Just dont die - Time to educate developers. (video)

Hello fellow soldiers of the futute.

I invite you to follow this link and watch this video, as I can embed it since it isn't on youtube as of yet. But fear not it will be soon enough. This little video the SOE really need to watch and understand if we want to get a better planetside 2. Anyway, that being said enjoy; http://extra-credits.net/episodes/counter-play/

Credits to extra-credits.

Bump for visibility, also if you took the time to watch the video tell me what you think of it or simply bump this thread. The developers, especialy lead developers need to understand that concept.

Agreed, excellent video, SOE could learn a thing or two from the "counter play" concept.

An example of bad counter play would probably be BF3, where the AC 130 gunship would completely ruin the rush game play. Not so much because it was overpowered but because it was not fun to play against. Bad counter play killed it.

Bad examples of counter play in PS2:
- Dog fighting. Except for retreating to your troops, there's little chance to beat somebody on your tail.
- The zerg, we need better tools to fight it: Better scouting/ heat mapping/ detection, better counter weapons (choke/ambush points, mortar strikes, etc.)
- Tech plants need more ways to bypass its defenses

see alot fo people complaining the game is dull, thats their no story, or PVE. I dont get it, its a MMOFPS, not a MMOFPSRPG.

Did you come to PS2 to see dungeons and a epic story line and spend your time killing 10x "Diseased Archanids" to get 5x "Vile serum" to coat your lvl 50 "Archanid Chest plate armor"??? This is a FPS, like BF3, like COD, just bigger and more epic. Is there a point to COD/BF3 other then getting the best score and ranked on the leaderboards? No, atleast in PS2 compared to other FPS their is a point to the game other then stroking your own ego on a leaderboard. Why complain, this isnt WoW or EQ2, no story to follow, no PVE. Now grab a rifle soldier and get in the war!

P.S. Sorry just seen people constantly saying their is no story or content or the game is dull, and im wondering what AD or friend told them something other then epic battles, base capturing and continent conquering.

credit to ShakareeNC

@op me and the true planetside players that know this game can only be 1 way,will always fight with you with threads like these,we will be here a long time.”

Counterplay? This game is rock paper scissors. If you're rock, the only counterplay is to hunt down scissors, and stay the hell away from paper. No matter what role you choose in this game, there are other roles designed to kill you, and they will do their job.

You can only take RPS so far. Soon you have too few scissors, too many rocks, and not enough paper to stop them.

And then more people need to invest in paper.

This game has tons of counterplay. It's simply not obvious, because everyone wants to be Rambo, and doesn't realize that the counterplay is in teamwork.

I thought the dogfight example someone gave was a laughable one, because clearly their idea of Counterplay was to have an answer to everything, and being able to do anything, which makes for a boring game. The counterplay is that there are no real Jack-Of-All-Trades in Planetside 2, all things have several glaring weaknesses. The fact that an ESF, probably one with A2G rockets, can be shot down almost effortlessly by an ESF with A2A missiles, is a great example, because it's something that everyone and their brother complains about, being completely destroyed with almost no effort on the part of its attacker.

Counterplay!!! YEAH!!!!

Now think of some ways that translates into THIS game with the FPS combat part.

ExtraCredits are more a bag of imbeciles than anything else. All they do is comment on OTHER peoples work but without actually saying anything valid. That nonsense about LoL or World Of Tanks is complete garbage in the way they explain it.

When you're under attack you only deal with the threat that presents itself. The idea of tanks sniping you in WoT is the equivalent of having PS2 Light Assaults move on you to spot for a sniper (If they removed your ability to spot as a sniper):

1. You kill the LA as they spot (Fun)
2. You get sniped from LA spotting for the sniper (Frustrating)
3. You get sniped while fighting LA (Frustrating)
4. You get killed by LA (Frustrating)

In no way or form is this going to be like they say "Ohhhh! My tactics have opened up ten fold to how I can deal with them, This truly is exciting counterplay".

You do the following:

1. Shoot the **** outa the LA!
2. If you KNOW there is a sniper....you go shoot the **** outa him


Sorry it just doesn't happen in the magical way that ExtraCredits would have you believe.


EDIT: I Understand people are using the argument of if you get killed by Air...you kill air with anti air. Thats not counterplay that ExtraDouche is talking about. They basically are saying "If I get attacked by rockets it gets more exciting for me....because im being attacked by rockets"

An orbital strike whose explosion slowly expands, giving those about to die a false sense of hope of being able to run away from it is perhaps the funnest way I can think of solving the zerg problem that uses counter play.

bump for more imput.

And that's one of the reasons why this game is just "meh". Rock paper scissor balance model is a terrible thing to have in a fps because it greatly removes player skill out of the equation, putting a LOT more importance on the class/role instead.

Ps1 with its inventory and loadouts did a far better job at balance than ps2.

I am with you on this. Compared to a lot of other FPS I feel that personal skill just doesn't factor into PS2 at all. It's more about who has the bigger number of people right now.

god, I HATE this guy's voice in the video.

Really really good ideas in it though. Wish this game had more counterplay. But I also feel like the video is mostly wishful thinking. It's a little harder than they make it out to be. Look at any competitive game. For example DOTA. There's a lot of things that would disagree with this video there.

Personal skill matters less the larger amount of people involved and the more involved the more it shifts to groups.

Really dont see how this is an issue considering this game is based off of large group play. Folks need to get out of there head the army of 1 mentality.

Longer TTK Does NOT mean its for n00bs.

PS1 you could last longer and have some pretty damn epic fights. Now I keep seeing this comment popping up:

"Dont increase TTK for bad players waaaaahhhh!"

In PS1 if you were a good player....YOU WERE STILL A GOOD PLAYER!

You're partially correct. It's not that personal skill doesn't factor into PS2, it's that personal skill is not the ultimate measure of effectiveness. And that's how it should be.

Personally I'm quite happy playing a game that isn't all about how effective of an army of one I am. Teamwork and coordination trumps all in this game, and that's how a massive battlefield simulator should be.

I think this game has enough counterplay as of now, maybe some details need polishing, but I haven't yet been in a situation where I would have said: "Oh wait, there is nothing I can do!"

I did see a lot of people rushing out of their spawn point just to get one-shot by excellent enemy snipers, then respawn and rush out again, sniped again. Now one could say the sniper in this example is just to overpowered or that there isn't enough counterplay to counter these snipers, but in fact there is: just don't spawn at the camped spawn. Snipers do have a drawback and that is their greatly reduced awareness of their surroundings. I have so often dropped on enemy snipers using light infantry from behind killing them easily just because they never saw me coming. And this is just the most obvious solution. You can still use decoys (turrets work well), grenades to create a second of blindness, suppression-fire and so on.

Imo the biggest problem currently is the inexperience/lack of creativity of so many players, but since we are just past launch date, it might change a lot in the future.

That video is dumb. Getting sniped like a girl? Here's your counterplay options.

1) Take cover.
2) Take cover and assault the sniper.
3) Die, put down a marker, spawn at warpgate, get a mosquito and hellfire pod the sniper to oblivion.
4) Die, rez as sniper, countersnipe.
5) Die, rez and run somewhere else.
6) Redeploy.

This is an FPS. Standing still in the open gets you killed. Deservedly.

While the video has some good points. I dont view it as an argument for the "One man Army" line of thinking.

In a game like Arma you have rock, paper, scissor all the time.
If your a inf with a rifle and a tank shows up, hide. If youre in a tank and a jet shows up, hide.

Sure you can have anti tank weapons as infantry etc, but thats not the point.
Good game play isnt always having a tool for every job. How fun would stealth games be if you where so good at combat you didnt really need to be stealthy for example...

A HA with the A2G ground rocket can engage Air, Armor and infantry all very well. Are they rock paper or scissors because I am having a hard time figuring out which one they are suppose to be.