So as we are all aware atm. The NC have been gifted a awesome in theory bad in practice kind of weapon. It however is an opportunity to revisit what artillery really is and what the other weapons are. Artillery is a munition fired from a large cannon. For lack of a better term on my behalf. It is fast moving, far reaching and "heavy hitting". When I say heavy hitting then let us be speaking of the NC. Our HEAT and AP both beat the JGX in every single way. This should either be removed and revisited as I will go into shortly. We've established that the HEAT and AP are both better choices for their respective skills than what we are wanting out of JGX. So why would we use a direct nerf to our artillery because it underperforms against HEAT and AP for the same fights? This weapon makes more sense on the lightning. On a lightning you can properly adjust and balance the JGX without disrupting what we really need out of our MBTs. Consider this. We make it a lightning exclusive We need to consider the practical uses of this weapon, where we'd use it and in what way Once we've considered the practical uses you can then figure out what is a properly balanced number The size of the blast can be considered once we decide what the actual hard damage from the JGX We reduce the damage onto what a lightning should be doing for what we want out of artillery. We increase the projectile speed but keep the same drop path When you at the very least increase the projectile speed it allows our JGX to do some more consistent dps without being too overpowering We can do those things properly if we scrap every cannon. Each of these weapons need revisiting. There is too much that give very heavy advantages/disadvantages. The NC needs to be reconsidered. Currently I have seen more of these on lightning than I ever see right now on Vanguards. The VS and NSO MBT cannons definitely need to be revisited. Their is too much of an unfair disadvantage against the NC and TR. Neither of our weapons can effectively reach the distance of these current engagements we are finding ourselves in. I am being hit from 300m, 400m, 500m, 600-800m. Sometimes so far that the actual SFX disappear if shot from a far enough distance. In some cases I have seen 2 or 3 tanks instantly explode and the rest of us couldn't see a single tank well or even at all in some fights. We only know they are fights because we are exploding like water balloons as the NC and TR. These horrifically high advantaged weapons cripple the TR and NC. You can't fight something you can't see. This is completely broken. I don't care about the damage. I don't care about the charges. The fact is there are clear win conditions on the VS and NSO tanks. Until we take care of the major differences with these guns. We couldn't possibly continue to take the abuse of the capabilities of these weapons. We should be able to fight back... and sometimes we can't do that. Even if we wanted to. This isn't fun. This is clear abuse of a weapon and you all know it to be true. I have seen the NSO and VS tanks fighting and they either blow eachother up or one wipes the other. This is decimation against the NC and TR. I refuse to even fight Vanu right now. We still have Vanu that roll in with an outfit in NC and TR territory fights and snipe us both even though they are 10 territories away from any VS lines. So these weapons need to be scrapped until they are more properly and honestly tested... I don't see why the NC and TR should have to suffer abuse.
If they really wanted it used like artillery, they'd have built it like the defector's detinator with the explosive splash able to damage tanks.
The best way those VS weapons could be fixed, is to either give it damage falloff, or make the charged shots highly inaccurate so they could only do small amounts of damage at range.
NSO (Larion) and NC (JGX) should've been swaped. Railguns and piercing should've stayed NC specific trait, while NSO would get unconventional cannon (like an "artillery"), like NSO does.
Thats a good point. I am not one to speak on balancing but I think we need to have civil discussions between each factions players without shouting at each other about whos gun is bigger. There are concerns on all sides. Some more than others.
The solution I would have: MAKE it artillery!* This picture shows concept art for the Vanguard with in the corner a version deployed in artillery mode. If the Vanguard with JGX could do that and the player could use it like a Flail (with a target designator, preferably not a dart) then it would have a unique support function for the player. Add in various ammo options (cluster, HE, chemical, smoke, carrier shells etc**) to give the player more versatility than "designate to make boom". On top of that, a balance pass over the other two faction guns. Because no drop high damage charge weapons and quad annihilation are kinda OP. While the JGX in its current form is like the Numbnutz reactor: a literal downgrade that offers nothing unique as other options can do it better while the others get more and better stuff. *or better, a Howitzer, which is artillery capable of direct fire which it already can do. **I'm not saying add each and every type, these are just options for additional munitions to switch to.
I wouldn't want the Larion on Vanguard for the other factions' sake. I would imagine that the Larion + Forward Vanguard Shield could make it overpowered, if you'd then nerf it then it'd be another AP variant. Not very interesting. Ergo it raises a problem, you can't have high dps weapon on a Tank that has higher defence compared to the other tanks as that would throw the balance off. The solution would be to have a weapon doesn't synergize with the Forward Vanguard Shield/The vanguard's defence, which is artillery, since you wouldn't be able to have direct line of sight engagements. I conclude that the artillery would be fitting, balance wise. Theme wise you'd be correct in that railguns are more of a NC theme. But I would weigh one more important than the other.
Yeah! The tank that has been proven to be the worst at killing infantry, worst at killing tanks AND dies the most of all 3 MBT's would DEFINITELY suddenly be massively OP if it had a higher DPS canon and outperform everybody!
For a second I thought you meant that the Chimera was the worst. Don't you and mean "most of all 4 MBT's". How did you conclude that the Vanguard is the worst out of all the 4 MBT? On another note if the JGX would become proper artillery, what wouldn't the top gunner slot become a bit obsolete? Not that I mind. (I'm playing the devil's advocate, I do agree that the JGX should get changed)
I dont count the NSO one as its a useless mechanic that shouldnt have been added in the first place and all 3 factions have to suffer the NSO gear semi-equally. You might as well say "AHA THIS NS GUN EVERYONE USES IS THE WORST SO YOUR ARGUMENT THAT FACTION X IS BEHIND DUE TO ITS FACTION SPECIFIC WEAPONS MAKES NO SENSE!". Yeah the Chimera is a worthless tool from every perspective. "Hey guys you know what the 4rth semi-faction designed to be on the lowest population faction needs? How about vehicles and gear that require the most people to use and is mediocre at best! Wonderful!". The Vanguard is the worst of the 3 faction MBT's. It scores a large amount less infantry kills*, a large amount less vehicle kills* and dies the most. *based on what a single MBT will accomplish on average for a single pull.
^THIS^ Keep the current base damage, increase the splash radius to 10m, and increase the splash damage based on range. Tadaa! Jgx now encourages long range artillery style of play without buffing it's limited cqc effectiveness. Such an obvious fix to make the weapon actually function as artillery and not just a big slow awkward downgrade.
Which is a fairly pointless stat unless you are only comparing it with the Prowler since Magriders have almost 50% less users than both Vanguards and Prowlers, making the Magriders stats unreliable at best or completely stacked in favour of the higher skilled players at worst given how unfriendly it is to new/inexperienced players making them even less likely to even try to use it. Prowlers being the "best" MBT is probably not a secret anymore though so the Vanguard falling behind it is just a given and does not really reflect how good or bad it is since its simply the Prowler over performing as usual. On the topic though, the JGX combined with a gunner has like 1 second faster TTK than the Vanguard AP against Magrider/Prowlers so it does have its uses even if people do not want to see it.
Actually not pointless, since the amount of Magriders per VS player is virtually the same as the other two factions. Also it would only be unreliable if there were FEW users, not LESS users. And in this case we still have more than enough users for accurate data. Also the Magrider isnt difficult to learn how to use. In fact its the easiest since its controlscheme is the same as infantry controls where with the other two you still have to learn how to keep track of where the main body is aiming at. Its also not hard to use the Magrider's abilities to their full effect, since using A and D isnt difficult and the floaty mechanics+stability while moving dont require much from the player to use when you start. Also since you brought it up, THE MAGRIDER IS THE BEST PERFORMING MBT RIGHT NOW. so screw that VS bias of yours. "Oh noes we are the wooorst" (has the best tank, starter LMG, auraxium LMG)
Ofcourse it does matter! It tells us how much the JGX needs changes to be a good option, it also tells us how the Vanguard is shafted AGAIN when it comes to goodies while the VS and TR get obviously powerful and unique choices.
Chimera just recieved an ability, similar to pre-nerf Vanguard shield. Also, Vanguard is currently the only tank without a cannon suited for very long engagements - Prowler could do that for ages with P2-120 AP + Lockdown and Magrider just recieved Perihellion.
There are less magriders than prowlers. No stat you make up can change this, stop trying this rubbish. Trying to use per captia doesn't make more magriders appear out of thin air.
He has a point though, For the majority of the day the faction pops aren't forcefully balanced and there are 40%+ nc/tr. Obvioulsy there aren't as many magriders as vanguards/Prowlers. far fewer players means far fewer MBTs. That's just simple logic and I don't see why you have an issue with it. Perihelion isn't dominating the battlefield because everyone who uses it is magically awesome, Its dominating the battlefield because it is an OP weapon that was thoughtlessly put on the best MBT, Something like JGX just can't keep up. So just as much a Perihelion needs a big fat nerf, JGX really needs a big fat buff! So let's brainstorm JGX buffs!
Well yeah, there are less magrdiers than prowlers. Demigans always tries to say "um askully because the VS is lower pop they have equal or more magriders!" like a fool. Depsite whatever way he tries to spin it, the prowler always led in pretty much every stat even with less targets to shoot cus there are many more prowlers sharing the rivals vehicles. So even with his borked made up stat the prowler still dominated. Nah the prowler is still the king, and has been the king of the MBTs for much of the games life. Magrider has been #2 with the vangord being #3. The only time the van & mag were switched is way back when the shield was 3000/4000 raw HP. The JGX is bad/mediocre yeah, don't think many vehicle players will contest that. It only really works in a situation the vanguard was already really good at anyway, close range battles where it can rush down with the shield. JGX+enforcer made that slightly better but it was pretty hard to loose in that scenario anyway so why even bother with JGX, when it comes at the expense of ranged combat. As for buffs I'm not quite sure what to do with it. It just seems like a weird concept and infantry will never allow it to become a true artillery because they'll cry.
Honestly, I think the NC gets the worst of it. TR Lightings seem to get the most advantage out of it on the battlefield. The NCs version is the only one that is an artillery weapon. As such, it is used to fire on dug-in positions aka bases. It works best on player made bases. They can't move to get away from the fire. We did some minimal testing on this a couple of weeks ago by firing from behind mountainsides onto bases. It does work with a forward observer, but it take some practice and is a bit tedious. Sky shields go down quickly opening the player made bases up to aircraft fire and further shelling. You can shell from well outside of enemy base turret range even when not using a ridge line as cover. The NC's is very situational in use. The Prowler's Kingsnake is very powerful at close range. That is the intent. The problem - as always - is the balancing of these weapons. The same thing happened when the gatekeepers came out, but, in that round, it was only the TR weapon that had complete and utter battlefield superiority until it was toned down. You know the intent. I wasted CERTS and DB cash gearing up corsairs because I thought that they would be useful in combat. They can be, but in very limited ways and with those that are willing and/or trained to use certain tactics to assist/use them in battle. Not long after these new weapons came out and, initially, you couldn't buy them with CERTs. I don't think I need to go into what I'm pointing at here. I think it's just another obstacle to work around. NC won two Alerts in a row on Emerald on Wednesday night and one was during a Sudden Death where they were in third place. The NC is good about working around the enemies weaponry ... now, if the could only learn not to shoot each other (mostly in the back), they would be unstoppable.
