~20% more damage. It's also easier to control, reloads faster and higher RoF means enemies will "flinch" more, giving you an edge in 1v1 situation.

    *17% from smaller COF and 3% to account for lesser recoil - it looks better when it's a nice round number :)
    • Up x 2
  2. Autarkis

    +1 for thoughtfully-veiled request to nerf VS weapons. They'd love you in General Discussion.

    You've highlighted the well-known tradeoffs to each empire's guns. Burst your NC guns and be happy.
    • Up x 1
  3. JonboyX

    Burst fire to be equal? Or burst fire to increase ttk and lose?
    What do you mean autarkis? Are you saying from his numbers that burst firing NC will then make you win more often than not? Or are you saying you've got to burst fire in order to stand a chance?
  4. ChironV

    Aim for their chest, let recoil pull shots up to head and get a headshot. Profit.
    • Up x 2
  5. MykeMichail

    Yes, we'll burst our guns whilst you fire a steady stream of bullets into our faces to **** up our aim.

    Love that balance!
  6. MykeMichail

    Burst fire and hope the VS guy is really bad.

    I got the AC-X11, which drops people pretty fast, but only has a 20 round magazine. If I get the drop on someone I can usually down people before they can return fire but once they start shooting back the small magazine size really shows - you just can't afford to miss with this gun, and every bullet you take throws off your aim.
  7. Niric

    That guy would be me. In a strait up no flank -see each other at the same time and start shooting- fight the NC and the TR LA's both always win. I'm a terrible shot in all honestly. In several cases I'll get a full jump on an NC or TR LA and start shooting - they sprint off at amazing speed behind the nearest cover, turn aim and strafe fire out of cover on me and I die. Happens to me many times a night. Like I said, im not a great shot, or not even a great player in general.

    My bad skills aside, these fractional details like this don't make or break a truly measurable amount of your fights. Most people will react that way and you'll end up getting gunned down mid reload. I even use it on heavies waiting for a reload, and it works out for me from time to time, especially if they're using ADS to try and headshot you in CQB.

    -Niric
  8. Jablon

    I don't want my Solstice to be nerfed. I love my Solstice :(

    I think those two weapons are actually pretty well balanced, they are just suited for different jobs. You want raw power - go Solstice. You want to play sneaky-sneaky and ambush people behind the enemy lines? AF-19 is much better for that, since it's much more ammo efficient, which mean you can actually drop few people without running out of ammo. More uptime hunting - more kills. Most of the time anyway.

    Solstice devours bullets like crazy, which means you can't stray too far from ammo source. But it makes it up with killing potential.
  9. Niric

    Well, I don't think its fair to only compare only 2 factions weapons anyway. How does the TR stack up in this "Aggressive LA Comparison" and why were they left out? Hasn't it been confirmed by the Devs that the NC have some buffs coming?

    Also shouldn't we comparing the best CQB carbines for the factions instead in this "aggressive" evaluation?

    -Niric
  10. {joer

    The Solstice is great for LA. Odds are if I would have tried that first I'd not be playing TR. Out of the box it does as well if not better than my lynx with advanced laser sighting. I use it more with the sights though while I find the lynx best for hipfire.
  11. Jablon

    I don't play TR, I have almost 0 experience with their weapons. From data chart only, they seem to be even more powerful but... with Solstice I feel like I'm already wasting some of my bullets due to its impressive RoF. And TR carbine shoots even faster. That should give it the edge in CQC, but on any other distance I feel like a lot of bullets would be spend on making noise, but not that much in effect departament.

    But again, I don't play TR, so I don't know.

    I compared guns I play with and I see lot of people playing with. I don't have access to best NC and VS CQB carbines yet, and judging weapons on stats only, without using them in action is kinda pointless.
  12. frajerik

    Simple fix - give NC soldiers immunity to this flinch which f***s up your aim when youre being hit... and then..then watch TR/VS cry.

    VS/TR doesnt understand that you cant aim when youre being hit by 1000 low damage bullets but every bullet ads inaccuracy to your aim combined with default bad accuracy of NC weapons = NC weapons lose most time,

    NC weapons win when you kill somebody from back or he has 50% hp etc. Equal fight vs VS/TR = fail.
  13. Bill Hicks


    oh thanks for the tip- ill aim for the chest while the VS aims for my head
  14. Achmed20

    what i dont get,
    if the weapons are statwhise this close, why does the average NC gun has so much more recoil?
    is it to compensate for the accuracy we have while not moving?

    i'd realy love to hear an official explanation about this.
  15. yama

    I appreciate all the effort you put in this mate.

    But I cannot help but to mention this:
    The chances of the only thing deciding weather or not you are loosing a fight against another LA or engineer is the gun and not player skill, positioning, outside influence or plain luck are so rare that people should really stop going on and on and on about it.

    You cannot say "one gun is better on paper, but" Without going to the same lengths and stop comparing players and situations as equal on the same sheet.

    I'm really tired of splitting hair like this.
  16. Jablon

    Giving "flinching" immunity to one side will not help balance things.
    Making it proportional to damage received is more reasonable solution.


    I personally don't think that recoil itself is that much of a problem. Sure, having less recoil is better than having more, but after a while you start compensating for it instinctively, so it doesn't affect your accuracy that much. At least not on the distances that carbine should be used.
    • Up x 1
  17. perspicacious

    The only issue is recoil and flinching. Otherwise these are nicely balanced.
    • Up x 1
  18. Spiffmeister

    Wait did I read that right.... The whole first half of the post was on how the NC weapon was slightly better than at the end you said the NC one was worse? You shouldn't need to worry about the moving while firing accuracy because you shouldn't need to move while firing. If you're playing LA the idea isn't to go head to head against enemies it's about out maneuvering and attacking from where they aren't looking (like a roof).
  19. Achmed20

    i dont have a problem with recoil either, i just dont get it. what is it suppose to balance out?
  20. piggy

    as TR LA i think the Solstice is melting me alot rather fight VS all day.