Apex/Warzone/Halo have higher TTK than PS2, it's holding the game back to new players!

The very low TTK, is one of the reasons why Planetside 2 fails with new players who are use to higher TTK


@ 2:20, this "vet" claims that Planetside has a very long TTK compared to other shooters.....It doesn't(unless u compare it to Arma/Military shooters lol).....and this is why Planetside is being held back, by archaic thinking like this.....This isn't the 2010's anymore, where every game was a WW2/Modern Shooter with low TTK trying to be the next COD4.


Fact is, the TTK for Planetside 2 is very short compared to modern popular games like Apex/Warzone....Apex has TTK of around 1 second, depending on gun/gear......Warzone, when fully decked out, has higher TTK than Planetside 2...Halo also has a TTK of around 1 second(depending on the weapon)..

Compare this to the .2-.5 TTK in Planetside 2(Not even talking about shotties/One hit kill snipers), is way too low compared to modern games....Way too low.


Not to mention, this is planetside 2 with dozens/hunderds of people shooting you at once, thus the TTK feels way lower than it should because you get hit by multiple people at once.



This is a big problem to new players who aren't use to dying ASAP, out of nowhere, with no warning....and that's happens in Planetside 2 a whole lot because their isn't time to react because the TTK is so low.......Again this is specially bad for new players because they don't know anything, and now they are introduced to super low TTK which isn't what they are accustomed to....So no wonder they quit.




^^^^^ This is what modern gamers play....Look at the high TTK...People like fighting/shooting at eachother in battles, not get killed in .3 seconds to a corner camper like it happens in Planetside 2.


Fact is, Corner Camping/Stalemate doorways are rewarded very much in this game because of the super low TTK...it penalizes gamers who try to push action/advance, thus this is why Modern Gamers Play Apex/Warzone/Halo much more.

Modern Gamers want skill/Aiming to be rewarded which high TTK does.....IMO not only will attract more players and keep them but it will improve the gameplay of planetside 2 much more, because people would be more aggressive thus leading to more action instead of the boring doorway stalemate, where people are afraid to go in because TTK is so low.


It's time to raise TTK, it's time for Planetside 2 to evolve with the times, it's clear that the modern gamer wants higher TTK.......TTK should be between Ps1/Ps2.

inb4 Salty Vets deny the reality that TTK is higher now and that Gamers appreciate higher TTK even tho the most popular games (apex/warzone/halo) are high TTK games.

Yeah, idk about insulting people before anyone has even posted, but overall I really liked the TTK with NWA.

I think a large part of the problem is the network and clientside though. The higher TTK allowed players to react to anything but 1hk weps and very accurate players, whereas now even players with subpar aim can effectively kill you before your game even tells you you're being shot.

the very low ttk also doesn't mesh well with PS2's ancient clientside hit detection,
the notorious example being dying when you made it to cover.
longer TTKs would mean you'd still take shots once you get in cover, but you have more chance of surviving.

might be a whacky idea but they should try doubling health (1000 shield, 1000 health) and halving headshot multiplier.
with a higher headshot damage exception being long range precision weapons which are designed for sniping,
they should have a high enough HS multiplier to OHK, maybe make their head shot multiplier increase over range,
so to OHK you need to be atleast 30m away, because otherwise CQC snipers would just dominate.

Higher TTK does not truly mean more novice friendly.

I once played Command and Conquer: Renegade multiplayer. It's format was somewhat similar to PlanetSide 2 where you have mixed infantry, air, and land. TTK was enormous at low levels and the skilled players just used this to create dance moves to live longer and avoid more shots from inexperienced players. This ultimately allowed skilled players to get a points advantage and snowball horrendously.

500hp...1000hp...2000hp...
None of these things matter in the face of skilled gameplay. All you're doing is making it so that stacked room on a point is even harder to cap or empty. New players will still become frustrated with low KD rates simply because now they have to keep a target for that much longer.

I like the idea, and I also personally think gunplay needs a revamp. But there's a vocal number of people on the forum who are adamant about keeping the game the way it is lol.

I too think the game needs to keep up with modern trends.

How much HP you have does matter....If everybody had 100hp for example, it would be even more of a camping fest game, where position/camping would be even more of an advantageous position than it already is.....People entering doorways for example would be damn with 100hp.....On the flip side if it's 2000hp, you would quickly see how it would benefit players who rushed in more, thus it would change the whole planetside gameplay.


So TTK does matter and does change the gameplay of planetside 2.


Higher TTK does mean more Friendly like gameplay for newer players when it comes to planetside 2 IMO.....Specially in this game with dozens of people shooting you at once, where dying ASAP is super quick and get frustrating, specially for new players who don't know maps.

Low TTK, favors Vets way more...Why? Because Map Awarness + Twitch gameplay would be super advantageous for a Vet, compared to a newer player who would have to worry about both map awarness/twitch gameplay.....Dying quicker is simply a less forgiving experience for a new player......Sure you could claim a corner camper new player can just camp and get a vet, most of the times tho, the vet will just reverse that person even with the low TTK and own that person......Compare this to a Corner Camper Vet, a Corner Camper Vet isn't going to get reversed and will dominate an area simply with map awareness....LOW TTK allows Vets to even have a bigger advantage because of how much Postion/Map awarness/camping matters....and the Vets still have the twitch skill gameplay on top of that.



High TTK on the otherhand doesn't favor Vets as much since Map Awarness/Camping won't matter as much but the twitch gameplay will still matter.......So Newer players won't have to worry so much about map awarness/etc because the gameplay will be more forgiving, since they can actually react to being shot or runaway to cover etc.......Corner Camping for example, for a new player will mean they have to more accurate, ...Rushing in points would be a more forgiving experience as well since the Corner Camp Vet can't just kill u ASAP....For Vets, they won't be as depended on corner camping anymore and will h


I understand that SKILL will always matter, but higher TTK overall would make the game more accessible to new players, specially since they are used to it in modern games....The Frustration of Low KD Rates is because of TTK, not because people don't aim properly thus they miss their kills....Most of the time, these newer players are just getting owned left and right and don't know why they die because of the super low TTK doesn't even allow them to react.



Points will be easier to Cap with Higher TTK, since people will be able to rush in thru a doorway and not be killed asap on the entrance.......The initial doorway entrance attacks will be much more survivable, thus forces will be able to breakthru more easily and there will be way more fighting on the points....It will lead to more action which is much more fun for everybody IMO, specially newer players.

Salty Try hard vets who care about their K/D Ratio/type of gameplay(camping) not being affected.


Higher TTK would lead IMO to alot of Vets camping/map awarness being nerfed, thus Vets who depend on camping would be affected since they would have to aim for longer, which will lead to them dying sometimes....which will affect their K/D Ratio/overall performance....So yeah that's the reason they resist all change IMO lol


Yeah the Modern Trends have been changing alot in FPS, and going higher and higher when it comes to TTK.......Some of these Salty Vets are living in the 2010s, where alot of FPS were COD4 wannabes with super low TTK....Even COD has evolved with Warzone, they had made TTK be higher than a SCI-FI shooter (Planetside) lol

It would help to get rid of situations were all of the damage packets come through at once though, so less frustration from feeling like you're dying instantly no matter what weapon you got shot with.

But yes you're right, to make the game more novice friendly we should half the headshot multiplier,
The sweeties will still win fights, and headshots will still be worthwhile,
But less skilled players will now be able to fight with bodyshots.

This is a good idea.

Actually this thread is wrong. We need the same TTKs as minecraft. If you disagree your a salty vet. Minecraft has a longer TTK than planetside 2, and minecraft is popular. So we need it. You are just trying to make it Apex legends / Warzone because you play those games, and are bad at planetside and minecraft, so you couldnt handle it if we made it planetcraft 2.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...lay-and-lose-money-just-a-warning-soe.187903/

Don't trust OP, he is a heavy crutcher. He is the salty vet that he complains about, he wants to get his crutch shield back.

You should learn to adapt to real planetside instead of crutching on high TTK. New players shouldnt have to shoot 30 bullets to kill a single person. It should be 12 at most

Nope. I don’t care about the gaming industry’s “Bullet Sponge” games you mentioned OP. That’s why I play PS2. You have to actually aim for the head over here.

Its not as simple as all that. A short way to put it:

- a shorter TTK makes it easy for a Newb to get lucky and score a kill on an enemy.
- it makes it easier for a veteran to mow down large scores of players using twitch gameplay.
- It also makes it easier for spray&pray to be effective, and makes it easier for players to kill several people if they get the drop on someone.

- a longer TTK makes it harder for newbies to kill an enemy quickly.
- it makes it easier for veterans to survive a flank attack, as the skill over time becomes more important than the advantage of a flank gives.
- for veterans it becomes harder to mow down multiple players, as the total DPS output of all enemies is more important than the individual skill*
- overall newbies will have it harder in 1v1 and zergs will reign supreme in long TTK games.

Just mindlessly increasing TTK would not instantly improve the game. It would supercharge Zergs, put an emphasis on headshots that the game does not need and it makes it harder for Newbies to join the game. Its ultimately too frustrating for a Newbie to finally get the drop on someone and still lose because the TTK was too long.

Does that mean we should keep the TTK as is? Probably not, it could probably be increased a little. Personally I would have made Nanoweave be incorporated in all infantry without taking a slot (and let it work on the head).


*exception: the difficulty of how hard it is to hit plays a major factor. As already mentioned in Renegade it wasnt just the long TTK, it was also the small hitbox size. Even someone standing almost against you would only fill half your screen. If its harder to hit then skill becomes more important again. Compare to games like COD where someone across the room can still take a large portion of your screen and the difficulty of hitting decreases drastically.

So this all sounds nice and all in theory, how about someone explain it in more detail?

With low TTK you can flank into a room and kill a few people because you surprise them.
You can use tactics and cover to fight multiple enemies, just because they cant carelessly push you when you can cut them down in the open.
"Skill" matters quite a lot, a few good players can fight a larger number of people especially if they have the better position.
You can use hit and run tactics, pick off 1-2 people before running away.
You can pick off high value targets from a group(engineer repping MAX, medics).

There are probably plenty more that is possible to do with a low TTK but would be either much harder or simply impossible to do with a high TTK.


With a high TTK how would you even fight when outnumbered? You are almost guaranteed to lose no matter what, they either push you and gun you down because you lack the DPS to down even one of them when faced with double the return fire and the target you are shooting can just start evading like a mofo while their friend keeps going and you have 0% chance of winning against them since they are at 100% health and can just stand there and trade damage with you until you die.

"But we wont increase the TTK that much! lul!"
Uhuh so how much then? Its either low enough that the game plays mostly like it does now or its high enough that it DOES NOT. There is no magical number that could put TTK short enough to maintain the current type of gameplay while also being long enough that combat does not work like it does now.

You can increase it for sure but its a tiny tweak that in the end does not change how the game plays because if its not then the game changes, simple as that. Overpopping fights are already a meta tactic for taking bases, increasing TTK is a direct super-buff to this as 'durability' pairs up extremely well with 'numbers'.


All of this is before even taking into account the absolutely massive balance changes that the entire game would need, Medics would probably need to be entirely reworked or nerfed into the ground, cant have full health soldiers just raising from the dead if its a bother to put them down again. Engineers and MAXes would similarly need heavy tweaking, HA shield might have to just be removed as a increase in TTK that would matter would just make it a automatic win against any non-HA in most fights when you can react to being shot before the extra shield is even depleted = health advantage = win. C4, mines etc would also need to change or we would see idiotic stuff like people running around with bricks of C4 and killing people because its a lower TTK than the guns they can use... shotguns? snipers? How would they even work? with longer TTK they would either be bananas OP(longer time to aim, longer time to get close) or silly under performing weapons(not enough damage to kill before someone goes behind cover, not enough payoff for going close).



So explain how much you want to increase the TTK, 0.05? 0.1? 0.5? +1 second?
Then explain how that would improve the actual combat when people can already juke around like crazy popping health pots and zooming into cover.. how would a longer TTK just not degenerate into stalemates or "numbers is everything!" fights?

Like what would stop 2-3 people from just running up to someone using cover and simply beating him over the head with "numbers brah"?

Extra credit if you think out some additional scenarios but where someone is using a shotgun and sniper rifle but the shotgun is still kinda slow to kill even up close and the sniper does not kill in a single headshot.



If none of these are valid concerns then you are not increasing the TTK and just fiddling with numbers for little to no gain and I could get behind that idea, because Im not saying the PS2 numbers are perfect as they are but I also do not consider increasing the TTK by 0.1 second to actually change anything. People would still die before they react and behind cover but it would perhaps be a tiiiiiny improvement in some scenarios.

The best way to promote new player friendliness is through improving accessibility of shot variations which was already done in the recent Arsenal update. TR especially received an ammo type that allows more targets than just simply "the head". With a target radius that's much larger, successful attacks will be more common.

At the same time, once again, all you're doing is presenting a moving target that must be tracked for that much longer. If TTK was any longer, there may be concerns that it would take an entire magazine to kill a single enemy unit. Say you hit 100% of your shots, if you're using a TR weapon with high fire rate it still takes a bout seven or eight shots to down someone or roughly 1/4th of the magazine. Now imagine a regular firefight, that same person is shooting under duress (because any stress or focus is essentially duress) at a moving target that is also firing back. Even if, theoretically, the HP was buffed to twice the current pool, it would still take a paper amount of 14 to 16 shots to kill them, or roughly half of that magazine. You would need 50% accuracy at the least to kill your target without needing to reload. Rough numbers, granted, but considering the chaos of a firefight TTK would always feel or be higher than it actually is unless the game devs rework every magazine in the game to rival that of the TR.

And then once again, you're demanding an even higher focus on accuracy because players will need to focus their target down properly or else suffer a reload mid-firefight. This is even less new player friendly.

TTK is not the answer here, target selection on the in-game bodies is.

Yeah, no.


Situational awareness/good flanking should be just as important or at least slightly less important than good aim and recoil/CoF control. Increasing HP without doing anything else would just screw over players who flank, and will empower brain-dead tactics.

High HP favors vets a lot more than new players, as new players will deal a lot less damage to vets in a straight 1v1 (bad aim + slower reaction time) which just means that vets can go on killstreaks vs worse players while taking minimal damage, and if headshot multiplier stays the same you'll have a massive difference in headshots vs non-headshot TTK (If bodyshot TTK was ~1 second, then HS TTK would be ~0.5. Currently it's ~0.5 vs ~0.25) to the point where players who bodyshot will never win 1v1s vs headshots. Now factor in how many sources of HP/shield regen there are in the game and that some of them apply instantly on kill (Assimilate, Regen5, Adrenaline Shield) and how fast medkit use is, you've just made vets overpowered compared to new players who can't use these fast regen tools to good effect.



The "points will be easier to cap with higher TTK", not true. Maybe if you use concussion/flashbang grenades, but healing and ressing players will also have higher HP and much higher TTK and it will be harder to kill players before they get to cover, so it'll be a numbers game even more than it is now.


Not to mention, directly increasing HP limits a lot of classes' multi-kill potential. Or how guns in PS2 are usually harder to hit with than in all the games you're mentioned, especially at long range where you're bound to miss because of CoF and slow bullet velocity, which will make almost every long-range firefight into a 5+ second slog unless you're using snipers.




I'm not against the idea of increasing TTK or changing gunplay, but only increasing HP is a bad idea.
Ideally, we'd get :

1. Actually decent clientside hit detection, this is a big one.
2. Complete gunplay overhaul.
3. Changes to TTK.

You can't just increase TTK and expect stuff to be better, nor is higher TTK a good thing by itself. Increasing TTK slightly to give most players, in most situations a chance to react is a good idea. Increasing TTK similar to PS1's with current mechanics would be horrible.

I'm not going to comment on Apex since TTK is a lot slower than in PS2, especially with the movement, but are we playing the same Halo and Warzone? Halo has guns with ~0.6 TTK and a shotgun that 2-shots, very much like in PS2 with a lot of pistols being the outlier. Warzone has marginally slower TTK but only with long-range firearms, some of the burst fire weapons and SMGs kill insanely fast.

TTK is still lightning fast in CoD MP lobbies, just not in Warzone.

If you want a more relevant example, this game before the HA overshield nerfs and to a lesser extent, before the arsenal update. The meta was to play heavy assault, ADAD and medkit away from bad fights, then headshot with LMGs while getting 445 adrenaline + regular shields from headshot kills. It was much higher TTK, sure, but was absolutely not fun unless you were a heavy.

Increasing TTK across the board would actually make it easier for all team engagements, make it so people can actually defend sunderers before they're marked as getting attacked and taking critical damage and being destroyed at almost the same time from C4 fairies.

ESFs won't be getting sniped out of the air via AV rounds and instead have some hp to possibly get away, flak should probably be scaled to compensate for higher hp though.

Tanks should probably keep the same HP they've always had, and still be able to 1 shot with AP rounds.

Infantry hp across the board would be good as long as snipers could still snipe, without the ability to 1 hit, it'll render snipers useless unless they're semi-auto. But outside of that, it would make them more in-line with current shooters, who have higher hp for the sake of teamplay Ie: Apex legends, Warzone, and Halo.

On another note, I think how the game currently is, the correct buff to nanoweave would be to reduce sniper, shotgun, and maybe vehicle damage to infantry, so there's less of a chance of them getting one-shotted, but have no resistance against all other weapons.

-A shorter TTK makes it easy for a n00b to die, to get unlucky and to makes his K/D ratio go even lower.

In theory yes a noob can get kills easier but that's not the case in this game....The short TTK is mostly being abused by vets, the juicy easy targets are the n00bs.....So the TTK actually makes it worse because of all the times they will die just to get that "last hit"(Which will happen with longer TTK as well).


I don't want it to be easier to destroy multiple n00bs at once....That will still happen with longer TTK, it will just take more skill to pull off......I'm ok with 4 n00bs having an easier time 4 vs 1ing me.


-A Longer TTK makes it harder for a Worse player to beat a better player 1 vs 1 heads up, true but the Better Player won't go undamaged unlike it happens with low TTK in 1 vs 1 heads up matches...Shorter TTK, benefits the superior player in 1 vs 1, because they can easily mow down a n00b without getting damage n go on to a killing spree, harder to that with longer TTK .......But this is a TEAM GAME......A longer TTK makes it easier for n00bs to SURVIVE Planetside, in order to get kills with their TEAM.....So a Longer TTK would actually lead to more kills for the new players since they will survive to shoot people at a more constant pace without dying.

That's the perspective you are forgetting...The n00b dies way too much with this low TTK that although it is true, IF, IF, they get a drop on somebody, they can get the kill....They most likely won't, and that low TTK will be the reason why they die 10 times to get that 1 kill(which will mostly likely be a last hit kill since this is a team game, and not some "getting the drop" on someone kill).

and like I said....Even though that longer TTK in a 1 vs 1 situation might not lead to a kill, atleast that longer TTK will mean that person hit back and did some damage....with low TTK, is easy as hell to destroy someone and take almost no damage...That's much more frustrating to a new player....

I done it several times as HA with an MCG, I easily mow down new players/regular players 1 vs 1, heads up, and they barely do damage to my shields......they have no time to react, I move too quick and I kill them too fast....If it was longer TTK, in that same 1 vs 1 situation, I will still own the new players, but atleast with the longer TTK, he will do some damage to me in that 1 vs 1.....So 1 vs 1's heads up would actually be less frustrating to newer players/less skillful players.

- It makes it easier for n00bs to survive flank attacks as well.....gives them way more survivability....

and guess who is doing the flanks mostly in Planetside?.....Yep Veterans do Flanks.....So if anything this "Flank" nerf would affect Vets.....But the thing it will affect mostly, is not flanking but "Corner Camping".....Vets who love corner camping because they have good map awareness, won't easily mow down unexpected n00bs with bad map awareness.N00bs will actually have time to react....Thus it will help n00bs fight veterans.


-That's ok that it's harder to mow down people....It's already way too easy to do....This is a TEAM game, is easy to dominate in this game....I'm ok for multiple n00bs to have an easier time against me .....It will just take more skill to go on killstreaks, and Im ok with that.

-Overall Planetside is not a 1 vs 1 game....and no, it's already easy for a Vet to destroy a n00b 1 on 1, and get ZERO DAMAGE, then go on a killstreak......With longer TTK, the n00b in a 1 vs 1 situation will atleast get some hits on the vet and do some DAMAGE.....

ZERGS reign supreme now with this low TTK, makes it easier to camp a spawn point, since you can kill people ASAP, with longer TTK, people will atleast be able to push out against ZERGS.

Ultimately the low TTK makes it harder for newbies on all fronts IMO.


As for how long I think TTK should be....I agree with you, nanoweave should be incorporated by default...and +450 health or +450 Shield....So basically everybody would have HA with nanoweave TTK, which I think it's a sweet spot and nothing to different from what we are use to....I think this would add enough survivability so new players can react to corner campers/vets, and this TTK is short enough that they can still get the drop on someone.

Maybe later on they can experiment with longer TTK...but im ok with HA with nano being the standard TTK

People who type things like this don't think things through, its anathema to them. He don't consider that Apex and Warzone are usually squad vs squad (4v4 or less) engagements where everything is in stake with 1 life, vs an up to 300v300v300 players in a single fight game, where you die all the time. lets massively slow down the pacing of the game and buff zerging.

Lets also not forget that apex has strong movement that lets you leverage it over worse players, and warzone at the very least has a slide. PS2 has no movement outplay in it. Way to dull down your game to bullet sponging

With low TTK, you will die as soon as you enter the doorway....So it will add survivability to entering a room....

With High TTK if you flank someone undetected, you can still kill mow down people, you just need better accuracy to pull it off.....Skill to win.

- you will still be able to use tactics with higher TTK.....In fact, way more tactics since people will have time to react, thus fights will take longer....You will still be able to fight multiple opponents, it will just take more skill.

-Yes skill matters...."the better position", you mean the better camping spot so they can get unsuspected n00bs....Camping will still work, it will just be a tad bit harder for camping vets to pull off things.....The worse players will have time to react, and that's ok.

-Hit and run tactics would still work/picking people off will still work....In fact in certain scenarios, that survivability would be great for hit and run tactics.


Fact: Longer TTK will make it easier to a capture POINT that's being camped on when you're outnumbered.....

Right now the short TTK means that doorway camping/corner camping around a capture point = close to insta kill for the person who goes in....It's pretty hard to deal with right now......With Longer TTK I can atleast make it thru the doorway and fight some of these people/kill them with superior skill since Corner Campers would have to aim at a moving target.

That's the thing, Corner Campers/Doorway Campers would have to keep aim at the people rushing in....So a person with superior aiming skill will take them on easier with Longer TTK, than with shorter TTK.


The TTK I want is HA(with shield) with Nano...So +450 health or shield for the regular class + nano weave......That's not a huge TTK increase IMO and we are already use to it.....Perhaps we should increase it a bit more but that's the change I want right now, and the one that makes the most sense.

HA TTK with nano weave didn't destroy the game, it won't destroy the game if everybody had that TTK.

It's the opposite, the LOW TTK makes it easier for ZERGs to campdown Doorways/spawn points because they kill people ASAP....It's harder to defend when you die ASAP because of LOW TTK.....Most skilled players even when out numbered would have an easier time to push in against ZERGS camping doorways/spawn points!


Stalemates?....Stalemates are a problem right now because of LOW TTK, you can't push a Doorway or anything because a ZERG camping a doorway/capture point will kill you ASAP......with Higher TTK people won't die ASAP when going thru doorway or to capture points, thus they can easier push against the campers which will end stalemates quicker.

So higher TTK is actually a worse thing for ZERG camping doorway stalemates since people would actually be able to push against them.....Thus it will lead to more action/fun.