How do you do it? Since theirs no outfit pop limit. Then your Persuasion level is 100 right? To get members of the largest oufit, to leave & join your newer outfit. Persuasion: 100? How do I lvl this unofficial skill? I suppose I write this as the last outfit based thread, ended with people saying " just get gud leadership ". While I replied with " It's not about leadership, they just spam invited for members, first. " So lets pretend I was already the best leader on the server. Lets pretend. I believe I am. tho that doesn't matter. Just pretend. So if I am the best leader on the server, yet I have a solo outfit. & Theirs nobody left to recruit, besides a handful of low lvls who are just testing the game. Thus persuasion. Persuasion is the only truth to all of this. So the fake rules of this thread is to not reply with " have good leadership ". Were pretending I'm already the best leader on the server, for the sake of this theory. Yet I have a solo outfit as I do. So the only solution or option is getting them to quit their outfit with words. So tell me genius, how do you do it? Get them to quit. I mean if they already have a outfit, why would they view the outfit forum page either. They won't. So it's not about recruiting outfitless members when their is no outfit pop size limit. No. < It's about getting players, somehow, to leave their zerg outfit. As the only means to recruit. My guess is none of you have done this. Nobody has successfully done this very well. It's the only solution available for a late stage vet to recruit or gain members. Remember the zerg outfit gained its empire by spam invites during early years. Tho that's not a option anymore for a future vet who owns a solo outfit. How to get them to leave? Inspiration? Already have inspiration, wasn't good enough. At the very least admit its x100 times tougher to recruit these days & theirs experiment dev solutions to this. P.s. I don't need to recruit right now. Taking a break. Still persuading others even if popular, is near impossible. This is partially a reply thread to this: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/oversized-outfits.258856/
This would be my way of solving it....Or at least a start. What's the biggest strength of zergs? Spamming vehicles in mass and moving in 1 direction. Taking this away would dissolve zerg outfits. This can be done with Outfit Assets. When you make the logistic vehicles, tanks, aircraft outfit outfit assets (instead of how it is now, individual) there will need to be a limit. A tech tree design can be added for the outfit leaders to choose the purpose of the outfit, whether it should be: Mechanized, motorized, tank, airborn....(tech tree, discounting vehicles, adding more space in warehouse storage) Ultimately there needs to be coordination, leadership and strategy, causing zerg outfits to be a complete mess, weak due to the limit in special assets and the players will leave by themselves to search for a better outfits that best suits them. ____ Also off topic but speaking of specialization, this is what the new players need as well. They need to stick to a role, specialize in what they like and work their way up with it. They can't just switch whenever they feel like it at the beginning. I don't understand what the hell are the devs doing. Why are they making certs easier to gain, why are they adding more types of currencies, why are they adding hundreds of items, complicating the user interface with these useless and annoying missions...All they are doing is ruining the game's performance and making it more complicating, than it ever was for a new player. Can somebody explain?
Vehicle Spam on demand. Get rid of that feature and only have vehicles pulled from the Warpgate. That right there will clip the Zergs wings. Let the vehicles suffer attrition like everyone else.
You think you are the best leader on the server? The fact that you felt the need to make this thread proves that you aren't. Having an outfit is about players who enjoy playing together easily finding each other. If people enjoy playing with you then they will join your outfit. It also isn't a one man show, you need multiple regular leaders so that you can have a regular schedule in game even if people have to miss nights due to real life things. Beyond that, have a positive attitude, not a negative one. Don't directly ask people to leave the outfit they're in, that's weird. Don't be weird. Instead, while running a recruitment public squad/platoon, frequently mention that your outfit exists, is recruiting, who you're looking to have join it, and what's good about your outfit. Yes, the implication that you are asking for people to leave the outfit they are already in is inferred, but leave it at that, don't directly say it. Next, be patient. Understand that building a name for yourself so that people know who you are and want to play in your outfit takes time. Persevere through that time and don't get frustrated with a lack of instant gratification. And, the point I left until last because if there is one point you need to remember it's this one: ***DON'T MAKE IT ALL ABOUT YOU!***IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU, IT'S ABOUT THE PLAYERS WHO FOLLOW YOU ENJOYING THE GAMING EXPERIENCE YOUR LEADERSHIP BROUGHT THEM! Seriously, in the many threads you've made complaining that The Wild Cards "steal" "your friends" it's always about you and the people in this game somehow owing you something for some reason. That right there is the beginning of the feedback loop that leads you to make threads like this one over and over again. Nobody owes you anything. If you want something, earn it. The players of this game don't owe you a squad. The other outfits don't owe you any of the people who joined them. The dev team don't owe you rules which would force players out of other outfits. Even if the dev team gave you the rule changes you ask for you would end up complaining about the 2 or 3 "zerg fits" who won't give you members. How do I know this? Because I played with The Wild Cards for a year, and I sometimes notice players who were Wild Cards when I was now playing with other outfits. This proves that players are willing to leave The Wild Cards, just not for your outfit. Until you accept where the problem lies you will never be able to solve it. Your problem lies neither with The Wild Cards nor with the outfit system. Please stop [poop] posting.
The better question is to ask yourself "Why are they in their outfit?" Some "zerg" outfits aren't there because of the masses, but rather a reflection of good in, and out of game leadership. People come and go... they stick around for various reasons, but the key is understanding what kind of outfit you want to run? Larger outfits like "The Wild Cards," are great for community -- which is why many people stick around. Some players are great, others, not so much -- but that does not matter. We have great people that are willing to mentor, lead, teach, train all things Planet Side, among many other games and situations. I've personally mentored people in real life to help professionalize their resume and vector their career, and personally also seen our officers helping those in need and getting mental health resources, running morale building events, and meeting in real life. That's community. We celebrate real world (and in game) wins, grieve with other outfits/ faction losses, and express that we are more than anonymous players in a closed dark ecosystem. When people leave, it's for life, or maybe something else they want out of the game or outfit, but never have we held it against them. That's life. I think this is your 2nd or 3rd post on this topic... The first time was to ban large outfits, the other was a similar post on preventing large groups.... stay away from those forced methods (they'd never happen to begin with, but still...it's the mentality of "If I can't... then no one can...") Feel free to reach out to me, and we will see how to best mentor you to become the best Outfit Leader you can be.
This is my 2nd post on the topic. Only posted this after reading someones rant thread about large outfits. Also this threads theme is " Persuasion ". The 1st thread got debated about " leadership ". The 1st thread asked for outfit pop limit. This 2nd thread is talking about how to persuade other members. As its the only effective method to recruit these days. I stated it didn't matter if I'm seen as best leader or not, it was a pretend theory. Tho I should have worded it differently. So that people wouldn't have a chance to respond on a personal level towards me. So I'll rewrite this: " IF someone is the best leader on the server rightnow as a vet. " That person not being me, but a hypothetical vet who's the best leader on the server. This elite vet who's not me & is the best leader on the server. This person; in theory owns a solo outfit, lets say. So how does this elite leader vet, who doesn't have members, how does he recruit? So please enlighten me how that is a " selfish request ". When it benefits every single vet who wants to recruit during this late stage era of PS2. I know of other leaders who have smaller sized outfits. We have HolyYeetMan who runs around as a max with a militia of medics teamates = "G1 Gaming" outfit. We have HizokaRed who does pub vehicle roaming platoons = " helo " outfit. & Draig the leader or " Pink " outfit. So all three of those outfits gain more members, with this proposition & my own outfit RicosRoughnecks. That benefits 4 outfits. So it doesn't just benefit me only, it benefits many others. That's not including other factions who have solo or medium sized outfits. Or other servers, who this also helps. Plus this helps every single person who is making a thread about how lame zerg outfits are. Which is like 3 threads recently. & Probably 100 threads these past few years. Of how lame zerg outfits are. So how is this a issue for just me? Not to mention if WoW Classic had no pop limit, every person would have thrown a fit. No matter what size the server was. People who play moderately or medium amounts of time, won't leave their zergfit outfit. For any reason, not even the smartest reason. It would need dev implementation. To get them to leave. Who's to say they stay for leadership or friends? What if they stay just to stay? You ever see VS farm nasons tunnels or VS farm a tower base, while farming the tunnels or stairs / instead of going to the points? So VS loses the base, since they don't want to budge from tunnels or stairs. So obviously lots of people have the gameplay style of " I'm not budging, since I'm too lazy to or the farm is already here, why move ". If people don't budge without some leader motivating them to move, for winning the alert. I bet its the same for whether or not to stay in a outift. They won't budge, unless the UI makes them leave. They are settled, even if they know their zergfit is gonna lamely make them ghostcap for hours upon hours. So some leaders may OS once awhile. No I don't need to lead a zerg outfit myself, so I don't need " member " from the top 4 outfits. Tho right now their is no top 4, theirs just top 1. Not even a top 2 outfits, only 1. Wildcards has 2 platoons full on weekends & no prime leader either, its like a new guy leading everytime. Their platoons leads often are half my rank / amatuers. Then their always farming tech plants only, that's what they do 90% of the time. They hold a tech, then they redeploy for the whole hours, till I boringly win a 150 cert alert. Woopdeedoo. How about making that 90 minutes more action packed instead of just winning alerts or holding techs? Oh well. How do you persuade others? " Hey leave your ghostcapping zerg outfit, I have helped vs win tons of alerts solo, main beacon map dropper for years, will bring you to the bigger battles, & will perform more class combos. Just need outfit pop. So leave your zergfit. Ez. Kudos. " Telling them that, won't earn 1 member. True as it is. So simply being inspirational, helpful for years, motivational, more map aware, or having fun strats that go beyond simple outfit resource holds. None of that helps. I don't need to recruit, I could wait 6 months to try again tbh. I'm fine with my second made solo outfit. Fine just playing solo. So this is def not personal. It's just mehhh. Mehhhhhh. Mehhh watching the zerg outfit after all these years. Deff mehh trying to recruit. Mehhh having the best map skills for VS & not having troops. Even if theirs no zergfit, its still gonna take persuasion to gain members with 4 fair sized outfits. Doubt anyone leaves zergfits, by just words alone. I haven't listed 20 reasons for why I'd be a better leader than zergfits, I would, tho this isn't about me. It's about recruiting in general. P.s. I solo outfit farm 4 collosuses just fine. & I have my own solo Bastion ready. So I def don't need members for outfit resources. Also able to motivate a alert win with just /region chat & shield beacons. Or pubs. So don't need members for alert wins either. Just for class plays.
Fantastic! How many of these do you feel need to happen before you feel like there is some sort of resolution? And what would realistically bring the issue to resolution that you are satisfied with? What is your end goal? So the goal is to persuade people to join your outfit. Got it. The best way is to not trash other outfits or complain about them, especially when they're offering you help to become a better leader. *snake eyes* Starts by running Squads, Platoons, and genuinely leading. Leadership is an art, and much like with any art -- the more you practice it, the better you get. There's the science of leadership, such as psychology, behaviors, "do's and don'ts"... etc... that help, but they're more for foundational knowledge and not practical skills. Which is why mentorship is so vital to the development of people. Start by learning a few things, spread your wings, and remember it is never about you. Great! When they run, ask to be their squad leader, take mental notes on what works and what doesn't. What proposition? All a matter of perspective. There are ways to counter zergs and win. Vanilla WoW Guilds Definitely had player limits (350 if I recall.. was a GM for several, then they increased it to 1000 eventually). This is key --- and think that it's a distinction you're overlooking. Critically think why people are in large outfits. Large outfits to you are "zerg" outfits, which isn't true at all. Since your usuage of zerg means "a lot of members," I'd like you to think about "What makes a zerg?" "What are the traits of a zerg?" "How do zergs behave?" Why do I feel this is important? Because the sooner you understand what motivates people to "zerg" or join zerg outfits, the faster you and understand their ambitions or desire to be in one. It'll also help you delineate a true zerg outfit from a "large/ well organized outfit," as well... which will also help you understand how to organize and run your own outfit. *red flag* They will. You'll learn too, why. Then, so be it. It is an honest challenge to get people to break from the frenzy, focus on the objectives, and simply listen or be involved in the strategy. True. That's human nature. Leadership is the art of influence. Some days are better than others, and it's even more difficult in a video game with a wide variety of individual needs, playstyles, communication preferences, and even communication challenges. This is concerning, that you speak so despairingly of large outfits, and likely one of the many reasons it's difficult for people to stay with you. It's worth noting -- people are attracted to positivity. There's enough negativity in the real world, people avoid it where we spend recreational time relaxing. I'm a Wild Card, and much like how I offer to mentor you, by virtue of this thread to put a thoughtful response that hopefully finds a way to help you, but also in-game, we make it a point to always give new people the opportunity to lead platoons, squads, etc... and hold frequent leadership mentorship workshops to teach people. Now, why is this important, you may ask? Recruitment is only ONE piece of the organizational leadership responsibilities. Sure, it's great you get people in the door, but without developing them, investing time, effort, blood into their success -- you will NEVER succeed as an organization. This is a key trait among all of the successful outfits. People see that you genuinely wish for their success in the game, in other games, and in life and respond to it by sticking around. And if we're lucky, they might do the same for other people. That is vital in understanding human behavior and some aspect of the art of leadership. You win some, you lose some. Can't win them all. This is precisely what I was referencing above. From this statement, you'd attract players that may only want to win. But what happens when they don't win?.. They leave. Understanding what motivates people is key to retention and recruitment. Reflect on some of the things I, and many others, have wrote. That will help. *red flag*
For frame of reference, the biggest NC Outfit on Miller is a toxic hellscape who do things like coordinated mass-reporting for no discernible reason (on Stream, at that, and noone specified anything like "look, found a cheater", no, just "yo, let's all report this person") and apparently intentionally roadkilling friendlies, they habitually display the collective intellectual capacity of a rotten banana and tank alerts more often than they positively contribute by single-mindedly pushing too far and then folding like a wet blanket or alternatively holding a strategically worthless installation for hours. Their leader even refuses to use any kind of accepted grammar in favour of being really edgy (read: cringy and hard to read). It is a source of great bafflement to most other outfits as to how they are still around.
I think its quite simple, just take a look at games like Eve online and all the variations of Goons/Goonswarm that exists in 'all' games like that. Some people just derive immense pleasure from being able to let loose their inner dirt bag and take out all their frustration and disappointment in life on others. As long as they can be anonymous on the internet ofc. As a outsider from that type of culture I cant say for sure what drives them but I can imagine being seen as the "Bad" guys is one of them, that includes being such "Bad" boys that its cool to roadkill people on purpose or in other ways like reporting them just because they can. Basically a edgy and irate teenager that never left the rebellious phase of their lives "Come at me brah! come at me!" when backed up by half a dozen of their friends type of deal. ----------------------------------------------- And to be on topic, you dont persuade anyone to join your outfit, ever. I have some solo outfits and I have never attempted to recruit anyone but I have still had people ask if they can join my outfit, without me saying a word aside from very basic stuff like needing to get ammo or going to some other spot on the map. I deny them because its a solo outfit and my interest in PS2 comes and goes with months(even year) long breaks so I dont want to recruit them to what might be a 'dead' outfit in 1-2 days until I return several weeks later. Similar reason why I havent joined an outfit. The magic trick I used was simply playing with them, usually its some random I picked up to gun for me or someone that joins my squad when I have built a PMB with something like "Free Ground/Air vehicles - Player Base" as the squad name and from there either team up with vehicles or as a driver/pilot/gunner. Just have to help people have fun and if they enjoy their time its likely they will ask to join if they see you are part of a outfit. Friend requests are also quite common. If you actually have some decent leadership on top of that I doubt it would be hard to get a outfit going from scratch. Large outfits has that as a weakness in holding their members, there are a lot of them so its hard to impossible to cater to everyone. Someone that thinks that flying/gunning is the most fun part of the game is likely to leave a large outfit for a smaller one if they find one that provides a better chance of getting their type of gameplay. If the goal is to have a "tryharding for the win" outfit you are probably worse off since that type of player is likely already in a smaller to mid sized outfit doing the same, collecting skilled players with a drive to win and the better option is probably to simply join one yourself and get to lead their squad/platoon that way instead of insisting on being the outfit leader.
I'm sorry you experienced this toxicity first hand, and I understand that it is more common than we'd like to think. Thankfully, there are good groups of people on all servers, all factions, that have goodness and positive traits. Seek them out, enjoy this time in the game. I would recommend to screen capture and report these instances via email. Please be empowered and encouraged in being part of the solution and weeding out these people. Hopefully, over time, their behavior will become more civil and amenable to a group/ team environment. Hopefully they'll learn how to behave in a more collaborative and constructive way, if not, they can take a time out and reflect. When they're ready and the game allows, they'll be more than welcome to join us once again.
Fortunately I did not experience it firsthand, but I've heard enough about it. And seen the stream, someone else showed it to me as an example of their outrageous behaviour. Obviously I reported it right away, this is inacceptible.
Alright, let an old, salty, retired vet give you some advice. There was a motto the old Phoenix Battalion outfit had "Leadership by Example." What you did spoke volumes more than what you say. The reason why PHX invited en masse was three-fold; Increase overall numbers of players who want to participate (there were a number of players who just wanted a large outfit to play with for good fights), find the diamonds in the rough among those players who want to be in leadership roles, and allow the outfit to fight in large-scale operations completely independent of other NC outfits. This third bit was a controversy a number of control freaks over the years actively tried to subvert. In fact, their viciousness in their crusade rivaled or even put to shame a number of the more psychotic players and alliances I saw in my years of playing EVE online (which is really impressive to beat a game known for backstabs and unethical players). The end result created an outfit with a large enough CO/NCO pool to allow the unit to operate largely on its own without upper leadership at the helm 24/7. That didn't happen overnight. It took many months of actively recruiting, playing, and training new members to reach that point, at which such time the old salty vets can take a much-needed break from the leadership role until the inevitable mutiny occurs, then it's back to outfit building again. Even if the goal is a smaller, more specialized outfit, recruiting from members of the squad or platoon you're leading remains an excellent way to seek out new outfit members as they can see your leadership style and you can see their skill levels in action and both parties can then decide from there if the business relationship will be a benefit for them. If you can't provide the content they want, then those players will look elsewhere. This was how I recruited. I didn't go into other outfit squads or just spammed messages in yell chat. I went and played the game. I was always improving my own leadership skills while taking advantage of lulls in the battle to recruit from any outfit-less members of my squad or platoon. They get to see my leadership skills well enough over the course of 30 minutes or an hour to decide if they will tolerate me or not. If they're not interested and just tagging along for the ride, that's fine, so long as they can follow commands to the best of their abilities. Actively trying to poach players from other outfits by infiltrating said outfits or their platoons and attempting to recruit from there is bad for business. It can get you new members but you run the risk of alienating yourself from said outfit or the faction/server at large if the word gets out. I know I recruited players from other outfits using said method I described above. Personally, I didn't keep track because I didn't care if they came from another outfit or if they were a fresh recruit right off the boat. They were looking for a good time and towards the end of my game time I made it a point to focus on setting up good battles or good moments for everyone in the platoon to enjoy more than simply winning. A shame Daybreak took the route of chasing the COD crowd. They did a damn good job chasing away players like myself.
The best way I have found is to capture crowded bases by yourself while those larger outfits are present. That is hard to do, but with some prayer and determination, it can definitely be done. Around your second or third base people start to take notice and send requests to be friends and join. Being a part of a small tight and capable group is very appealing to a lot of people; especially if they are seeing that groups name pasted on the building. It feels exclusive. One of the worst feeling in the world is to be a part of a Outfit and the founder does not play with your, or even know you exist. I am going to warn you now though; floods of invitations is not always a good thing. You have a looooot of team jumpers out there, and they have absolutely no problem joining you just to use up all of your stuff. Last year an argument broke out over Gunudine's Air-waves, someone apparently joined used up all of the teams materials and then left. The leader of the Outfit was furious, and rightfully so. Finding STABLE players is the hard part. Thanks to how often they nerf the game, while I still have most of the people I opened my Outfits to, very, VERY few people are still active on ANY of my teams. I could go through and weed out those players, but them leaving was not their fault. They would still be playing if the game did not now feel as though it were made for children. Many just want to play in peace... If you can offer a good time in the form of a hands off approach all the better. I have never spoken to anyone in game, but when I run a squad, I keep my map up to date on where I would like attacks and defense. People LOVE that. Screaming over the waves for people to do things and getting mad when they do not is the stuff of large Outfits. I have a lot of requests but I only accept those who I get a chance to play with regularly. We have to be friends first before we become family.
