[Suggestion] Definitely need ESF Medium tanks.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AntDX316, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. AntDX316

    Definitely need ESF Medium tanks.

    Pretty much they can be how the ESF Basilisks are just more powerful and louder.
  2. Demigan

    You mean ES (Empire Specific)?
    ESF means Empire Specific Fighter. You are asking for a flying empire-specific medium tank.

    What exactly would be the function of this medium tank over the Lightning?
    Wouldn't it be easier to introduce ES guns for the Lightning?
    • Up x 1
  3. Pikachu

    Medium tank = main battle tank = empire specific tank = vanguard/prowler/magrider.
    • Up x 3
  4. Mechwolf

    I'm pretty sure he's talking about ES guns for lightnings. The devs were talking about that before, they're probably under development right now.
  5. MichaelMoen

    Lightnings are Light Tanks. Then again maybe the OP actually meant a new class of Tank between the Lightning and the MBT? Either way, more Empire Specific stuff would be a good thing.

    I'd rather have an entire new turret to go with the ES main gun as well, but I guess that's asking too much.
  6. Demigan

    Its the horrible world of cloudy definitions

    For the roles that Lightnings play they could easily be classified as MBT's. Just like the Patton Tank or T62 are still MBT's despite larger tanks existing.

    Medium tanks are technically tanks with enough armor to stand up to common AFV weapons (20 to 40mm) and enough firepower to destroy them. They are also cheaper and easier to obtain and maintain, and the smaller gun size means more shots can be fired in the same time period.
    That describes the Lightning very well as well.

    That makes it very hard to create a medium tank that does not either step on the Lightning's capabilities or the MBT's. Just what would it cost? How much damage does it do? Would it essentially be an MBT without a topgun? The Lightning already out-DPS's the Magrider and Vanguard right? So the Medium Tank would have to whoop so much a s s it becomes the best tank!

    What is missing is the AFV's (other than straight up tanks). IFV's that carry infantry into battle (with support modules to encourage infantry to stick close) and a main gun meant to support nearby allies. A viper/Saron hybrid meant to kill infantry and lightly armored vehicles/aircraft with a few well placed shots would fit the bill nicely.
    • Up x 1
  7. TR5L4Y3R



    ... i mean ANTs could work as IFV, they have a bit protection, they have turrets that can offer firesupport ...
    the deliverer module allows spawning while deployed, squads can spawn directly to it ...
    the ANT really is only missing a couple ES vehicle turretoptions ..
  8. Demigan

    So why doesnt it work as an IFV? Because all the incentives are missing. Just like the Sunderer could potentially do it but you may see it once in a blue moon (if at all). Also the Harasser was designed as a 3-man transport but never really used for that purpose.

    It has to overspecialize and only really carry Heavies with rocketlaunchers out, drive up to vehicles, shout "SURPRISE!" and have them pile out. Once out the HA's are just as vulnerable as before and the driver pretty much has to enter the gunturret or exit as well since its almost always better as a static cover than a moving one. But you are boned if there's another tank or infantry near your target(s). Worse is that the Sunderer can pretty much do the same and better in some ways and its also never used


    The driver needs to be able to use a gun that is more useful than a Basilisk and/or have access to gadgets and utilities to help protect itself and the infantry it disgorges.
    The infantry need to be better of in the neighbourhood of the ANT. This can be done by offering an overshield (controlled by the driver for example) to all allies within a certain range. Or creating a 1-way shield barrier to absorb damage while your own forces fire through. Or the ANT debuffing its targets to give infantry a better shot or reduce the chance of them getting hit and killed.
    You can also offer proximity-only weapons and gadgets. Letting the infantry acquire weapons and gadgets from the ANT which are powered by the ANT's internal systems (and potentially as an ADDITION cortium). Preferably the infantry would be able to buy this while inside the ANT, like by opening the vehicle screen while being a passenger you get to buy its stuff.
    The stuff in question can be deployables like shields, hardlight barriers, upgraded/unique powerful weapons and temporary buffs. They would need to be able to prepare for a variety of targets and scenario's, like attacking infantry, tanks or aircraft but also the difference between slowly driving/walking up to an enemy line while laying down fire.
    Best yet: all the gadgets and weapons can share the same ANT powersource, which means that you can either just fire off everything and deplete the energy you have quickly or for more coordinated players you can make strategies on who uses what and how energy is conserved or used among the group.

    Which only goes to show how much PS2 is missing to make the most basic of combined arms tactics in real life worth using.
    • Up x 1
  9. AntDX316


    Empire-Specific Fighting Tanks

    There should also be a new Medium/Heavy tank where its a common pool MLRS that isn't too OP. Either it cost nanites or outfit resources. Maybe a 10-30 second reload time to make it balanced? Has to be deployed and turret manned.
  10. TR5L4Y3R


    MRLS as in missile arillery? ... nope, lets NOT do that ... it would be enough to just add the missilesystems ESFs and valkeries use to current vehicles use as turret option ..

    your suggestion doesn´t explain WHY exactly you would want a new "fighting" tank ...
    like what is that suppesed to be? a tankhunter? ... in that case we already have plenty of antitank/antivehicle options ... at best the lightning could get its variants of ES specific AP mainturrets ... other than that i don´t see the need for an extra tankvehicle ..
  11. Demigan

    The easiest way to achieve that would be putting ES stuff on the Lightning rather than designing 3 new ES vehicles. Especially since it would almost by default step on both the Lightning's job and the MBT. You could easily scale up the models of weapons like the Saron and alter their stats a bit to fit the Lightning's cost and utility (and to prevent a Vulcan Lightning from absolutely dominating everything). A more daring idea would be to allow hull conversions to look more like their MBT counterparts. A hovering Lightning for the VS for example, although that would be blatantly OP without some nerfs to speed and agility.
    The only other option would be an honest to god IFV designed for combined arms.

    Artillery can only be balanced if the one firing it has to have a direct LOS of the target, and the firing is easily spotted by those being fired upon. Otherwise you have something like construction: it costs so much that if you were to give a proper reward it would be OP in the extreme.
    Something like how a Flail does it, only with a better designed targeting device. You deploy the artillery piece, buy the targeter, move to the location and while the enemy might not be able to shoot the artillery they can totally shoot you.
    The targeting device should be something like Unreal's Ion Painter. Hold a visible laser still (!) on a target/the ground for a moment and it will fire. The opponents can see the laser and retaliate. It also means that after firing the player could still guide the munitions to its target if the munitions allow for that.
  12. TR5L4Y3R



    let´s not add debuffs .. i am all for slight resistence buffs but not for nerfing infantry that try to defend aggainst such a push when the current state of the game favors aggresion already ..

    we also should be careful to not add another vehicle that just overlapps with a role of a different vehicle ...

    i don´t disaggree with the idea of a infantrysupportvehicle .. though imo we already have them ..

    if however one specialized vehicle needs to be there then i think said vehicle can not be another spawnpoint vehicle

    it should be (taking some of your suggestions) lets say a b astard between an mbt (light maingun for the driver but ONLY the maingun imho and heavy armor) and the ANT/sunderer (for the greater transport capability in addition with MAX slots and defensiv options) the vehicle imo could have a stealthfield, its version of a 360° rampartshield were the vehicle takes damage ..
    vehicle/aircraft/infantry - radar, ... it could indeed have a infantryterminal when deployed but not a spawnpoint to not overlap with the sunderer ...

    so in other words it could be a pure logistics vehicle not limited by no-deployzones, like the ANT and sunderer
    imo

    adding vehicleaccquired consumeables like you describe for the ANT is a bit too complex when it is already heavily designed for PMB construction ... .. at least for the moment i´d go for something easier to design with the possiblity to expand upon afterwards if such vehicleaquired cosumeables would be still neccesary ... ... then again we could just expand the consumable options of the sunderer/galaxy and maybe infantryterminals gained with nanites ...
  13. AntDX316

    There is a real BTR void that needs to be filled. Watching some of the Russian BTRs in Ukraine, using BTRs in this game called Squad is awesome. Battlefield has some of those tanks too. They aren't like MBTs because they don't do heavy damage in 1 shot but they are more powerful the ES-Basilisks like the NC one which is cool but isn't loud and big enough. Just turning all the ES-Basilisk into something more powerful and louder would be what to have.
  14. AntDX316


    An M2A2 style tank, a BTR tank, is lacking in the game.


    The tanks in the game need to be louder imo like deafening. Same with the airstrikes for more realism. To balance things out to not make it scary, like the cortium bomb going off instead of it being like a terrifying nuke probably has to be kept to prevent it giving people nightmares.

    I like the game because it has a comical look to it. The way characters fall when they die. When the camera instant snaps to who the killer was. The voice macro taunting and word replacement in chat when something vulgar is said with profanity filter on are what makes the game more awesome on top of it being already awesome. If it did the 300 people on 1 cont and nothing else with 2 teams and infantry only, it would be one of my favorite games but it does so much more. More can definitely be done and not throw off the balance too much. Complacency doesn't have to happen.
  15. AntDX316

    This is another good example video of the IFV coolness.

    Notice around 0:28 on.


    In a way to make things "more balanced".
    -MBTs should have higher-resistance to IFV fire
    -MBTs should do bonus damage to IFVs
    -IFVs should have 4500HP
    -IFVs should only have one gun
    -IFV should have newly designed turrets to select from
    -IFVs should be costly, probably 400 Nanites to prevent excessive respawning
    -IFVs should seat 6 aside from the driver and gunner
    -IFVs should have 6 or more wheels, probably 8

    It costing 400 nanites would be balanced because it can die fast but is powerful enough and not too OP to be worth using.

    Probably have like 50 rounds but take a while to reload?

    The fire rate shouldn't be too long or too fast, that video shows how it should look like.
  16. LodeTria

    You will never be allowed Infantry Fighting Vehicles in this game. Infantry mains would cry until it's nerfed into the void.
    Stop suggesting it.
  17. TR5L4Y3R


    give infantry propper AV options across the board and i see little problem to add a infantrysupportvehicle ...
    • Up x 1
  18. Demigan

    I think you misunderstand. An infantry fighting vehicle fights WITH infantry. Infantry should mainly love this.

    Also the reason why infantry would ask for nerfs is because infantry is woefully incapable of really countering vehicles. The best weapon they have is a short-ranged throwable explosive that takes time to set both charges and can only be realistically be used against vehicles that do not notice you until its too late.

    PS2 severely needs better and more varied infantry AV, I've suggested before to let nanites kill nanites through a large variety of nanite-costing equipment, both lethal and non-lethal.

    Besides that, having vehicles that actively promote combined arms and help infantry fight off their enemies while potentially supporting vehicles? That is what we need!
    Also a vehicle that doesnt rely on AOE for its anti-infantry capabilities? I mean infantry should be applauding that idea right? Maybe not in the current environment where infantry are beaten bloody in every engagement even against vehicles and aircraft that have the wrong loadout for fighting infantry but in general terms its good.


    Lastly: its not as if drivers and pilots dont complain about every little thing that may ever so slightly challenge them. Trying to make it seem like infantry is the only side that does it is wrong.
    • Up x 1
  19. AntDX316

    Exactly, it's not like they are OP. A bunch of heavies appearing over the mountain and any vehicle has no chance of surviving nearly alone.
  20. LodeTria

    You mean like the kobalt? We just nerfed that to be worse than an LMG.
    Don't try pretending infantry will ever put up with anti infantry guns, no matter how much or little AoE it has at all.