[Suggestion] Player retention could be low because people don't know half of the possibilities.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AntDX316, May 3, 2023.

  1. AntDX316

    Player retention could be low because people don't know half of the possibilities that you can do in the game.

    The combined arms aspect, most people probably know nothing else than playing infantry. All the tactics and strategies for each specialized role, they just do not have it. With AI and prompting, giving out options as well as extra credit XP aside from how the daily missions and directives work is what to do imo.

    I try to send people to my Discord just for the guides but that isn't in-game. People need constant hand holding, even the veteran players at times to breakaway from bleak methods that get them farmed and they get bored of playing.

    I honestly thought Codex would be like my Discord but apparently support for it died. I don't think the in-game Codex is a great way to get players to know what they should do at that moment. I see a lot of roles lacking at times such as hacking vterms, engineers for maxs, tank cover for spawn protection, close air support to try to prevent people from entering the base and killing other armor, sniper on sniper coverage, etc.

    Planetside 2 has like one of the greatest UI and player-to-player communication systems in the world for a video game. It should be crazy easy to develop everything I see.
  2. TR5L4Y3R

    i rather say player retention is low for various reasons ... most of the time the game still being difficult to new players/novices and ballance being all over the place where many areas feel/are unfair to participate in as well as the progressionsystem being too grindy for its comparibly low reward ... no trickling bling bling to get every once in a while to keep the player motivated to play ...
  3. RiP0k

    I don't see the point in keeping new players. It is much more important to recruit these very players through advertising (especially from popular bloggers). If the player does not like it, he will leave anyway, no matter how you try to keep him. A system with promotional codes for a free initial set of any guns and skills can also work well.
  4. OSruinedPS1

    Maybe player retention is low because 90% of the game is zergfits pop dumping.

    People get pissed off when a Battlefield game is short 1 player on one side, and you got these zergfits dumping 48 players on a hex with 5 defenders.

    Duh.
  5. RiP0k

    Therefore, it is necessary to make the collision of two or even three zergs as possible.
    • Up x 3
  6. SikVvVidiT


    This and we have the wrong person running the show. He is out of touch with what we really want and need for this game to have a future...

    I can't name one addition to the game that he has brought in that people will say "That was a great addition".. Exibit A, Oshur... What a mess of a Continent, you know its bad when people rather log off and play on it.

    And the fact that Empire switch timers (which even PS1 had) and would help to stop all this one Empire zerg crap, are not put in game is completely asinine.
    • Up x 1
  7. TR5L4Y3R


    the problem with zergrush is that you just can´t prevent it .. if people want to bunch up and snowball all over you they are gonna do it ..
    someone in a different thread mentioned that depending on popballance within Hex either the defender should get an increased spawntimer or thdefender a decreased spawntimer .. i would go as far and implement both even to decrease nanitecost on consumeables and and Vecle/Maxx spawns ...


    @Sik

    ballancepass on infantryweapons with the addition of further customisables on primaries was pretty good ...
    for ABOUT all its flaws PS2 has a very solid infantrygunplay ...
    the problem with this game is ... and seriously i have to say ...
    i don´t know what it is but i feel that the devteam either doesn´t know what they want the game to be or they cater to hardcore-veteran-infantry-players way to friggin much ...

    ... they say the game is a huge combined arms sandbox ... it feels nowhere near like that ... it feels more like a bunch of isolated smaller sandboxed with little to no interaction between each other ... and the thing is it has been like this for years ..
    and i just don´t understand what´s keeping them from just going all out ...

    like add more turretoptions to vehicles like missilelauncherturrets ... which is a low hanging fruit since they could more or less use the models of the Valkyre and i doubt many would bother about them just copypasting them, the same weapons could be added to the galaxy heck give it and the valkyre ES Vehicleturrets then too ...
    add more AV options to infantry ... also low hanging fruit ... because there are useable options from existing classes they could just allow other classes to use aswell if neccesary through ASP ...

    buff G2A and A2A weapons that are clearly struggling ... shouldn´t be THAT hard really ..
    that´s just a couple things i can think of that imo doesn´t require many resources and would like throw ballance off that certain plattforms suddenly become unviable ... ... heck some options are unviable already and for the longest time ..
    why they are not doing this but instead keep platforms limited like that .. i just don´t understand ..

    and really what frustrates the most is they are not giving any response at all .. they are reading your posts "taking them into consideration" .. cool i suppose ..
    ... annnnnd? ... they ultimately keep the status quo .... even double down on it ...
  8. OSruinedPS1


    We've been talking about this for years, and what do the devs do but make it worse with stuff like outfit resources, or galaxy spawning (rolls eyes).

    Geez. Galaxy spawning.
  9. OSruinedPS1

    Yes you can. Here is how you prevent it:

    1) Buff player constructions, not nerf them.
    2) Make XP/cert gain proportional to the enemy:friendly ratio in hex
    3) Get rid of galaxy spawning, get rid of spawn wherever you want.
    4) Get rid of outfit resources
    5) Make respawn timer proportional to friendly:enemy ratio in hex

    and many more
  10. AntDX316

    The real solution in the future for full acclimation of what should happen in the game at every moment is mentoring people through AI/AGI. Not aimbot, cham hacks, etc. but information on what to do in the game through recommendations and courses of action. I've played since 2012 but at times I forget to breakaway from doing 2-3 things in the game. There are plenty of other roles to play and each role is like it's own game.

    To be able to treat certain roles like it's its own game can do so much. It could be difficult to code and train but there is potential for that.

    The requirement for the greater understanding of the map also is another world. People can have all the other skills but knowing how /command should operate, they would just avoid it. People constantly say in the text chat how they don't know what is going on in the game. Some people also think zerging each base is the highest limit of command as they do not know how you can look at more things and influence it such as getting the other 2 factions to take/hold bases for theirs to win.

    Putting some text down with some reasoning is super simple and quick. That is all that is needed to understand that. No intense programming and people don't do it most of the time. AI/AGI into this game should be a piece of cake. The deep level of understanding of what is shown might not be but a lot of us have that already.
  11. AntDX316

    lol, no

    You lack plenty of understanding.


    The fact you say this means you don't know the reason why that happened. You could be at a base where that base is crucial to win the alert, draw population as the other areas are stalemated, it's a super deep base that is close to their warpgate, etc.

    You should look at the map, you should have access to /command to inform people you need help but with the understanding why people should be there instead of somewhere else.

    You should join my Discord to see the guides there.
  12. BrightSpade

    New players will either like what PS2 has to offer, or they won't.
    For a 10+ year game it is doing pretty well F2P, I don't think we should introduce new changes for these so called new players.
    (It would kind of make PS2 less unique if it tries to adapt to the most popular thing going on right now(ARENA)).

    I think updating PS2 to modern standards of FPS gaming graphic/physics would already be a great step forwards between the current PS2 and whatever comes next. (Remember the vehicle updates?)

    In this thread and in general people complain about over pop / zerg-ing.
    Although not entirely ONTOPIC, I would like to add that there is a max POP per server, if TR wants to zerg VS or NC, they should be punished for it by losing ground on the other side of the map.

    As a Stalker, It is very satisfying to waste the time of 12 or 24+ players with hit-and-run knifing.
    Hide & Seek is not what they want to be doing, and sometimes this gives the base enough time for sufficient reinforcements.

    Zerg rush is a viable strategy, IMO Defenders have the advantage where a smaller amount of experienced players can significantly waste resources/time during alerts of a larger group of combatants. I think there could be a reward for fighting while being outnumbered locally AND performing well in a way that is not reliant on KD. (Even more score/XP for re-captures?)
    We already have an XP mod for low POP faction server wide, IDK what could be implemented but something that attracts players to fight until reinforcements arrive instead of giving up and relocating could be an answer.


    I agree with AntDX316, there is deeper complexity within PS2 that the ''new player'' might not discover before skipping the game.
    This is a learning curve, and every game has it. If anything the tutorial could be expanded with dumb-like bots that mimic player-behavior. If private-servers/hobbyists can create bots for games such as L4D2/GMOD, I don't see why Daybreak can't do something like that either.

    [NSO VR PV-Bots Training]
    : Defend the Outpost from the NC/TR/VS (Multiple waves)
    - Infantry (Simple)
    - Infantry (Medium)
    - Infantry (Spec-ops)
    - Infantry/Light Vehicle
    - Groups of tanks + Infantry support
    - Infantry (Heavy (MAX))
    - Air + Tanks
    - Everything random
  13. AntDX316


    Tutorials out of the live game and out of situation can be difficult to remember. If people have great memory, they possibly wouldn't even be playing the game.
  14. OneShadowWarrior

    Lackluster roadmap development didn’t help this year. No one cares about construction bases.
  15. AntDX316

    Lots care about it, way more than I care. I just hope they aren't too OP. A lot of the new stuff isn't clear and people will find out that their work is gone from 5 people attacking it. They should make it where you can add modules and stuff to the game bases, not just playerbase.
  16. AuricStarSand

    Even with Oshur not winning over the fans, the roadmap, and other features vets want. It's still better than most fps games & has better strategy pvp than all of the fantasy pvp games.

    I never understood the whole " tough for new players " aspect " Zergs are why retention is low " argument. I understand this game is tough for a new player. However is it really tougher than any other fps game really? Or just seems to be when it isn't really.

    If I was a new player, I'd rather die 10 times in under 4 mins for ps2, than play a battle royal game & die once & have to wait in a lobby before even trying to parachute down to start all over.

    Also if you believe dying in PS2 to zergs is tough for retention, then why the freak wouldn't dying in Valorant be bothersome? I've watched streamers die and even the pros die super fast playing Counter Strike or Valorant. The death time is 0.001 seconds, quick draw headshots every match. How is that not worst than zergs? Then you have to wait for the match to be over or the bomb to set.

    Some of those quick draw headshot fps's aren't able to be played less you have the best of the best desktop and internet. Where every gun type has sniper kill times. Most have zero vehicle combat, no lvling systems, smaller environments, and no classes. Among other missing features for popular reviews.

    Zergs or not, at least PS2 has the quickest respawns out of any fps & a 2nd blue bar overshield that some fps's don't have. So technically it shouldn't be & isn't skill issue. Just marketing, launch trailers aren't enough of a marketing front.

    PS2 has all the features Halo Infinite multiplayer players asked for & they were too clueless to switch. PS2 has a reward system & evolves the maps. Halo multiplayer is dead I hear. Halo Infinite only had a few features I want for PS2, more theatrical shield bar breaks for infantry, jumpads that lead to mountain valley forest ledges, the optic of the famous halo pistol, & how some of the regular auto rifles burst shot. Also a few unique land vehicle movements, warthog wheels & bikes.

    As for keeping new players idk maybe teach noobs how to park sunderers at a mid of map region, with a live arrow navigation voice operator, & highlight the ground where they should park, for starters. Besides a simulation room tutorial zone that isn't live.

    The real reason is FPS Streamers are trendy sell outs who follow trends. Even if that trend is running around battle royal maps shooting one person per 10 minutes.

    & Fantasy MMO Streamers suck at pvp & mostly are pve'ers.
    • Up x 1
  17. AntDX316


    That is some extreme hand-holding but I like it.
  18. BlackFox

    Planetside is the only F2P class shooter on the market, besides B2P titles like Battlefield/ - front . There was also Heroes and Generals with equal player numbers but that ends this month. There simply is no comparable alternative for this kind of shooter.

    The wall new players face is the difference between game design and actual gameplay. Battlefield environment, game mode and movement paired with the gunplay of an arena shooter. If a new player comes from Battlefield titles he will say that the guns feel like toys and an arena shooter fan will say that the movement is too slow and that there are too many people around for a meaningfull fight. (I play all kind of shooters since 20 years now and my friends told me the same after trying PS2).
    I know it's all about "skill" - but it's the wrong skillset they put emphasis on. It would fit the game better if tactical placement and thinking ahead would play a bigger role than the ability to out-dodge enemies and land well placed shots. Less focus on individual duels and more on group engagement if that makes sense, given the player scale in battles. Just give the guns more "WHAM" in every aspect and ditch the horizontal recoil and it would be a huge step forwards.

    That is also something that seperates Planetside from other shooters - in other games there is a bigger chance to win engagements or at least get something done once in a while. Being it coincidence, pure luck or the occasional smart idea that gets a random kill, it simply feels better in other games to engage other players. In Planetside it's always uncertain if the enemy dies due to several factors being at play. That's also why infiltrators are such a popular class by the way, as it is easier to score a kill with that class.

    --> Making bodyhots, and therefore reaction shots, a bit more effective probably would enhance the player experience by a lot. Because dumping 6 bullets into somebody and not seeing the enemy drop was a common mention for frustration back when new players still joined the game.

    And marketing the game more wouldn't do anything, they reached 10.000 players in 2020 and lost 60% of that audience within 6 months again. A very good proof that the game can't maintain an audience outside of the established playerbase.

    ______________________

    By now the only thing that could keep the franchise alive would be Planetside 3 with an overall improved game design, technical improvement (especially in the CPU department) and proper marketing.
  19. AntDX316

    If the game was only an infantry game with doing nothing else other than infantry, no alerts, no tanks, no aircraft, no /command, etc. then I probably wouldn't play though the massive battles are like no other. I would choose to play Call of Duty instead or even Battlefield. I probably like the game so much because of all the other aspects and options other than just infantry. Some people wouldn't bother doing all the other stuff as their personality is different. There is no way for me to see how others see it even with argument. I will still believe my perspective over the rest and we can assume everyone else is like that. Being open-minded is cool but it's also another level of effort some people don't bother doing.

    Some people find their niche, some don't. AI needs to help people find their niche in this game as quickly as possible if the desire is for people to be retained.

    Planetside 2 is at least 10 major games rolled up into one where the other 10 major games only do 1 thing each and nothing else but that.

    The game has been stacking so much data since it first came out. To feed all the stats into an AI LLM for pre-training would be incredible. I'm not sure how to do that but I read that having lots and lots of data is what you need for pre-training. The devs needs to talk with Google, Facebook, Microsoft, OpenAI, Scale, Palantir, etc. but not abandon Planetside 2 for another game or at least carry the stats and outfits over to a better Planetside.

    Maybe AI LLMs can figure out how to make the Planetside 2 engine work with UE5 graphics. Who knows what AI LLMs can do in the future when pre-trained and developed. People have made some incredible AI things beyond just prompting.