[Suggestion] Alternate Infiltrator playstyles

Since nano armor cloak got nerfed it has been kinda useless so the default playstyle for most infiltrators became hunter cloak with CQC Bolter or hunter cloak with a long range sniper/MG-HBR1 Dragoon(for TR and the equivalent for other factions). One can rarely see(no pun intended) stalker infiltrators because the playstyle is not diverse. I propose the following changes 1.Revert the power knifes to the original state 2. Give stalker cloak the ability to equip two pistols trough ASP system. Power knifes were always a niche playstyle that was hard to master and it was a good change of pace from regular gunplay. As for dual pistols it would allow stalker infiltrator to have diversity and ability to engage the enemy at multiple ranges. For example in one slot you could have NS-44L Blackhand or Hunter QCX for long range engagements and in the other NS-45 Pilot or NS-61 Emissary for close range engagements. The second change would improve stalker cloak playstyle greatly and it would encourage experimentation for which now there is no room.

Hunter still works with smgs, for the same reason any cloak works well.
NAC still works with all weapons and is still the best overall for CQC, bolt or not.
Even if they were to revert Power Knife damage, giving it back to Infils is a terrible idea.
Infils need zero buffs until they get the far deserved nerfs/changes to cloak and radar tools.
The trade-off for being able to sit invisible forever with Stalker is reduced killing power; they do not need extra power at this time. With changes to cloak? Possibly.

1: keep current power knife damage, add a concussion effect or similar. OHK with them was cheap and not hard to master (despite what some try to claim). Just dumping a solid nerf on your opponent should be enough.
You could even let the knife affect other people nearby in some way. Lets say it deposits a virus which clears all radar contacts and all spots for hostile players of the same faction within a short distance of the opponent. Maybe even turn the game to greyscales (EMP changes your vision too) so its harder to discern the powerknife user from your allies.

2: rather than waste the APS system, just give access to two pistols.

3: infiltrator is already the most versatile class due to its weapon selection and abilities, if we are going to look at making classes versatile we should look at other classes first.

I loved blowing up vehicles with the cortium bomb. I don't get why this fun alternate infiltrator playstyle got deleted.

Stalker. Sidearm, The Pilot. Grenade bandolier, giving you 4 grenades and prox mines. With practice this combo can be quite the killing machine in close quarter combat or even sneaking up to point room windows/doors to lob grenades inside. After hours of play, using all the pistols, because of the kick that some of the pistols have I like The Pilot. In my opinion it's faster. And because of the 3x burst I have seen many one trigger pull headshot kills with it. It is a close quarters weapon though. Shots much further than 30 yards are very iffy. Hunting other infiltrators has become a favorite to do thing. Especially 'face to face' kills at 10 feet or less. Takes a bit of practice to pull it off but pretty sweet when done. They get a fast glimpse of you then BANG.

NAC is just a worst version of hunter cloak because it has shorter duration and slower recharge. It's only better at running away since the damage reduction doesn't aid you in anyway during the encounter with enemies.
What would be good nerfs/changes to cloak and radar tools in your opinion? Since i can't really think of any significant changes that would appease the rest of the player base that want him nerfed which wouldn't make infil entirely pointless.

1. That is an interesting proposal but i think it would be way better if alongside the EMP effect it would also slow the struck enemy like NS-30 Tranquility without the AOE effect you mentioned.

2. I would like that even better but i think ASp route is a bit more realistic. It would give you something to grind for.
3. I kinda disagree on this point because the only types of play are hunter cloak bolter/sniper/smg. Stalker is a really niche playstyle that doesn't have a lot of options for "meta" play. Sure you have a lot of sniper but it's all the same thing with a few exceptions. Idk about other factions but on TR your only good option when it comes to smgs is the NS-66 Punisher and that gets boring quick. As for scout rifles they serve a similar purpose as bolters so its really not that big of a change in playstyle.

I kinda do the same thing but i like to run NS-44L Blackhand or NS-61 Emissary so that i have a mid-long range option while still being good in close quarters with the assistance of NSX Amaterasu. I also run ammunition belt because i tend to run out of ammo and i also like to run NSX Raijin from time to time.

Which is what you should be doing, a lot. If you are taking fights like a heavy then you are going to die. The higher uptime of Hunter Cloak is now a good choice as well, but with proper cloak management the DR > uptime.

Not going to go deep into this because it will just devolve into thread #438 of Infil balance.

Cloak: Longer delay (numerous ways to do this) so that players can actually react to de-cloaking.
Recon Tools: Turn the recon dart into a single pulse on a relatively long CD (~15+ secs), no ammo. Lower the range of radar device significantly and also have it pulse on a long interval (again ~15+ secs). Neither should track the player and instead add a dot like non-suppressed weapons do.

This hasn't been my experience. Nano-armor nerf, yes, but there are still a lot of stalkers - the only ones that are successful now are the sneaky/patient ones, which is a Good Thing, IMHO. I like your ideas, though - it seems like infs receive some sort of subtle or not so subtle nerf with every patch, beginning with the (ch*ckens*it) killcam, which fast became a sissy crutch for every other class that couldn't be bothered to develop any sort of situational awareness. Still, if I had to sidearms, I'd probably make them both Blackhands, so I could switch, as opposed to reload. Just my humble opinion.

--S

Lol what??

1: thats what I proposed: a concussion effect, which also helps increase a surprise advantage since the enemy cant turn as fast to find and retaliate against you. But if that effect wasnt enough you could add that virus AOE effect or similar.

2: If people are willing to waste an ASP on something you should get for free, who am I to judge?
But grinding for that ASP is exactly why we SHOULDNT add it. Grinding for ASP's means speeding up XP gain which means farming rather than playing. ASP's are too limited anyway: you should have the option to swap an ASP once a day so players arent stuck with their choices and can experiment (or change if their chosen ASP isnt useful anymore due to updates). Additionally brand new characters should get one ASP free of charge so they dont have to be even farther behind on the powerscale versus veteran players and it lets them experiment with the ASP system in advance.

3: the Infiltrator has the most versatility as a sniper/scout&BR/SMG all play different at different ranges compared to any other class. While a different range LMG or Carbine changes your preferred range you are still doing much more the same compared to infiltrators. Although I have no doubt some people have managed to homogenize infiltrators and do the exact same with it regardless of the weapon.

Exactly what it says. Infiltrators have the most playstyle options with their choice for weapon and cloak compared to other classes. The closest would be the LA with different jumpjets.

I LOVED the Emissary for the same reasons you mentioned. Then, some odd weeks ago, it suddenly wasn't doing anything. Entire clips into players at medium/close range and often they'd spin around and take me out??? WYH?! Don't know if it was server issues or what but after a day and a half I went to the Pilot. Another thing with the Emissary is that it was LOUD. When taking out players near the edge of groups, the noise would often call other players to the spot. I'll have to give it a try today. I really like the Pilot but the ammo issue really bites it.

In my opinion it's more important to have better positioning prior to the engagement so i don't have to "run away" so i prefer uptime rather than DR, but everyone has their own playstyle so do what you enjoy.

I think your proposed cloak would really hurt the smg infil but i like the recon dart change you proposed but i would put the pulse interval on ~10 sec. But those are changes that would be welcome if it meant that there would also be changes that would buff/stir up available infil playstyles. Especially the two pistol change i have proposed.

Maybe you shouldnt just dangle the nerf in front of them, but also buffs that could follow?

For example:
- The 100 health lost can be given back when decloak is delayed. Lets you fight people more evenly with an SMG. and if you assume that "decloak into their face" isnt the stealthy gameplay the infil was designed for you should agree with the option to decloak in a flank instead.
- change how the decloak sound works. For example any player without a LOS (counted in 360 degrees like a Spitfire) will hear the decloak sound less or not at all. Since decloak (and cloaking) arent combat moves anymore that sound isnt as important an indicator of Infil presence. Letting players be more stealthy by controlling how well players can hear them would be a big boon to actual infiltrating players.
- increase cloak duration. If cloak stops being a direct combat move then it should at the very least help you get around.

The recon devices shouldnt be nerfed too hard, but their fire-and-forget power and spammability/accuracy need to go down.

Recon darts:
- at least a limit per player, placing 50 darts because you've got an ammo pack just to cover an entire base shouldnt be possible.
- the simple "and now everything is visible in this circle" is too powerful and simple in its use. Make it scan differently. For example: it will scan only within LOS, but it will outright spot players (maybe a micro-spot lasting 3 or 4 seconds? Or just as long as they remain in LOS?). Its more useful for detecting players passing a door or a courtyard, but wont detect everyone inside and around a single building.
- make the scan lightbulb bigger, both visually and its hitbox. So players can better spot it and try to dislodge them.

Dildar:
- this could be the scan pulse we see on the current recon dart. You can spot people approaching a building or what they do inside, but you wont be seeing their exact location continuously. The limit on how many you can place at a time and the fact that you have to manually place it make it a good trade-off with the Recon Darts.

Spent all the time I was on yesterday with the Emissary. It's still NOT the weapon I first certed out. At close range, under 20 feet, it was fine. However, anything beyond 30 yards was terrible. I was credited for many assists but couldn't manage a kill at longer ranges. Then again, it's a Double XP weekend. Brings out a lot of players who don't seem to take damage like everyone else.

Hey afternoon, my turn.

First sharing this thread I made showing how HA has way more options than Stalker or SMG infil.
When viewing items, asp, or implants. HA have way more:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...-line-only-gear-for-gear.259904/#post-3586909

& this tribute video for Infil:

1) I made a hunter knife only load build. With hunter, NS Victory Knife, Tranquility or Eidolon for just the smoke barrel attachment, two flash mine, one flash grenade, adrenaline pump, & survivalist nightmare implants.

The theory was to use the smoke barrel to save me nanites & bored of only having one smoke grenade previously. As knifing always requires adrenaline pump for run speed. So I would smoke barrel the area & run there to knife them, repeat runs.

I also forgot to mention, my 2ndary weapon which usually is just a Heartstring with explosive arrows to ward off vehicles.
What I realized from dueling with this build around Ascent's B hill or B bunker hold. Was that the counter to a knifer using hunter (wasn't able to use stalker or else I wouldn't be able to use smoke barrel), the counter to hunter with knife, was a damn pistol stalker. Irony.

So I would smoke the hill of B or smoke the bunker hold of B & my hunter cloaks timer wouldn't last. & I'd be crouched near a wall while no other enemy saw me. The nearby enemy LA or Medics wouldn't see me, yet guess who saw me, these freaking vet stalkers with pistols. As they just wait patiently near the corners & then shoot you with a pistol when your hunter cloak is done. Since I only have a knife, I'm not able to return fire.

P.s. With that build I'd probably actually use the Tranquility 10% of the time to shoot, was mostly a knife build with hunter for free smoke. While the flash mines & flash grenade were just for the memes or entertainment, I don't find flash mines good at all & overly priced still. & no I'm not able to get x4 smoke grenades with stalker, adrenaline pump is mandatory for knifing.

2) Just because I main stalker does not mean I'm a pistol whipper. I knife 60% of the time & use heartstring 40% of the time. Heartstring doesn't kill fast, the gameplay with heartstring isn't like pistols. It's medium range & slow arrows. Since I favor explosive arrows for av potential, I also use explosive arrows for infantry, so sometimes takes 3 slow arrow hits to kill one infantry enemy. That's very different from a pistol just nearly shotgunning someone to death at near range. Style wise.

3) Pistols are only good to use with 100fps to 120fps. Or maybe I haven't figured out the sensitivity just right yet. Till then, I'm on a laptop with 46 to 86 fps & that doesn't seem good enough for pistol whipping. Esp stuff like the beamer, you need 100+ fps.

4) Knifing & Pistol whipping are TWO entirely diff playstyles.

5) After getting killed on my hunter knifer with smoke barrel tranquility for smoke only not for the scout rifle shooting, I am not really a fan of enemy pistol users. They are annoying, they wait & counter this hunter knife playstyle too well.

6)

Infiltrater is the least versatile class. If you play SMG who says you want to play sniper? I don't. If you play Scout who says you want to play pistol, some or many won't. If you play pistol, who says you'd not rather be just a knifer with knifer based utilities, I find pistolers sucker punches to be wack this week. I'd rather knife & heartstring. If you play SMG you have what, 3 faction smg's to use, that's not versatile. If you play knife, you always have to run adrenaline pump & deep op, less options. These weapon types are so vastly different gameplay wise, that they shouldn't even be seen as the same class. Sniping on the bridge verse a front like runner stalker, two diff entire playstyles. Unlike HA where adrenaline pump & deep op aren't mandatory & the varying shields abiltiies are used with every weapon type, so you have options. & adrenaline pump isn't mandatory as HA doesn't knife. Nor mandatory implant slots like deep op just to not be seen by some noobs. Already said all this with the link I shared above " HA verse Front Line Infil. gear for gear ".

7)

I'm so bored of using recon darts. When I'm invis I have enough time to find enemies. Medics should have recon darts as a extra tool & give infils something else. Or give recon darts to snipers, yet give smg, pistol, & knife infils something else for the front line. It's tiring to use recon darts after your 10,000th time shooting them. Even dropping the recon pod is meh. These are passive tools, I'll take a HA launcher any day of the week over a passive tool. I want a tool good for 96vs96 that does dmg. Not just some dart that I'm able to use my stealth eyes to find enemy locations without using the tool. Average tool. Even if they shoot 40 darts everywhere, so what, for a 96vs96 with tons of vehicles driving around, you don't need recon, you need a HA launcher tool.

8)

Ye this freaking sucks. I don't understand, why not just give the Infil a cortium bomb type that does zero dmg to modules & still does dmg to vehicles & infantry. Problem solved everyone wins. Instead their like nope, lets limit the infil class, after I just wrote a huge thread showing how stalker doesn't have enough utilities to use when compared to HA. So they got rid of one more, titled the mention bare bones, limited equipment, no asp, mandatory wasted implant slots, mandatory run speed ability, no options, not entertaining. Need 2 tactical slots, trip wire, & a freak ton of items to use after 10 years of Infil playing. For sure not less. I want to bomb sunderers, when?

Also taking away cortium bomb, hasn't made more infantry fights happen for silo's, that's something unrelated to items & more environment engagement or something. Not to mention my silo's have died from tanks this past year or flails, more than cort bombs. I haven't been cort bomb trolled in over a year or so, to where it mattered. They fixed flails I guess? from single handedly destroying silos with flails glaives. Yet 20 enemy tanks showing up while your allied empire redeployed elsewhere, to farm outfit resources, is still the main issue with silo defending. I've stated silos require a free pub platoon steel raine module to summon your pub, to fight off enemy tanks.

9)

For the last time, no offense, just people keep asking for the power knife every other month. I'm gonna tell you knifer's this. You don't want the power knife even if you're the main knifer of your server. You don't want it.

If you pressed the button 10,000 times, you're sick of pressing the button to turn on the knife.

The knife is noisy. Vets hear you & shoot you often.

The kill time for 2 hit knifes is literally almost the same speed, maybe 0.4 seconds slower for 2 hits. Yes sometimes for HA you have to hit 3 hits maybe 4. Yet it's all part of the entertainment.

HA don't respect the 1 hit knife, you'll kill them & they'll pm you as if you are a troll. No thanks.

Having to 2 hit is part of the skill for knifing, 1 hit is too ez.

Everyone who wants the 1 hit knife, literally skipped trying to use a 2 hit knife, I'm able to tell just by how they type, that they didn't even try a 2 hit knife enough. So go buy a shop 2 hit knife, for style, if the default 2 hit knife seems boring. I adore my NS Victory knife more than the Lumineree 1 hit knife. & I've played them both for 10 months each. So 20 months knifing.

& again pressing that stupid button to turn the knife on is so lame.

if you want a special effects knife, ok, one that tossed a smoke grenade out when you knife or hits people with a utility effect concussion or something, sure.

I wish they'd other types of knives for free & then some more 2 hit shop knife styles as well.

& lastly knifing isn't about kill time, it's about approaching at the eyesight side angles of the enemies, dodging bullets, & weaving your run speed to knife their shoulder sides.

Infil Wishes:

I want a Infil spec for every weapon type. So SMG gets its own cloak type. Sniper / Scout get their own cloak type. Pistols get their own cloak type. & the real one I REALLY WANT is that KNIFER'S get their own cloak type to separate themselves from pistol users.

So all this give infils 2 pistols stuff, I get why you would ask for this. As Infil got jack nothing for ASP skills. Yet 2 pistols is only going to help " Pistol Users ". I'm not running around with a pilot, only sometimes I do, yet most of the time no. I do not play Yuwara much, most vs pistols fire like bb guns & require 120 fps to use good. So meh. I play Knife & Heartstring. So I'm not pistol whipping anybody, zero.

So how does 2 pistols, help a non pistol whipper? It doesn't.

Solution:

Infil Knifer gets a knife only ability. One that is made for bow type weapons & a knife, with tons of utilities as many as HA or more. As they rid pistols from the equation, no pistols. Just knife & many utilities.

So I have a knife, a medieval bow WHERE IS THE REAL BOW AT? How long does it take, what dev dislikes fantasy weapons?? Like this is a no brainer, I've asked for this 10 times over a few years. Instead we get a LA usable heavy crossbow, that has ugly mechanic optics. & a regular crossbow pistol type. Yet no actual real medieval draw string bow? A alien Yumi bow or Mongolian bow. Made from wood yo, pls & ty, that doesn't look like some NSO agent made the bow, sheesh xD

So the utility for a knife only loadout, with a knife only cloak spec.
Would look like this for slots.
1) Knife
2) Medieval draw string bow
3) trip wire
4) a tool that is offensive & not a lame motion sensor, that front liners don't need.
5) free smoke launcher without wasting nanites on smoke grenades
6) default run speed boost tool
7) cortium bomb
8) proximity mine
9) utility mine (yes you should be able to have both slots for both types of mines, utility mines are weaker than people understand)
10) cort bomb (only does dmg to vehicles & infantry, specialized for infil)
11) even more trip wire.
12) vanishing powder.
13) shuriken throwing knives

That's what I want for a knife only build & the regular archer bow is only used briefly 30% of the time, so really it's knife + 10 utilities. & no pistol whipping, no pistol. Just knife & utilities & mid range slow arrow bow. That's fair. & yes I want 10 utilities or more, not less. So bug off if you say that's op, as HA only gets 8 or w/e. Ye well this load has no near range pistol dmg, so it's fair.

As for ASP, yes we should get something good, yet it has to be something for every type of infil, & so far they haven't split the styles. They really believe a sniper scout, smg, pistol, or knife bow utility agent are the same type of person? They are different playstyles entirely, & no many of us do not switch much at all if ever.

So yes every gun type requires its own cloaking & to show how limited each type of playstyles gun selection really is.

Yes ASP requires a ASP skill for each of these playstyles, so no duel pistols won't work that's only for pistol stalkers. I play stalker for years, yet I'm not a pistol stalker, I'm something entirely different. Pistols are just something I use when bored, yet isn't what I'm aiming for. Reason I just tried a hunter smoke barrel attachment playstyle for knife gameplay & getting countered annoyingly from other enemy pistol stalkers, so if anything pistol stalkers are my rival right now.

SMG does good dmg, yet lacks unbarrel attachments & a wide variety of fan favorite smg's. 2 of every faction smg plays similar, so really theirs only 2 faction smg's that seem different out of the 3. & the NS SMG's or all faction use smg's; well many of those are unfavored. Punisher gets used for LA ambusher jet bounzes way too much, as other attachments should allow for a jump, as bounze grenades are bonkers overpriced. So you have to use the punisher to get 2 free bounzes & then punisher is boring to use after staying with the gun. NS-7 PDW isn't good enough or overly simple of design or lack of attachments. MKV suppressed is missing flare or something. Tengu gets replaced with Kappa. Kappa for some reason, means you've unlocked everything for your empire by then & now make a alt rather than play the Kappa. Armistice & Hailstorm as mentioned above, besides rpm & bullet mag size, still play like the same gun. Erdani & Sirius require to feel more like smg's rather than carbines. Canis I want to rename, so suggest allow people to rename the guns themselves. Scorpios I also want to rename. & not sure how NSO smg's are, yet from the firing range, non impressed me much, & I'd rather use the scout rifle that shoots like a smg that nso have. Lastly most won't play a smg infil, even if smg's do good dmg, as smg dps & smg dps alone, isn't entertaining enough to play smg infil, requires other utilities or barrel buttons.

So yes a knife only loadout for knife & draw string bow types, with 10 other utilities. That rivals the pistol users. Not lumped together. Different styles. Toss each style a diff new ASP skill, as Infil has zero good ASP skills & no extra weapon unlike the other classes. Make smoke grenade free (it's a asp skill for now). Also deep op & adrenaline pump speed should be default, not require a implant slot for & not require a armor slot, for knifer's. Aka no mandatory options, just to enjoy your main style.

Other implants that improve run speed, Springstep is only for pistol users, I'm not a pistol stalker, I run with the knife, not with pistol reloads. Survivalist barely helps, if shield breaks you're usually dead by then, & the run is short lived. & means I'm not able to have deep op. Nightmare is a must or else knifing is boring. I want catwalk jumps to jump over people when knifing, yet no slots for. TBH really require 3 implant slots. Less you make deep op default for knifer's.

Avoidance & Sweeper Hud Implants are still OP at ridding all AI mines. Anyone who's over BR 60 or BR 80 doesn't require a implant to avoid mines >.> Sweeper Hud is best for AV mines only, as vehicles with sweeper hud still hit av mines due to speeding too fast with vehicles. Yet nobody is running too fast with sweeper hud as infantry to accidently hit the AI mines. One out of 2 HA have one of these implants. Making HA outfit wars vets winning over all AI mines. 150 nanites wasted left & right.

Lastly dodge rolls to dodge bullets or ways to juke bullets by weave running to the side.
& a mini wrist energy shield similar to the max shield x4 smaller of a shield for melee.

Bless. Stealth out. * throws vanishing powder *

Hello fellow infli,
i get what you are trying to say but i think it's valid for people that enjoyed 1 hit knifes to want them back. Everybody has their own preferences and if somebody wants to press the button for 1000000th time they should be allowed to do so. If that's how they like to play the game and have played like that since the beginning why should we get rid of a unique playstyle that was very niche.
As for you list of infil wishes i to a certain extent agree with them but what you want with this current devs are only that,wishes. I doubt the stuff you want to see will ever see the light of day. Tho i get why you want to voice them since i also have a lot of wishes for infil but i believe they are really unrealistic and far fetched.

So i made this thread to propose a change that is feasible with current dev team and in my opinion not that "Broken or OP".