[Suggestion] MAX Units improved.

Compared to what? You? Is that really where this is going?

Ah yes. Another of the Naysayers complaining about MAX suits being op. Notice how he doesnt actually give examples of exactly WHY they are overpowered. I am going to assume that what he really means to say is "I cant instagib a max with small arms and therefore it is overpowered". This was the typical mentality that led to MAX suits being nerfed in the first place. So please, as I have done for the past 7-10 years now, let me spell it out for you.

MAX suits are heavy infantry units that are typically only useful to veteran players because of the sheer number of certs that must be invested into them to be useful. They are indeed vary powerful at what they do, but this is because they are specialist infantry that require careful outfitting to be useful and have vary clear weaknesses to each. NC MAXs lack range, TR MAXs lack mobility and do poorly in CQC and vs maxes suffer against other MAXs, C-4 and tank mines due to Z.O.E. effect. At the same time, AI MAXs suffer to air and vehicles, AV MAXs suffer to air and infantry, and AA MAXs suffer to infantry and vehicles. They are good at killing whatever they are built for, but terrible at anything else,

The problem right now is that MAX DO need a buff. Maybe not in the infantry damage department, but in survivability vs C-4 and in their vehicle combat capabilities for NC and VS as both currently suffer in the ranges they are designed for. Surprisingly, I have no complaints for the TR MAX as they fit a vary specific support gunner role with their lockdown. I might advocate for a further accuracy buff to the mercies, but that is all.

However, for the sake of the other faction MAXs, I would recommend a return to the original flak armor system. The new ordinance armor does not protect against what they game refers to as "Direct hits" with C-4 (that being any C-4 that lands within 3-5 ft). This means that even with the ordinance armor, MAX suits can and will be instagibbed by it more often then not and this (when combined with the new ambusher jump jets and implants that boost maneuverability) ensures that MAX suit survivability is far too low for its nanite price-tag. The original flak armor upgrade did not have this system, and it allow a MAX to eat between 2-3 bricks if positioned correctly.

Next I would suggest a repealing of the magazine nerfs to the raven rocket launchers. Vehicles right now have VARY few counters at range, and returning these weapons to their former glory would do wonders in striking back against distant targets that would otherwise be able to dodge conventional missiles (looking at you magriders).

Next I would suggest that MAX suits be given specialized implants for small arms damage reduction (this being something like a scaling damage resistance for each consecutive hit or or resistance type perk) and the removal of the EOD HUD compatibility with MAX suits to balance it out. Feel free to add your own suggestions for MAX specific implants, I would love to see them.

For VS, I would suggest that ZOE be buffed for its projectiles to retain the damage buff across all distances. This would allow ZOE MAXs to significantly improve their AV and AA capabilities and give them an effective hunter-killer role among MAX suits as apposed to the infantry support role they are forced into now. Beyond this, I do not see any major buffs needed to VS weapons as they all serve decently across medium range combat.

As for weapons, I made a whole thread for it in the MAX class discussion forum. Feel free to check it out and add your own ideas.

Ultimately the answer is not to simply buff the MAX suits themselves, but give them more options to improve. Not every MAX suit needs to come out of the box with an absurd level of damage resistance or DPS potential, but like all builds in planetside 2 they should be able to do so once enough time, effort, and certs are put into them. One suggestion might be to give them more utility roles such cordite harvesters, repair MAXs, and other non-combat roles. Another might be to reduce their nanite price to reflect their significantly decreased performances as apposed to when the game came out.

Either way, something needs to change. We cannot continue ignoring them, and the MAX suits remain too important a part of planetsides gameplay to remove or nerf further.

I believe there is a much simpler way to address those that dissent, which takes far less rationale and explanation...

You need to remember that Planetside 2 is filled with "Infantry Only" players. These players do exist, and permeate the community of this game. They also screech the loudest at times.

They complain about Air-To-Ground. They complain about Armor. They complain about "Overpop Zerging" (which you can read in /yell chat daily). They complain about anything that poses a "greater threat", as it snubs and disrupts their low-pop "Infantry Only" gameplay.

... Because they fail to understand that Planetside isn't CoD. Planetside has -always- been about large-scale war-like conflict.

Always expect and anticipate "Infantry Only" players to complain about things to advocate their bias - which ultimately detracts from other aspects of the game until it has been marginalized to the point of obscurity and obsolescence.

"Infantry Only" players have already successfully trivialized the presence of MAX Units for years. MAX Units are no longer considered a "Class", but merely a temporary disposable tool that is occasionally and "begrudgingly" encountered in conflicts.

Due to the lack of mobility for MAX Units, and their handicap which requires dedicated transportation, they simply are 100% unable to keep up with highly mobile infantry squads that redeploy to conflicts despite being an infantry unit itself. MAX Units have a greatly diminished life expectancy for "longevity" with the ever-increasing threat of anti-tank weaponry and explosives.

Vehicle vs. vehicle mains complain all the time about infantry.
Ground vehicles complain about Libs all the time (and to some extent ESFs/Valks).
A2A mains complain about G2A all the time.

You only see more infantry complaints because 1) infantry is the lowest tier and 2) there are more infantry players than everything else combined.

Just lower the nanite cost down to 100 so that its no longer as painfull to lose em.

just gonna link my old thread here

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/what-should-the-max-be.252475/

general buff to surviveability, add squadsupport abilities, turn the max more into a shield than a spear (wasn´t exactly a good spear to be honest) ... a shield that can take shots inside AND outside of a base ...

ZOE indeed is bad to use.
10% damage buff for 20% increased damage taken is a trap.
Should be 25% damage buff for 25% increased damage taken and 50% increased drain rate. Considering how the new AMRs destroy Maxs with 2 headshots, it should happen.

The Disengage implant is also garbage and needs to be rethought.

If you've ever died to the NS AMR before the new Empire-Specifics got released, you can die to 3 headshots or less from full HP in a VS Max.

I agree that the best short-term fix for MAX Units is to reduce the overall cost. But the MAX Unit still needs sprucing up in terms of weapon attachments. I would rather more features and capability than a cheaper cost. The Arsenal update completely ignored the existence of MAX Units, which is a complete shame.

However... I would personally suggest to reduce the cost of MAX Units down to about 300 Nanites, just for starters. This essentially makes the MAX Unit as expensive as a Harasser or Lightning. Being priced fairly enough to be reasonable, yet expensive enough so that you can't afford to simply be careless and waste it.

... I was in the middle or replying to your comment, but I was completely struck with an "epiphany" of sorts and rewrote my whole reply.

So get a load of this...

Why have the Planetside 2 developers released all these new Anti-Material Rifles, yet MAX Units have fulfilled the anti-vehicle role since Planetside 1? Why didn't the Planetside 2 developers invest time and effort into trying to expand upon and further enhance MAX Units to become the "premier" anti-vehicle platform for infantry in the Arsenal update? Anti-Materiel Rifles cannot fill the shoes of an anti-vehicle MAX Unit by comparison.

MAX Units literally carry some of the hardest hitting infantry-based anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons in the game.

Just today, I faced at least 5 VS players packing Anti-Materiel Rifles while operating a Lightning tank and hitting me for very poor damage. Yet not a single one of them grabbed an Anti-Tank MAX Unit. In the end, they all got wiped out at the Crossroads Watchtower.

It blows my mind how people will waste their time using the AMR gimmick guns, rather than to just pull an anti-vehicle MAX Unit.

Planetside 2 developers need to stop ignoring MAX Units. I understand that Anti-Infantry MAX Units may be a touchy subject. But Anti-Vehicle MAX Units should've been glorified in the anti-vehicle role from day #1, not gimmick AMR's. Getting wrecked by air? Pull a Burster MAX. Getting wrecked by armor? Pull an Anti-Tank MAX. They work very well.

Planetside 2 needs to seriously get back on track and make MAX Units the "go to" for anti-vehicle infantry classes. Everyone's been crying about getting vehicle farmed and its no wonder. When the MAX Unit fell to the wayside from all the nerfs, the vehicle farm only intensified and the infantry only cried out louder.

Fix MAX Units and stop ignoring them - they've been the counter to vehicle farms the whole time.

The problem with the MAX is that it has too powerful benefits that need too strong downsides to counter it.

The sheer amount of effective health is balanced by a slower frame that cant partially heal itself as it has no shield. For those situations where they are powerful, mostly chokepoints where their speed isnt as important, the devs designed counters which make the MAX feel weak (although someone coming into your pointhold holding a MAX counter will usually be incapable of defending against small-arms enemies).

What I would see as a proper rebalance of the MAX:
- reduce its effective HP to small-arms to for example 50%. This makes small-arms a more viable way to dispose of MAX's.*
- a compensation for the lost effective HP: the nanite cost is brought back to 200.*
- the MAX has a default system to regain some health regardless of their loadout, either a default self-repair module or an infantry shield or both. The infantry shield would hold maybe 25% of the maximum healthpool.
- a single C4 deals 70% of a baseline MAX's health. Enough to be dangerous especially with the lower small-arms resistance but not a cheap instakill.
- MAX's get the same walk and run speed as the other classes, but with a small time before they actually move that fast. 0.5 seconds for example.*
- MAX's get a travel ability. Double-tapping the sprint button will activate it and increase your running speed, but remove the strafe ability and reduce your maximum turn rate. This to compensate for MAX's being lost on redeploy.
- give MAX's the ability to slot in a repair tool or healgun as an ability. That way a MAX can play more than a murder-everything suit.
- single weapon modes. A selection of weapons that require both arms to use, but let you ADS. No infantry sniping weapons, but you could imagine a powerful auto-canon to deal with aircraft or shoot infantry at longer ranges with, or a beefed rocketlauncher, a light version of the ES secondaries (Vulcan, PPA, Canister, Boombox etc).

As future upgrades:
- MAX's can now slot in multiple abilities and tools and use a variety of keys to access them (B, X, G, 1, 2, 3). You can have one or two shoulder slots for an additional specialized weapon or a tool, such as a missile, a longer range weapon, a repair tool or a directional shield for a bit of extra health.
- You can also start adding deployables and class ability upgrades in some of the MAX slots to make it more of a support frame, but that might be going too far with the changes above already made. If your MAX can function as a Medic, Engineer or place down large pieces of cover and power special items while they are nearby they will be a more ready sight on the battlefield.


* for those who believe that the MAX should keep its chunky beefiness, you can ignore these specific changes.

Oh, and just as a reminder... Let's remember that Orbital Strikes can instantly kill MAX Units even when they are sheltered within buildings and at full health.

Why is that even possible? That should've been considered a bug since day #1.

Makes me wonder if the remedy would involve giving MAX Units 400 Health Points to exist alongside their 2000 Armor Points? After all, back in Planetside 1, MAX Units -did- have Health Points and Armor Points. Meaning that MAX's still needed to be healed -and- repaired if their suit's integrity became compromised.

Never made sense to me that a MAX Unit's mechanical armor points represent the operators actual health points.

Let them equip the health regen implant already

I don't know if its just VS Max or all Maxes. Tho VS max seems so basic. Like bare bones. No fun shield to hold like nc. I don't know how useful tr's foot placement skill is, seems less useful than shield. Tho what does vs have? A dps boost skill that makes you take more dmg?

Zealot overdrive, I haven't really seen good use for it. The max doesn't need more dmg, needs to take less dmg, so that trade off is horrible. My max is never having problems with doing enough dmg, it's surviving all the pellets of bullets, that's the real problem. So having a skill that takes more dmg, aka Zealot overdrive, is near pointless.

Anyhow besides the skills. Lets talk about the weapons. The vs max all of its Anti Infantry guns, I've used the Nebula only all these years. Is their a point to the other AI guns. I'm sure someone will mention some lil reason to use the other guns. I don't see it. The Nebula, that's it. The Blueshift is good, tho not as good as Nebula & the rest is meh. The guns don't even serve multi-purposes, just diff bloom for the same range, mid range. So you pick the gun with the least bloom, aka Nebula. As for using a vs max for near range, ye right no shotgun & no shield.

The NC max is obviously the best, even if nc throw some lame stats at you, no, it's still true. NC Max has the best airpad AV. The vs max essentially has a lancer for av guns & also a way slower ammo av type. I'm over these lancer style guns, something that's for " snipers " yet does such low dps most Mosi's just run away after getting hit with the 1st shot. & isn't able to solo tanks with a lancer either most of the time. So the vs max has the equivalent to that. Or worst, some slow av guns, that shoot so slow, its like your shooting turtle shells, & they have a hard time killing 1 enemy infantry. If you need to defend yourself.

Those blue homing AV NC max guns, raining blue missiles ontop of crowns airpad, verse the TI vehicle term road, that is 100% better than any AV gun the vs max has or tr has. NC max has best guns that differ from shotgun range to mid range too. The vs has equal rated mid range gun, to the max's, but the vs does not have a equal dps close range gun.

Maybe the TR max & VS max are tied for the same place, as TR max hasn't impressed me either. Tho def NC is better than the 2. Overall tho Zealot overdrive needs to go & be totally replaced with something that adds to defense. or speed. Tho weakening yourself, for extra dps you don't need? eh.

Really max's require something to make them " interesting ", as of right now they perform like a bland beefier heavy assault. Every Anti Infantry max gun, should have separate uses & the divide of those uses would need to be greater than what it is right now. Since I only have used 1 AI gun mainly & don't need to switch. TR & VS AV guns need to perform as good as a NC AV guns. & perhaps max's need a bonus utility, as like I said they perform like beefier heavy assaults with less items to use. For 450 nanites.

Not to mention trying to AV with max in general, especially for VS or TR, is nearly a waste of time. Very few places to get off a good shot, without getting run over, or shot by 10 enemy infantry. The max verse AV needs a lot of work. Besides NC max's spamming on top of a airpad, blue missles, that's the only time a AV max is effective. All the other times or for tr vs, a max rarely scores a vehicle kill. Mostly AV maxes for vs, die before even seeing a vehicle. As they barely are able to defend themselves if they run into 1 enemy infantry, before finding a enemy vehicle to shoot.

Max's should be able to fight off lightnings & harassers better, without needing some cheap way of fighting, like standing ontop of a mountain with homing missles. I'd suggest a more ground level improvement for AV max fights. & no pest homing missiles. The homing missles make people annoyed at AV max's, so ye the way AV guns for max's would have to be something people aren't able to spam at 100 feet above ground lvl. Yet useful for a max to run outside a door & shoot some vehicle, more likely. Without dying too easily. Its almost like AV max's should have more hp than AI max guns. Separate hp based on your weapon. Just so a AV max may run outside on ground lvl, without getting run over, shot to death by 10 infantry while having a hard time solo'ing 1 infantry, or may duel tanks / harassers better face to face, without needing find a rock always to hide behind. Or barely walking a few feet from the door.

P.s. & Ye I'm sure the new archer has been wrekking max's left & right. Less it got nerfed already. Seems op verse max. Also as a c4 fairy, I'm able to c4 the most played MAX main on the server. So getting c4 on a max is ez. I don't believe max's should have more resistance to c4. I just am saying that max's aren't these kill machines, they die all the time. Max's def die sooner than MBT's & they both are 450. Even with a ress, this still is true. They die 3 times sooner than a MBT dies once. Then the 3rd time they get no ress. Average ratio.

just gonna throw that one in:

hey DBG remember how you added these new basilisk-esque vehicle turrets to the game ... maybe offer these to the MAXs as well? ammong other more options ...

It doesn't need examples. It's like asking for examples of why water is wet.

If they aren't overpowered why is there a nanite cost to use them? If you wanna haggle the nanite cost, sure. But you'll have to start by admitting one is needed, won't you

3k health and just short of double the DPS? Should I pull up the KDR and KPU of the weapons on Voidwell? LOL c'mon man.

If example is truly needed... just go spawn one.

(this is the phrase someone uses when they are going to strawman something I didn't say and then win an argument against that)

Told ya.

And... Wrong. I can't instagib a lightning with small arms either but I don't consider it op. That clearly is not my thought. Next time keep your straw man to yourself.

Yes, please mansplain everything as if we don't play the game and can see with our own eyes that maxes are OP. My eyes are gonna roll back and get stuck.

They take very few certs to become useful. A bit more than a well kitted infantry loadout, a lot less than any vehicle beyond the flash. I don't consider BR 25 to be "veteran" yet.

Maxes are extremely useful to noobs. It helps them compete.

Exactly. Thank you for saying it.

So what? So does everything else in the game. Try killing an aircraft as an medic. Or a max as an infiltrator. Or a sunderer with a striker. Or a sniper with an smg.

Again, like everything else in the game. And Maxes have an easier time of it. How many times have you finished clearing air, then switched your burster to an Anti-infantry loadout.? Try that crap with a skyguard.

I get what you want but you need to come back to reality before you can embark on getting it.

Maxes are great for new players who struggle to win as infantry. They are left overpowered for this reason and I don't mind it. Veterans abusing this OPness causes imbalance in the game. This I mind.

Make NO mistake though. They ARE OP.

fix..
Charge 600 nanites for one.
Put a timer on them. Call it a "battery" that an engie or equipment terminal can recharge. Play as a team, you get your max. Play solo just to abuse one? Not for very long.

There. Now they aren't crawling all over the server ruining the game for everyone not in one. Get to this situation and then we can talk improvements or buffs.

It's 2 with default and Kinetic armor. 3 if using Ordnance.

It makes for a strange meta where the S1 / Shrike / ML-7 are better at killing maxes since they require the same 3 shots but they reload much faster. Deci is usually used instead of this meta because it oneshots infantry when the others don't.

Yes. When I use a Max suit, it's overpowered.

Are you worse when you put one on?

Depends on if I'm in the best place to take advantage of its strengths and mitigate the weaknesses. NC MAXes are still not good for ranged AI combat, we tend to have to rely on our Riot Shield there. And when the enemy is closer, MAXes generally die quickly.

Infantry have way more ways to kill us up close than from far away. Though AMRs kind of changed that.

For the record, the best MAX for me is the TR MAX by far, I do way better with it than any other.

Yes, that's fair. There are certainly stupid times to pull a max where you would be better off not.

But... as a whole, and for an honest discussion, yes, you'll be more powerful when you pull a max suit than if not.

Next time you play Planetside 2, you're gonna pull a MAX suit. You're gonna use it outdoors and beyond the shelter of a base structure - outside of its operational envelope. And you'll use AI or AA/AV weaponry (of your choosing) to support your team across open environment. And you'll make your best effort to play the MAX Class with longevity in mind, without it being a reduced to a disposable armor suit.

Be sure to reflect on how many Archers / Mastheads are out and about currently. And how just about every vehicle in a 100 meter radius will make their best effort to run you over for a 1-shot kill. Including that Flash ATV with Wraith invisibility ready to cheese you to the exit game button.

You can also begin expressing how taxing it becomes having to rely on public transportation without being compelled to mash your redeploy key, in hopes of keeping up with your team. The same infantry team which has probably already hit their redeploy key, and potentially disappeared off to attack/defend a base a kilometer away on the other side of a mountain ridge, because that's Amerish life.

When you're done, you can offer your apology when you concede that MAX's are impractical outside their operational envelope - being the relative safety of base structures. The perception of MAX's being "overpowered" comes from players striving tooth-and-nail to preserve the longevity of their MAX Unit, playing to their advantages and acknowledging their operational limitations.

Even though a MAX is supposed to be the "spearhead" for your team, the lack of mobility makes every corner you need to push a potential C4 "instagib". In the beginning, rocket launchers were a fair threat. But now? Anti-Materiel Rifles have become a nearly unavoidable threat that makes your 450 nanite armor suit feel like a lead anchor - not even considering if they manage to land a headshot.

Anti-Material Rifles were supposed to be a "long range" solution against Armor and MAX's. Problem is, AMR's should've been given a 40 to 50 meter "arming distance" to ensure that they were utilized for distant targets to fulfill their intended role. This would've prevented AMR's from being used as close-range cheese while indoors.

After all, what purpose do rocket launchers serve other than to shoot at MAX Units while indoors? The solution and balance was already there. The lack of insight caused AMR's to become the wrench thrown into the works.