TR Prowler is now the deadliest SoB in the game.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MichaelMoen, Oct 6, 2022.

  1. MichaelMoen

    A fully crewed AP Prowler rockin the new quad barrel turret just has no ground counter. At all, other than overwhelming numbers. I had to grab an A2G Reaver and impromptu double team it with a Magrider. It still got the Magrider.

    Is there a serious con to their new weapon that I'm not seeing?
    • Up x 2
  2. RabidIBM

    It's not anywhere near as accurate as any normal tank weapon, so it's only good at close range. For any long range engagement the AP and HEAT are both still better. Therefore, the prowler driver has to decide what kind of engagement they want or expect before drawing. Do they want to dig in at range or finally have an answer to the blue I win button? Also, it's pretty terrible at hitting infantry, so it's a niche weapon that is damn good at its niche. Of course, paper will always complain that scissors are OP.
  3. VV4LL3

    I love watching them shoot at me from 4-5 hexes away and nail headshots. That's impressive.
  4. Demigan

    They already did have that:
    - range, the Prowler is superior at it due to its dual shot ability letting you hit more consistently and figuring out the correct elevation (not to mention best muzzle velocity when deployed)
    - use cover, unless you are completely out in the open at nigh point blank range (at which point you are at a disadvantage compared to any enemy coming around cover to engage you) just using cover to cirvumvent the shield duration is enough to win since the base chassis of the Vanguard is the worst of the 3 by far once the faction ability runs out.
    Basically it means that the Vanguard is outgunned at range by a "regular" Prowler and in CQC against a quad barrel the Vanguard is still outgunned, both times without the means to beat the Prowler when they have similar skill.

    Also the last time we looked into it we proved that the Vanguard gets the least infantry kills by a fair margin, the least vehicle kills by a fair margin AND it dies the most of all 3 MBT's. Again: the "Iwin" vehicle with the most armor and survivability is so bad that it dies the most and has the worst performance.

    I say: remove the shield, HEAVILY buff the base frame of the Vanguard and add a different ability that the base chassis doesnt have to rely on to win engagements.
    • Up x 5
  5. Liewec123

    I run Kingsnake with Garekeeper on my Prowler, I call it "THE GIGA-CHAD"
    8 barrels are better than two!

    As for being the deadliest, I think mag has it beat, and it all comes down to being able to hold charge indefinitely.
    Perihelion should be like any other weapon in the game, being able to hold full charge for 2 seconds max before firing.
    Currently it is allowing mag to instantly begin engagements by reducing their opponent to 30% health.
    And this is on a frame much better than prowler.

    I still think it was a complete mistake to give it a charge mechanic at all,
    mag has no business pumping out the highest alpha damage in the game,
    but letting mags precharge it and the have it ready to go is ridiculous
    and bypasses the whole point of charging.
    • Up x 4
  6. Demigan

    I didnt follow the updates to these new weapons, but it sounds like they copied the topgun they were originally making for VS and just removed the ability to pierce vehicles and infantry.

    Mind you the topgun the VS had was pretty balanced. Yes you could charge and hold it, but it revealed you, didnt maul opponents with the first shot and it sacrificed DPS for a stronger charged shot. Useful but not gamebreaking (and also an almost exact copy of a weapon I've proposed for the NC for years).

    As a main weapon I'd say it should reduce the Magrider's speed when moving with a fully charged gun. That way there is less encouragement to keep it charged all the time and also timing would be a big deal when moving around cover to open fire or when chasing an enemy down.

    What I'm wondering about: how is the Vanguard artillery gun? People might say "oh high damage per shot" but that is meaningless in vehicle battles where DPS/TTK matters more than how much damage you do per shot. If the TR and VS weapons are OP, how is that NC gun? To me it sounds like the resounding success of the Buzzard on the Flash (although some people said it was waaaay better than the Starfall which was "only" the DPS of a Prowler mounted on a Flash).
  7. Liewec123

    JGX is pretty much a straight downgrade to AP.
    the high damage per shot accomplishes nothing since the shots to kill do not change,
    solo vanguard requires 4 shots to kill an MBT, JGX requires 4 shots.
    with a halberd on top AP requires 3 shots and 2 halberds,
    JGX requires 3 shots and 1 halberd (which takes longer than AP+halberd.)

    so not only is it far more difficult to use due to the heaviest drop in the game and low velocity,
    compared with the ease of low drop and great velocity.
    but it also kill things slower than AP due to AP having a much faster reload speed.

    so to summarise it kills things slower and is much harder to use.

    in a straight DPS contest it has a whopping 35 dps lead over AP though, :rolleyes:
    but lets face it, maximum dps is fairly irrelevant in the context of tank fights,
    reliably landing the damage is far more important.

    the splash also may aswell not exist, as we all know 2m in PS2 is absolutely nothing,
    since PS2 "meters" are closer to real world "feet", 2m is barely a step, i am 2m away from this javelin.
    and even if you do manage to graze a vehicle with the miniscule splash the damage is so pathetic that it is pretty irrelevant.

    i did post over on reddit suggesting that the base damage should remain the same, but the weapon should gain damage every "meter" so that it can actually be used as artillery, lobbing shots that will probably miss anything that isn't stationary,
    but will HURT if they do hit.
    but the VS reddit clowns ofcourse buried that suggestion in downvotes.
    • Up x 2
  8. JibbaJabba

    We don't want to think about the real darkness here do we? How's that vehicle -vs- infantry balance going these days :p

    I mean check out the Decimator. The most potent anti-tank rocket in the game. When you use it against the weakest armor of the thing it's designed to kill it only has a TTK of next Tuesday. Did you cleverly move from rock to rock and finally maneuver behind that guy? Heh. Tank drivers just "LOL...anyway..." and pink mist you while they drive off.

    Honestly though they could buff the tank guns further and it wouldn't affect the balance. Instant death versus super double instant death? Until they actually revert infantry nerfs and give them weapons to fight back it will be a joke. The TTK is just to long. Vehicles should fear infantry in close quarters the way infantry fear vehicles in the open. But they don't.
    • Up x 5
  9. LodeTria

    Prowler always was the best tank, and it got even better at cqc now.
    The mag gun is neat.
    Vangord's gun only really works when you pair it with an enforcer, allowing you to get it down to 1 reload kill.
    Dunno about chimera lol.
    • Up x 1
  10. Hereyagoboom

    The new gun on the chimera (larian?) is good for distance. I personally think the NC got jipped this run, but that prolwer turret is amazing. If they get close you are done. BUT, on the chimera what I have found is stay way out of range and snipe them. I have killed more prowlers and sundies in a day that I can remember, Vanguard with the shield is more of a challenge, have to look for sleepy mag drivers but I've been able to kill a few. It's not perfect and I hate the handling and profile on the chimera but that new turret was a welcome upgrade. Stay out of range and you're good. The VS Turret I purchased with nanites but haven't tried it yet but so far chimera by far is my favorite tank right now.
  11. VV4LL3

    The angle of attack of all the MBT's, except the Chimera, but especially the Prowler, is amazing.
    By far outperforms all others.
  12. Botji

    Perihelion does 713 damage per shot so a 3 shot burst "only" does 2139 damage, ~43% of a 5000 health tank meaning it still has 57% health left, almost twice as much health than you are claiming?

    If it wants to fire another 3 shot burst it would take like 6.5-7.5 seconds with the reload added, not exactly sure how long the charge is but I imagine its about 1 second per shot with the 3rd taking a bit longer. Not sure whats up with people, last night when I was playing someone was also complaining about the Perihelion 1-shotting Vanguards from 500m away.


    The usual anti-VS bias I assume, where everything is brought massively out of proportion because otherwise there simply isnt any argument to be made.

    Unless my math betrays me afaik the JGX should do 1650 damage per shot against the front armor on a tank, Halberd does 720.

    So combined they do 2370 damage, give them both a reload cycle and its up to 4740 damage with the Halberd sending its 3rd and the killing blow ~2.25 seconds later for a total of 5460 damage. Single side armor hit from the Halberd would make it push past 5500 damage and be able to kill a Chimera(without Fire Suppression though, so not really).

    The combined TTK against Magrider/Prowler would be ~6.5 seconds without any reload upgrades while a Vanguard with AP would need to fire its main gun 3 times(and halberd at least 2), which would have total 7.5 seconds reload without any upgrades.

    You could/should also use the Enforcer in combination with the JGX since you can then fire the JGX twice, do 3300 damage and then plonk 5 shots from the Enforcer into the Magrider/Prowler = 5250 damage in ~5 seconds. Enforcer does also have enough damage in it to kill a Chimera using FS but it would take 8 seconds so doesnt matter(JGX with some reload upgrades would be ready to fire).


    All that said, I still kinda sort of agree with your summary anyway, it does/can kill things faster than AP but it suffers against mobile targets over range so its not like its a straight upgrade without any drawbacks.




    Meanwhile the Kingsnake pushes out 4200 damage in ~4.9 seconds without any reload upgrades, Barrage or any need to charge it up... haha..
    Yeah so with Barrage basically removing 1 second from the reload, Kingsnake Prowler with a Halberd + Barrage + reload upgrades probably sits nicely with a ~3.5 TTK against Magriders and Chimeras(without FS tho). BIG SAD for VS/NC.
  13. Tr34

    Prowler's Kingsnake can do that without even charging, why should they nerf the charging ability?
    Perihelion is about medium to long range encounters due to its no-drop advantage, it sucks against Kingsnake from close to medium range because it will have long time to shoot the secondary burst of 3 projectiles. Kingsnake shoots 4 projectiles instantly after reload without charging, that makes it the most consistent burst DPS in the game. From close range, Magrider still has very little chance against a Prowler or Vanguard. They gave the the long range advantage to Magrider, that's it.
  14. Terrince

    Firstly, my playstyle does not fit Kingsnake. I am a Mid to Long range Prowler. I think this is where Prowl shines!
    I do not focus on ttk or dps. It's not reliable enough in tank vs tank, unless you like slug-fests.
    Honestly, I think AP is better, but that's me.

    Down sides I see to the Kingsnake are Range, Landing shots, and Turret Rotation.

    King is a definitely a CQC-Mid range cannon. It seems to be King of CQC for now. Though I have not gone CQC with a Van... yet) If I can sneak up on your rear, your dead before you now it.

    High mobility targets will do better against the King. Keeping a distance as a mag is an easy win imo. You can strafe out of the volley quite easily. Less velocity and tt's automatic. Unlike the other TR cannons.
    Even if you get hit with half the volley it is only 700 or hit with three its 1,050. AP is 600 for one and 1,200 for two.
    Personally I find this to be it's biggest weakness. You must land 3 shots to be liable threat.

    Turret rotation is slower than the other TR cannons. Obviously, makes sense.
    Staying mobile will keep you from taking a full volley even in CQC because of this rotation speed. I could not keep up with a Harasser or Lightning using the King at point blank, AP I can very easily. Once you fire it appears to slow even more.

    This is what I have right now. I gotta do more runs with it. I do not have the best aim with Kingsnake... Yet lol!
    (Though I constantly get 2 and 3 rounds on target)

    Wonder how long it will stay as is.
  15. Botji

    I just want to point out that tank shells do +50% damage against tanks so a single hit is actually 525 damage(if it hits front armor, extra +15% from the sides and another +50% from behind).

    So even if "only" 2 hits per volley its still 1050 damage on a 3.5 second reload.
    In comparison a Magrider AP does 1125 damage on a 3.25 reload so missing half the Kingsnake shots is almost equivalent to what the Magrider AP does while still having the potential for almost double the damage.
    • Up x 1
  16. TrojonKing 1st

    Plain and simple The VS MBT is the best tank on the battle field. it has turbo boost which allowes it to jump some base wall's, Zero drop and on Oshur map VS get and extra heavy Naval Vehicle what with it's hoover.
  17. Amador

    Indeed, there is a detail you're not seeing...

    Being that you're an NC player, you should've made this post about buffing the Vanguard so that it performs on par with the tanks of the other factions. The Vanguard being observed to "fall behind" for years, which I believe most players would be inclined to agree with.

    ... Yet instead of asking to buff the NC JGX12 which is generally regarded as an underperformer, you've chosen to lash out and demand nerfs for the TR Kingsnake.

    Maybe you should've spent your time elaborating on how to improve the Vanguard and the JGX12 so that it reaches a certain performance that is suitably agreeable with weapons of this category which also captures the style and flavor of your faction.
  18. Terrince

    My apologies. I was under the impression it was 15% from Side, 50% Rear, and Face value front. Also I didn't know it was an extra 50% against tanks! Wish they gave that kind of information in description of the cannons. Or somewhere in game.
    Would you give me the link to the +50% on tanks, I want to see the values against other vehicles. And change my notes...

    I failed to mention Kingsnake performs poorly against Infantry. Go Heavy or Light Assault with Ambushers (or drifters) and Flak armor, if they have a good gunner it will be challenging, otherwise you'll make them run. In my testing it took two full volleys to kill a flake engineer. That was with direct hits.
  19. LodeTria

    These seem mostly accurate: https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance
    Might be a few special case ones that are wrong, but otherwise should be fine.
  20. OgreMarkX

    I don't tank much. So here are my corresponding "useful" comments. Know also too that I TR Main 99.9% of the time. Filthy VS and Drunk NC...

    1. The deadliest TR vehicle is not the new Prowler equipped with the Giga-Chad gun (hat tip Liewec123). The deadliest TR vehicle is any vehicle driven by [SOFA]JayMizle (Connery)...because of how many TR he runs over. JAY!!! EYES ON THE ROAD MAN! DAMN!

    2. All tanks should be hard(er) kill, and feared. Magrider seems most deadly to me, due to movement, positioning, speed, and weapon selection. I am fine with that.

    3. Vanguards have never been OP in my opinion. If anything, they should be made beefier, able to absorb more damage.

    4. TR twin barrel and now quad barrel...accuracy? Picture the Spaceball's stormtrooper ship gunner...severely cross-eyed. That's me, sitting in my prowler, trying to aim. I also have my tongue drooping out of the side of my mouth and one of my cross-eyes squinted. I hit everything that I don't aim at, so if I kill you in game, soooo sorry.

    5. I think all factions should have an option to up-armor or up-gun or to gain a faction specific trait for their tank pull that eithers costs a full 750 nanites per pull, or slows nanite recovery by X% for X amount of time, to limit times you can pull an upgraded tank. A sort of mini colossus? Understood that balance and impact might make that a bad idea.

    In the end, I actually prefer Heavy Assault, Rawket Lawnchair, Catlike, and a single man open field charge against any amount of enemy vehicles. Come at me bro!

    .../reported.