Can we finally all agree on removing SMGs for infiltrators ?

I agree on removing some weapons to some classes, to add some variety. Shotguns and SMG were both added AFTER launch and coincidally, both are the widest available weapon classes. (my bet is that sony needed money at the time and wanted most people to buy them) They should have been more specific and maybe I wouldn't even have complained if only infils had got SMGs at this point, it would have been one of their weapons. But a bigger downside should have gone with the cloak and decloak process still.

infiltrators are called infiltrators not snipers, they're generally meant to be cqb with hit and run tactics and general disruption of enemy forces by pestering.

And instead they are the most effective stormtroopers - an infiltrator zerg is the most successful infantry tactic for attacking a base nowadays. Invisibility as combat ability doesn't belong in a game like this.

(And don't get started with "they have less shield", those are just 100 points they are missing)

The Adavantage of Infiltrators are the Reckon Tools. They know exactly when someone is coming around the Corner and can prepare. Most of the time ist does not matter what Weapon you are using, since you got the Element of Suprise in most Cases. You can throw Stones and some would still scream OP.
If there should be an Infiltrator Nerf then nerf the Cloaks. Give it a 2 or 3 Second Cooldown from the last shot you fired or after decloaking. Or a Reckon Tool that decloaks all Enemy Infiltrators in an Area or make them more visible like it would be under a Flashlight.

Yeah-yeah, as if post-death camera invention wasn't enough. I even suggest next step - allow to mark enemy from that camera, cause why not? Then whine some more, and you can have "kill" button in that cam, if it was infil.
Joke, ofc, but in every joke...
Some game about tanks worth drama, to be honest.

And totally PS don't have other, more complex problems.
Maybe it would be better to have some netcode optimization instead, if most whine is "died before he decloaked"?
Or maybe to start with rate of fire first?
Why .ini tinkering still a thing? For example, FOV > allowed in game menu - totally don't give some advantages?
Oh, i forgot, it is sooooooo nice to walk through enemy when you try to stab him with soooo overpowered knife. Which, by the way, should be equipped - but quick knife somehow don't have equip time. Balance issues I feel not.

That's odd, because they aren't "Invisible" on my screen

SMG infils aren't OP, or even a little-bit, if you stand toe-to-toe with any other class in an upfront confrontation SMG will not kill as fast as any other weapons, as soon as you're hit by some AOE **** or a random stray bullet you're visible enough to get ****** on in stealth, and if you're not stealthed there is no way you're winning a battle against an aware opponent using an SMG. If you do lose that fight you're just bad.

What is OP is the strategy employed by SMG infiltrators, which is flanking, Getting behind enemy lines, taking the side roads with stealth to get into a position where the SMG turns from being mediocre to being good.
Watch... your... flanks.. Stop blaming anything other than your own ineptitude.

This is a stupid comment, because people are already crying so much about CQC snipers like Ghost because they're able to use 4x sights instead of being forced to use (at minimum) 7x scopes.
Removing SMG's does not prevent CQC infiltrators.

Nice anecdote that shouldn't lend any credence to your argument, but thanks for telling us.

Thats_the_point.jpg Infiltrators ARE infiltrating behind enemy lines to get off some nice flanks, Infiltrators break up stale as hell hallway fights, getting to the opposite side of the hallway by walking around to that side using stealth.
You're just another mad little stain on this community that can't deal with getting flanked in a WAR game, This isn't csgo, not everything is perfectly balanced and it should stay that way, the "rock paper scissors" mechanic in this game is multi-layered goes through many different levels, from strategy to weapon loadouts to class specificity. What you're basically saying is remove heavy shields because you can't win a 1v1 against them, or remove Light assault c4 because your tank got bombed sitting somewhere stationarry ******** out hesh on infantry.

YOUR class / weapon / character shouldn't be able to beat everything, there are up and downsides to everything.

Said by someone with a Infiltrator as an avatar...

I dont know if you really read my post though, the problem with infiltrators is not that they are OP, even if in the current conditions it doesnt take much for them to win any 1v1, given that they are not seen first.

The problem is that it creates a bad ambiance for other players, especially beginners, that will see that as unfair and leave the game, as I stated. Which is never good for a game.

For the argument of CQC snipers, if that build was as easy to use for infils as SMG, given its power, everybody would play it. They dont, because it requires some skills.

I dont know either where you get your stats for TTK, but the difference between SMG and other weapons is not big enough to make it unplayable. I auraxiumed 5 SMG without playing infils and didn't encouter any problem doing that. So starting a duel with someone with 3 bullets in the head from behind should be enough to give you a headstart (lol) and if you can't win a duel starting by that, my dude, you need better than a SMG. A gap like this one is almost impossible to overcome even for the most experienced players, so for beginners it feels like something you absolutely can't counter.

Again, i fare just fine against infil SMG, but I saw so many people struggle with it and ultimately quit the game because they didn't feel it worth it to power through such a major balance problem. I see a lot of starting players using the flashlight, do you think it's because of the lack of light ? It's because their primary perceived threat are infils, which is not real but telling enough to me.

I mean great for you, but a lot of people have issues with the glimmer not being visible in most situations

shotguns are scrap though and require to get even closer to target than smgs .. other than LA and HA no class (besides theoreticaly the infill with cloak) can make propper use of the default pelletammo and be effective with it
.. slugs on autoshotguns are an utter waste, no point in that being an option in the first place, flacheteammo i also find rather questionable with the autoshotgun`s recoil ...
as for sluguse for 2nd line firesupport on the rest of the semi and pumpshotguns: there simply are much MUCH better alternatives in scout and battleriffles that investing the 100 cert (or 200?) even just for the default shotgun, before getting a propper midrangeweapon still isn`t worth it ... sooooooo with that general weaponclass being this utterly unbalanced what`s the point in removing it in the first place? ... infils don`t have it anymore anyway so the understandable outcry for latency-decloak-CQC-OHK is no longer a thing aside from active knives to the head ...

there also is no adding variety when you remove it from classes it`s merely forcing differences between plattforms without allowing players to express themselves or add softcounterplay ... to me there is no reason to not allow AV options like vehiclegrenades to almost all classes (which are still underpowered) and the rockletrifle (as primaryoption) for infils and medics (the latter even getting AMRs) ..

Shotguns are OP in extreme CQC and next to worthless anywhere else, which makes it another category of weapon that's unbalanced, as it is too specialized

Damn Who knew flanking was an effective strategy against inexperienced people.
Stop shoveling this on SMG infils, An SMG LA could do the -exact- same thing by getting into a position ontop of a roof or some other unexpected angle, EVENTHOUGH light assaults have better TTK weapons / shotguns / under-barrel grenade launchers to flank with.
You're literally arguing against flanking, not SMG infils. i could be stalker infil with a ******* commissioner and flank, or a 4x Sniper or even the crossbow.

Unaware targets are unaware targets regardless of class, weapon, or vehicle you use.
Get a good position on some enemy frontline with a M40 Fury harrasser / flash? Damn guess that needs a nerf too.

You're delusional af saying new players are put off by -just- smg infils. they're put off by any unfair advantage, game knowledge, map knowledge, cert points for weaponry imballance yet you choose to die on the hill of 'smg infils bad' lol.

It all comes down to one major difference - the LA isn't invisible or needs special tools to be detected first. You can actually spot them before they strike if you pay attention.

An infiltrator just can decloak right infront of you, headshot you within less than a second thanks to pre-aiming and then piss off to annoy the next player.
Same goes for fleeing or repositioning: The LA will be visible and vulnerable if he tries to reposition during combat while the infiltrator goes invisible, goes to a position the enemy doesn't look at and shoot people in the back.

Invisibility doesn't belong in a game like this

Hell NO!!!

I would rather agree on some cloak nerfs (with Chameleon and Nano-cloak nerfs reverted back accordingly) than agree to cut my poor arsenal to be even more pathetic...

+1
♋

There's already a major downside that no other class has in the game: Ya straight up CANNOT shoot at all when using it. Unlike Heavies who can still shoot during.

Just look at the sad state the Nano-armor cloak is in, it has worse up time, worse recharge time, a lot more visibility and no longer gives 100 passive shield to off-set the Infiltrator debuff.

What you get is a resist shield from a heavy, except you can't do anything but run away in that time. But if you're getting hit whilst cloaked, you shimmer anyway so it really doesn't make any sense.

They can be both, Infiltration refers to going behind enemy lines. Which can be both Sniping and CQC.

People tend to use 'invisible' as crutch argument, when we all know that isn't the case. Otherwise a heavy should be able to see you if you're crouched and sitting still, but they can.

There is however a bug, or rather a visual issue going on with a small amount of players that results in the cloak being less visible even with Darklight. Then again, they can also be lying just to further along the 'cloak OP' propaganda.

SMG is not the problem as much as it is the ability to never be seen up until you're within 10 meters, and then you're only found if they're actively looking for you.

On PS4, i don't have this problem, because everybody has the same graphics settings minus a few minor changes. The difference MAY be, that I play on a 55" TV. I can usually see a sprinting cloaked infil run into the same room I'm in.

Not to mention, due to when they updated the aim assist, your screen will start turning at them even if they're stalker cloaked.

On PC, I play on a monitor and on a custom built pc built 4 years ago, it's not able to run Planetside at it's best graphics but it can run up to medium just fine, but it's impossible to see infiltrators, and the higher my graphics goes, the more particles and random crap I have to peer through to potentially see infiltrators. So I play on low graphics, but even then, (maybe due to my screen being 24") I can't see infils until they're uncloaking from a sprint in the middle of a room, and they're throwing caution to the wind about being seen half the time.

IMO, the stalker cloak should stay exactly how it is, and the power knife should be reverted because the amaterasu is obviously still better for terminal camping, but the other cloaking abilities shouldn't be able to cloak or at least decloak anywhere near as fast as they do. It should be that, or they should revert cloaking back to where it was, because this no seeing infiltrators thing is a relatively new development compared to when I had a 2 year hiatus.

Furthermore, if this does become a change, maybe they could put a slight delay on overshields as well, so heavies can't panic shield their way to victory when they're getting blindsided.