VS Directive Reward Weapons are no longer rewards

I've been trying to find something good about the VS directive reward weapons now that they've been nerfed into the ground. I have the Skorpios, Eclipse and Betelgeuse and they were all workable before the nerf, now they're rubbish and this is in comparison with their standard weapons, the Eridani, Solstice and Orion respectively. The Betel is just barely usable, although in the thick of a heavy firefight will overheat and leave you high and dry (and dead) when faced with the likes of a Gauss Saw or a Godsaw or virtually any other LMG on either NC or TR.

The problem is that the Directive reward weapons used to actually be rewards - they were worth grinding to get them. The Skorpios used to have the extended battery of the Eridani with 35 shots before it overheated. Now it has 20. Apparently it will shortly have 25 or is it 24? It's still not a reward with that sort of nerf. The Eclipse has 24 shots which is ridiculous for a reasonably fast firing carbine. The Betelgeuse has 40 shots, which again is painfully small compared with the default Orion. NONE of these 'Directive Reward Weapons' are rewards now, and are not worth the grind to get them. They are supposed to be better than the default weapon on which they are based. They are not. I have two otherwise identical fits on each class for which I have directive reward weapons, one with the directive weapons, the other with the default weapons, which I can switch between at will to see the difference in real use. Overwhelmingly, the directive reward weapons are letting me down where the default weapons continue to deliver the performance I once relied upon in order to grind for the directive rewards.

The VS directive reward weapons, at least for me, are no longer rewards. As far as I'm concerned they've been nerfed so badly I am tending towards no longer using them at all. From what I've read here and elsewhere, the NC and TR directive reward weapons have arguably received buffs which have made them even better than they already were. What could possibly be the reason for this discrepancy? If it was to deal with the VS player base it was misdirected - this will only send that player base back to the default weapons or something better. It won't hobble them, and it won't make them defect to NC or TR. All it does is make the directive reward weapons pointless for VS.

Im mainly playing NSO now but Welcome to VS!
The only faction that gets all their faction perks with added drawbacks to balance out the benefit or outright outweigh them.

How about some 'no bullet drop' on your weapons?
You will only have to pay for it with lower projectile velocity on a bunch of stuff, including shotguns that dont gain any benefit from not having bullet drop in the first place.. oh and it wont affect most long range weapons either, that would actually be good, so no.

How about a 10% damage and forward movement speed on your MAX?
You will only have to pay for it with taking 20% extra damage in return and lighting up like a Christmas tree so everyone knows to shoot you while you are taking more damage from everything + blinding the user.

How about a HEAT mechanic for your weapons?
You will only have to pay for it with the weapon having a tiny pool of ammo available at any given point in time but hey at least you wont have to reload so often! *SAW user walking around in the background killing 10 people with still plenty of ammo left*


aaaand so on.

How's the Immortal pistol? I haven't tried it yet. Tho I assume it's only slightly better than the beamer. Also not worth the grind?

This reminds me of Infiltrator ASP skills. 2 grenade access which are meh. So I'm ASP 2 lvl 85 right now, as a stalker main & still no infil asp skills to unlock worth a hoot.

I've not unlocked these yet. Tho from fighting Aurax'd guns, tho only ones that usually seem op are the aurax'd scout rifles. No opinion on the other genre of guns.

Betelgeuse, already overperforming for over half a decade:

- overheat penalty entirely removed, doesn't even have a long reload.
- has been granted a variety of useful attachments.

You're getting a weapon that has effects comparable to an additional suit slot with ammunition belt and additional implant slots comparable with scavenger and mutiple ammo printers. What are you on about?

Yeah this!
I've been trying to stay out of this because it gets me a little bit furious seeing VS complaining about Beteld0uche getting a BUFF.
Voidwell shows us stats back 6 years, and for that entire time betel has been MASSIVELY outperforming every other LMG, and now it has been given a shorter reload and attachment access for the cost of only 5 bullets.
And Vs have the nerve to call this a nerf!

Also Chaos is THE BEST semi auto shotgun now, you can mow down as many people as you like and it will cool down sooooo fast, you pretty much have Hershal's shotgun meme from Walking Dead with infinite ammo and no reloads cheats enabled.

Yes Skorpios and Eclipse (those 2 weapons none of you were using anyway) got nerfed, that was dumb.

But Revenant is now performing unnaturally well, second only to the bugged DMR, Beteld0uche has never been stronger, and your shotgun is a farming powerhouse.
Stop complaining about buffs or your pal Wrel might stop showering you with them.

Auraxed the Eclipse and Darkstar before the nerf, I don't feel the need to ever touch them again, horrible DPM.

Betel has 45 rounds (6435 damage) now, which is enough damage to get 6 kills with bodyshots.
Darkstar and Eclipse have 24 rounds (3432 damage), which is a little more than 3 kills.
Skorpios has 20 rounds (2860 damage) and can't even get 3 kills with bodyshots.


But now, Betel has access to rail and barrel attachments while Darkstar lost it's built-in foregrip and compensator with no penalties. They've basically buffed the Betel and nerfed everything else.

No they are not. I don't think I need to explain why a gun that is locked behind an XP-Grind wall being a direct upgrade would be problematic. They may look good in the stats page, but that's because the only ones using them generally know what they're doing. Historically, a Directive weapon that is actually competitive with its peers has been the exception, rather than the rule.

1: as Kane Guy says, it shouldnt be a superior weapon as a reward. Its like auraxing a class and then giving the player superior class-abilities. At best these weapons would require every ounce of skill you learned to be used and then you get a slightly better weapon.
Side note, just a cosmetic is a bit of a let down. Especially since others are most likely to see it on the death screen assuming they dont skip it immediately. Some flare, a stupid but fun ability perhaps could make it more fun to aurax a class?

2: while there are definitely some weapons nerfed into the ground, the Betelgeuse is definitely not one of them. It got one nerf where its COF growth per damage point became equal with its counterpart weapons on the TR and NC (and it had kept this advantage for years and years alongside the Orion). Further it got 10 bullets lost which isnt much as 40 bullets at 167/750 is a devastating power. On top of that it can now choose its attachments instead of being stuck with some random selection.
Ofcourse then the creme de la creme: the HEAT mechanic. So powerful that it has rocketed the Betel into vastly OP territory since day 1. Even at its worst days it performs better than almost every other weapon, in fact other weapons need to have a good day while the Betel has a bad one to counter it. We have only a few of these ridiculously OP differences in the game, such as the Vulcan Harasser compared to the other setups.

The VS hallucination squad naturally thinks its all to do with magic skill that VS players have ONLY when touching certain VS specific weapons, rather than the most obvious difference between it and its counterparts.

Should we look at the BS* weapon lineup? Ofcourse! Some of the reward weapons definitely need a buff or a change, others definitely need to get hit with the nerf hammer some more until its at least closer to the other weapons its supposed to compare to.



*this is a typo for VS but its rather apt.

Yes they are meant to be better. Otherwise why grind for them? What's the point. Oh, you want to directive points do you? OK, that's fine for you. I'm actually not interested in the directive points - I want the reward weapon, something that's actually better than the base weapon I had to aurax to get it in the first place. If it's not better, then I don't see the point. And that means better in every way, not better in some ways, traded off with making it worse in others. For those from NC and TR who want to argue, let us see you play VS and use the Betel the way it is now. I'd love to get your reactions. From what I can see, you're all just quoting material without any real experience of using them.

I noticed the typical response from TR and NC players. Doesn't matter - what matters to me is that these weapons, to me are not what they used to be and not worth grinding for. The base weapons are better to me. I'm sure there are plenty of others who think that way too. NC and TR, I know you would rather VS wasn't even here - we aren't like you guys, don't have the same sort of mindsets as you do. It would be better if it were just you two factions, I think. Then you wouldn't have VS getting in the way of your fights.

Finally something we can agree on!
the game would indeed be more fun if it was just the two balanced factions.

And this pathetic mewling is basically the VS with their mask off. "Me, me and me" along with strawmen about what we supposedly want. You dont care about proper balance, or design, or easily verifiable performance statistics. You only care about having more power than others just for being VS. You portray a measured tone of "some weapons on the VS need buffs but some also need more nerfs" as "you want the VS gone". No I dont and most others dont either. What we want is a more fair and balanced game that is fun to play. And if one faction has a gun that performs better than all others in its category even on its worst day then that screws with the fair and balanced parts. But the bias is so strong with you VS complainers that you still portray the best LMG in the game as a useless toy.

I can agree that you VS players have a different mindset. A defeatist one about how your faction somehow has the worst gear but only has the best players ofcourse! All factions have biased players and viewpoints, but the VS have made a profession around it. Go as far back as Launch and you can see this mantra about how the Saron was soooo bad, or the LPPA, or the PPA, or the Lancer, or how every VS weapon is somehow missing the damage or ROF or whatever to compete, or how the VS faction abilities on small-arms are absent while the VS has the most faction abilities and the most small-arms with faction abilities.

The list goes on, and often its literally the opposite.

No, they literally are not 'meant to be better'. That has never, not once been how Directive weapons work. Before the last patch, most Directive weapons were fairly mediocre overall, with guns like the Fortuna and the Goose being the exceptions rather than the rule, simply because the guns they were based on were already very good. Directive weapons are for showing off, and usually by the time you unlock them you have enough experience to get away with using them.

I didn't think this needed to be explained, but apparently the consequences of having a direct upgrade "in every way" over other guns locked behind a literal skill-wall is lost on you. Dropping in as a new player and getting melted by a BR120 using a gun you won't even get to see for over 4k kills is bad enough without said gun also being a direct upgrade to the one you're using. Veterans don't really need any more of a leg up over new players.

Most people here play all three factions bud, stop trying to stir the pot.

Also, saying this:

After saying this:

Amuses me.

For the record, I do think they went a little too far with the mag size reductions on some of the VS guns, especially the ones that were already mediocre. Your other opinions are nuts.

Well, at least with me, you will likely get what you wish for. However you coat it, nerfing these weapons in the way they were nerfed (as opposed to the so called buffs you believe they got) is one of many reasons I no longer like this game as much as I did. So this little VS player is more likely to leave than stay. The attitudes of NC and TR players like yourself are enough to make me sick of the game, in fact. I'm not one of these VS players you speak of, I'm not a sweaty try hard, I'm just someone who liked the style of VS over that of TR and NC. I do have characters in both those factions and play on them from time to time, but your attitude is making me feel less and less like doing so. Congratulations, you have shown yourself to be exactly the sort of player I want nothing to do with, including playing against you.

If that's the case, I can't see the point in having them. To me, every directive reward weapon has to be better than its base variant to be worth the effort. One that I will agree with you on, though is the Gallows. It's absolutely, completely, just the base gun with a skull on it. That one is for showing off.

OK, I get where you're coming from, and frankly, if that's the case, then I'm not interested in the directive reward weapons, OR grinding to get them. I can't see the point.

I know most people play all three factions. In fact so do I, but less and less the more I read this stuff. The point I was making was not about whether people play VS, but whether they have the Betel, use it, and find it OP. The Betel is fun to use, but it's really just an Orion with a heat mechanic and now with less shots before overheat than the Orion has before long reload. Yes, you can burst fire it to extend its 'magazine' but in the end, if you have to fire it continuously until overheat, the Orion would give you more shots. Have you used the Betel? How did you find it? Did you find the recoil (same as the Orion) manageable? I didn't to start with, with the Orion, and then again with the Betel. It takes a lot of getting used to, and my experience of the Gauss Saw for instance, was that it was a lot easier to keep on target.

I'm not stirring the pot. The statements have been made that the Betel is OP. The use of stats from other sites supposedly support this, but has anyone who says this actually used the Betel and found it was OP. THAT's all I was asking. As well, there are a lot more directive reward weapons than just the Betel. The Skorpios used to be useable, is now almost not. The Eclipse is OK, but still can be a problem. Again, has anyone from NC or TR actually used these weapons and compared them with their own directive rewards in the same categories? I read mostly from others that the VS directive reward weapons are very hard hit by the latest updates, even the one which supposedly dealt with how badly they were nerfed. I'd like opinions from TR and NC players who have these weapons on their VS chars to tell us how they honestly find them now. Just quoting from sites doesn't cut it. Only personal experience with them really has any bearing.

I have another comment about the fact that there seem to be a lot of personal opinions here made as if they were fact, things like that the directive reward weapons are not meant to be better than the base models. I think they are, or they wouldn't be rewards. Can the TR and NC people here honestly say that their own directive reward weapons are not better than their base models? If so, how are they not better? The Gauss Saw for me was awful for its long reload. The Godsaw apparently shortens this from 7s to 5s (long) at the expense of a smaller magazine, which is still 65 rounds. At 500rpm, that will easily outlast the Betel with 45 shots at 750rpm. Even not considering the Betel in this, I don't see that this is much of a nerf.

It is sad to say but in some cases its better to lose some players than keep them. Like a large part of the current Skyknight culture that has ruined the game for more people than their entire population since launch, and worse they keep asking for things and getting it. Like the AA turrets getting neutered even more by halving their range.
People who abuse certain weapons and then defend that choice to keep it that way arent good for player retention.

Also you may not have noticed it in your bias but we've pointed out that it got both buffs and nerfs in the last update. Like having its COF bloom nerfed to be equal to other similar weapons (but that advantage was defended tooth and nail before ofcourse!) But also buffed by now having complete freedom to choose its attachments.

Are there VS weapons that need straight buffs? Yes there defenitely are! But trying to make the best performing LMG in the game look like a toy is not going to make you believable. Also there's two sides to any experience in a shooter: the user and the victim. You cannot discount the experience on the other end (nor assume that anyone against you hasnt played with the Betel).

I mean between the Gauss SAW/Orion&Betel, the Orion is a laser. Sure its first shot isnt that accurate compared to the Gauss SAW(or actually it is since the first shot of the Gauss SAW is only for standing still, which is a really bad idea), but its ROF and damage make it a superior weapon to the slow and clunky Gauss SAW.
It is also a rare occasion where a HA runs into a situation with so many enemies it needs more than 50 rounds in one go. Big magazines are great for sustained engagements with plenty of enemies but unless you are in the same room without cover the HEAT mechanic does the same and more. In 95% of the engagements the Betel's HEAT will give it more bullets AND no weakness while reloading. It also encourages better gameplay as bursting is even more rewarded giving it a higher focus. And ofcourse lets not forget that the Betel is based on one of the best LMG performing LMG types in the game (TR and NC equivalents have high performance rates as well, just not the ludicrous one of the Betel).

The VS lucked hard on the Betel. Like the Fortuna its based on a great weapon and it has the awesome HEAT mechanic with enough magazine to not suffer from HEAT downsides much outside of niche engagements.

Most Directives give rewards like a new name, a banner and a cosmetic alteration. Only weapon directives give a literal weapon as a reward.

Making that reward better than the weapons needed to unlock it is a design failure. In an RPG you can reward with a better weapon but not an MMO shooter. For example look at the dead Star Wars Battlefront where they did have more powerful weapons as rewards for playing a long time. Pretty much anyone complained about them and even many people who unlocked them said it wasnt right. In part because the power difference was ridiculous but also because anyone newer would have to fight both the extra experience and the superior weapon of their enemy.

Good design would make the directive reward a challenge. "You grinded your way through all that? Now show off what you have learned with this weapon". Think of it as New Game+. You get a harder challenge to complete for beating the end-game.

Also this isnt an opinion, that is game design. You have an opinion ("I grinded so I need something better in every way") while we have represented design choices.

Orion & betel are 143/750 not 167/750.