A dedicated pilot - the current Air situation

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Nerhesi, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Ouch Electric


    Also, if he is so close, the cannon is about as effective as missiles, and possibly more effective.
  2. EmptyBox007

    Tying this into another thread on here about how boring defensive weapons like the Skyguard are...

    Why not have an upgrade to allow a tank turret to have more elevation to it? Most of my killing of flying machines comes from my trusty Vanguard on guys who thought they were safe. Yet they have a rather limited elevation (all tanks, including the Lightning non Skyguard) - which means they can basically come in at you at a still rather shallow angle and fire away.

    Even a 10 degree elevation increase would probably drastically change the situation.
  3. Nerhesi

    More than a few responses, I'll try to address them based on the wealth of experience I have.

    I'm definitely over a 5 to 1 kill ratio in air to air. I have only gotten air to air missile two days ago. I have the gold/platinum/whatever medal for rotary kill. 90% of my play time in the air has been A2G rocket pods and rotary. I was always of the mind that "herp derp, you don't need A2A".

    You don't need A2A - they are not noobish like some of you say. A noob is defined as someone that doesn't know what they're doing or is new to something. This would be people not using A2A for air-hunting. Noobs don't use the best tool for the job. I would love not to have to use the A2A missile, I love guns. However, I would be stupid not to use A2A if I notice significant enemy air around.

    You will not dodge the missile. This is false, I can gaurantee you having out maneuvered them like a pro (they will do complete 180s, several times within the span of seconds, and circle around you until they hit or run out of fuel).

    You will not out run the missile if I'm on you. I am not new. I will not get a lock on you from max range. You will be hit by my missiles if you see "lock". Your only hope is to have them hit the ground clutter (see below).

    My missiles will almost never hit ground clutter - because my angle of approach, energy, and launch will ensure that they don't go down to that level until they're hitting you. Don't forget trying to hump ground means you are food for my rotary because your maneuvers will be obvious.

    Yes I run stealth and flares. I can tell who the good pilots are and who the bad ones are, the good ones just take longer to be killed. Yes there are a ton of bad pilots. This is why I waited this long to analyse the game and post my findings.

    Finally, about dual burster max - perhaps it should be more powerful than the skyguard as it is now, but I still think both should be improved slightly. I should have huge consequence to coming up super close and trying to hover 50 meters above infantry while I farm them. 50-60% damage is not huge consequences.
  4. Nerhesi

    “I think the point the op was trying to make is that he would tail you close enough to prevent escape. The failed logic in this case however is that if he is so close there is nothing preventing the enemy ESF from turning around and changing the situation from a chase into a dogfight.”

    Your statement is flawed here. I already demonstrated why your are incorrect. You have to be able to immediately find the person on you, which you won't with stealth. Even then, the person is already ahead of you, has his flares up and is cannoning you while you're turning and looking for them. In every scenario, I'm guaranteeing you die first. Unless I am terrible at keeping you in my sights, between rotary and missile lock, you're down before you bring me to even half.

    A2A should definitely have the advantage, but at the moment, it is way too simple and fool proof.
  5. Rown

    I feel entirely unqualified to speak about GTA damage as I've been killed by it exactly once, and it was a base turret. I'm personally much more scared of trees when flying a plane.
  6. notyourbuddy

    Its all *beep beep beep* LOCK ON LOCK ON spam. Seems to be getting worse as people start certing decreased reload, increase lock on range, and decrease lock on time.

    These weapons can be evaded then other times these missiles pull crazy ---- like rapid full stop u-turns straight out of Looney Toons. Gets even more annoying when you are locked on, pull off 5-6 crazy manuevers behind obstacles and yet it keeps beeping LOCK ON LOCK ON. 15-20 seconds for the lock on to go away? I don't know if its a bug or the missile is just jerking off, but these lock-on weapons have taken the skill and fun out of flying. Where are the dogfights? Anyone? Anyone? Its been a week since I've been shot down by any FLAK or another pilots primary. Only imagine this getting worse and worse as more people keep unlocking HA and A2A's.
  7. Gunnisson

    Nerhesi what server are you on?
  8. Str8Dumpin

    BR19 is like 1 day in game. Sick conclusions.
  9. CoreDave

    While I agree that the A2A missiles are annoying and overly difficult (but not impossible) to avoid. To counter that though I would point out that using A2A missiles is the only realistic way to take on large numbers of enemy fighters, trying to dog fight with the nose gun when fighting 2+ to 1 is virtually impossible assuming a reasonable level of competence. The time needed to destroy an ESF with the nose gun alone even if you are quite accurate is simply to high. Also the A2A missile forces the target to take evasive action which often gives you time to engage another target.

    I'm not really sure what the answer is, if there was no A2A misses then nose guns would have to do a lot more damage. Making A2A missiles require you maintain the lock to work would be good, but it would make fighting multiple opponents trickier. Making them slower to turn and therefore making them easier to avoid is probably a good idea but I would also increase their fuel a bit to compensate.

    I also think they nerfed the flares too much going from 15s cooldown max certed to 25s cooldown is huge. 25s means you will probably only get to use the flares the one time in any given fight, at 15s you are still vulnerable for a fair amount of time but you should be able to get off the 2nd flare during an average fight.
  10. FurorPlacidus

    How about adding a Lead Bead to the HUD for skyguards and/or Buster MAX. Showing where you need to shoot to hit the target. This would increase the effectiveness of Flak against non evasive pilots, including dive bombing rocket spammers without increasing its effectiveness against those flying evasively.

    The Bead could even have a short lockon time of a few seconds, activated by Spotting.

    A non buff upgrade to Flak
  11. CoreDave

    I tell you what I really would like to see, a visual indication on the HUD of the distance away the incoming missile is and the angle of approach. This would make dodging much more skill based and less luck based.
  12. Nikolai_Grosnii

    I disagree with whoever started the thread on pretty much everything. Me and some guys went out with a bunch of bursters/GA + engineers, a little group of about 10 people and nailed a good couple dozen planes (NC mostly) the other day, plus mowing down a tad bit of infantry/armor after our position was compromised; I don't think there's any problem with AA or GA. As far as lone-wolf liberator bombing goes - the solution is to travel in packs, that's where strategy and teamwork comes into play. Otherwise, it seems like you're complaining about not being able to single-handedly take down squads and armies with just your own little self. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I got from your post - you like to lone-wolf it and don't like it when you get killed cause this game actually focuses on teamwork. So if you need AA/GA/AG support, work in a team (outfit anyone?) please. Otherwise quit whining.
  13. GoldmanSachs

    A2A missiles ruin air combat and everyone who disagrees needs to be castrated and blinded with acid immediately.
  14. DankBudha

    Sure, tone down the turn radius of A2A missiles. But, like I've said in another thread....I really wish people would just relax about how AA or any game balance issue is currently. Things will get buffed, nerfed, re-tuned, faction A will be stronger than B, then C will get buffed and be stronger than either. Also, due to cost of vehicles vs the MAX (in my opinion it shouldn't be a 1 to 1 unless you're ready for planes to cost 100, which devs have said is why AA doesn't kill more easily too btw) and how badly they managed AA in PS1 (too little at the release of the game, way too much 3 or 4 years in after adding 'more variety') I would strongly encourage people to give the game a month or two of being around to see how certs get spent by the average player base. There could easily be far too much AA after more people obtain more unlocks, and they have said they are going to add 'more variety' once again, which already worries me. Add in all base turrets can be upgraded and engineers able to lay some type of auto, or manned, AA and this whole debate starts to go the other way.

    When too many people complain too early, a lot of times devs have a knee jerk reaction that ends up harming the game more in the long run than they helped in the short term. I'm hoping this dev team doesn't make the same mistakes that the PS1 dev team did, but hey, we have speedhacking again right out of the gate so I have a hard time finding faith. All I hope is that people that read this take that into consideration when wanting changes so early after the game's release, I personally believe you're jumping the gun before the other runners have even stepped on the track.
  15. JakeLunn

    I agree only with A2A missiles being a problem. Granted, I'm a pretty crappy pilot, but those things frustrate me to no end. I have tried so hard to dodge them in the past, and sometimes I've been successful, but most of the time I see the missiles pull ridiculous maneuvers that don't even seem physically possible.

    Here is a physics-defying example I recorded today. Remember, I'm not a good pilot - but this missile defies physics.


    Just make them less maneuverable and more situational and I think they'd be fine.
  16. Jet Uppercut

    I just want to become a pilot because I'm tired of having a terrible K/D an earning certs so slow.
    I'd happily drop $7 on Rocket Pods or a Lib Cannon and get equivalent of a kill streak reward in CoD for as long as I can hover the thing over a spawn point.
    I hope they make it much harder for squads of pilots to just sit over a base and camp. If you're not hitting and running a base or trying to knock out AA first, you should get shot down instantly.
  17. FurorPlacidus

    Could replace A2A Missiles with Flak cannon on the ESFs. Make everything very dogfighty.
  18. Sykosis

    I would like to see a more realistic flight path for the missiles( no more 100g turns), and increased damage in infantry AA fire (Max/turret)
    For the argument of "a small group of Maxs/Turrets can lock down an area", it takes effort of multiple players (group) to keep an area safe, it takes 1 ESF doing in and out runs to kill them all anyway.
    All I know is that large air groups ALWAYS defeat larger ground groups, the damage output of air is at least 4x or 5x of any other individual unit, and they can leave, repair, and return (which is 90% of the time), giving them a huge advantage, a rocketing ESF should not be able to hover above pockets of infantry without knowing if he stays longer than a second he will die.
  19. Pin_Cushion

    I'm very new to this game, having only played it over the weekend. One thing I can't figure out is this.

    People that focus on ground/tank combat say rocket pods (aka "Bombers") are OP
    People that focus on bombing stuff with rocket pods say A2A missiles (aka "Interceptors") are OP

    Isn't the traditional defense against bombers interceptors? I mean, aren't interceptors SUPPOSED to be OP vs. bombers? Otherwise, what's the point? And aren't bombers supposed to be OP vs. ground units? Like, isn't that their job?

    Sorry, but I'm really new and just trying to understand how it all fits together. I notice in fights where the enemy has an air advantage, and my side doesn't really bother with ground AA and doesn't have any interceptors to harass the bombers, we just get ripped apart.
  20. Dhart

    Wish the Hawk Missiles were this persistent. How about some consistency?!