Warpgating other factions > is more fun than winning alerts. Warpgating should give benefits.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AuricStarSand, Mar 14, 2022.

  1. AuricStarSand

    I mean the title speak for itself. I'm playing right now. Were about to hit Amerish Arx Reserve. Even tho the fun part is warpgating the others. Warpgating is a siege mode. I say build trenches alone the warpgates. Warpgates desperately need trenches for infantry all over for miles. So that its not just a tank ditch dug in effort. Where most of VS runs from that endgame anyways. That is to say, once they get to the warpgate they don't know how to compete with prowlers or vanguards. So all is lost. The progress of a path should give more rewards. Or reasons for me having to bring people to the warpgate. As a vet the warpgate is the MAIN PRIZE of this game & not winning the alerts. Or a big battle near these gates.

    Yet their isn't enough entertainment value near them. Some are way too tough to hold. Flotillas have some turrets which is fascinating. Beams of sniper turrets. I'd say warpgates need area buffs, or special events near them, that make those regions more interest. As for ARX Reserver Amerish, reaching Jagged Lance over a mountain is unlikely. To get allies to perform that. Also getting that to stay at Jagged Lance, even if we approach from the north. Is unlikely that vs holds it on own against armor & aircraft from the warp. Which is fine, I suppose the gates need some kind of ez field advantage, thus the esf bubble. Still I'd make these regions (areas near warpgates) more entertaining for attackers.




    P.s. Since outfit resources, not every outfit plays like a lame captalist. Slowly camping territories. Splitting the map. Ruining big battles for 3 hours per map alert, as of Sunday last night, yes. They did. 3 fronts for 24 man fights, while I'm trying to organize a route link to a 200 person fight. Yet it never happened. These outfitresourze farmers are the worst leaders ever. For years now. Even before alert gifts or outfit energy, they threw games, or made hours of alerts boring, simply to get their outfit logo on a base. I don't know how you would end this, other than giving players more reasons to dig the map links, to unique 3 way fights.
  2. Somentine

    Idk about giving benefits, but your overall point is pretty true.

    Playing to win the alert usually doesn't coincide with playing for fun, at least overall fun. If you want to win the alert, you want to herd randoms (your faction and others), avoid hard fights/map middle, bring overwhelming pop to attack and defense, and generally spam as much force multis as possible.

    It's both a problem with player attitudes/styles and game mechanics. Both are very hard to change at this point.
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  3. Demigan

    I think its a solvable problem by targeting why players use these behaviours. If they want to be the "best" outfit or territory capturing players for an alert then cheap tactics that shut down fights is the way to go.

    You can change this by:
    - making overpops take longer to cap instead of shorter.
    A crude way of doing this is doubling the capture time on all bases, but the closer to equal pop you get the lower the actual cap time gets until its current capture times.
    - an attrition mechanic, where defenders add 1 second to the cap timer per kill and attackers subtract 0.5 seconds to the timer per kill.

    - changing the value of bases based on how hard the battle was. A base that took no effort to take should be less valuable than a base that took an hour of uphill battle. The value would determine how important it is for an alert capture.

    Ideally these systems would encourage a small overpop and not a perfectly balanced battle.

    Naturally these are bare-bones, and would require a few extra rules and mechanics to prevent things like deliberately not defending, making bases that were easy to take worth more over time, sliding rules for the amount of time extra gained or lost upon an attrition kill, rules on when such things kick in that take into account 1-12, 12-48 etc numbers and more such rules.

    With rules like that you shift the focus. Yes you can galdrop an entire platoon on a single fight and overpop it, but it will take longer and be less valuable. Unless you use the platoon to capture the points of interest and then leave an equal pop behind to hold them while the rest moves on, giving the defenders a chance to rally and push them out.


    As for warpgate fights, they seem mostly interesting as you visit bases you dont often see. But getting there is 9 times out of 10 because of the same continent capture players that zerged there.

    I think it would be easier and more interesting to make multiple versions of each continent. On v2 of the continent the warpgate locations and starting frontlines are shifted, leaving a nice base to fight on the old warpgate location and letting players fight on a different set of starting bases. Have a v3 as well and there would be plenty of variation in the bases we visit. Bonus is that it does not require the devs to build entirely new continents from scratch and they are less likely to theme a continent to an unbalanced part of the game.
  4. Avrien

    I still think they should make all of these continent aspects into installable modules and have baseownership or something to control it. Start with:

    1. Original open map.
    2. Installable modules to create base lattice links. Possibly starting from a warp gate. (Or certain bases. Possibly keeping some if bases are cut off to control how many you can have.)
    3. If enough is owned base lanes after taking over a cont or as some sort of virus to disrupt owned conts.
    4. Module/switch to allow/stop AMS in base zone. IE create no deployable areas.
    5. A way for the 4th empire to temporarily become independent as a new goal. If they acheive it they can fight as a territory owner. If beaten they go back to normal mode!! 8p
    6. Custom base defenses including making turrets automatic/manual only. Possibly remote control and remote repair for very defensible bases. Turret shields etc.
    7. Make everything player controllable.
    8. Anything and everything else imagineable.
    9. the ability to move things like generators?
    10. More use of other items in the bases. Use this to add more things in the game like more consoles to hack etc. Way more could be done with infaltration via hacking and sabotage. If the base just wasn't invincible random objects that didn't do anything.
    11. Existing generator blowing could be a shield module. Without it you can simply shoot it like in PS1. (add more shield modules.)

    Then we can have custom bases and these things are all elements and dynamically applied by the fighting sides.n Imagine highly upgradeable bases on top of base building. the dynamics would be great. the we can add everything in the game we every wanted hypothetically as the game is about adapting circumstances and not preset base design.

    Never waiste development. Use everything.

    Basically, we could have it so that the current timer is a part of the game that players can activate under certain circumstances. Not sure how it would fit it. But what does it logically act as. Maybe only after getting a certain amount of lanes and lattice links connection you can activate a count down or choose to fight for the entire cont. Maybe because it takes a lot of resources to do it.

    I would assume a combination of cont resources like the ant combined with an internal power generator for each base type would limit it to some extent. But could make it dynamic with ants and other additions. So, large bases might have a lot of basic internal energy for lots of defense making them harder to take. Smaller ones not as much, unless one form of lattice link allows the sharing of resources. But consumes more and requires more aunts to generate and keep active.
  5. Somentine

    I think that's a good way to stop some of the most blatant issues, but in the end it also has to be the players choices... and you can see how rare it is for anyone to change their opinions, even on this forum alone.


    The problem I see with these is that they work in a vacuum, but can cause a lot of grief and tension between players (which goes back to what I said about having to basically change both the players and the mechanics), and can even be technically demanding (dynamically changing cap timers) or are just more nuanced (ie. a Max is one pop but in reality it is worth a whole lot more, a squad of infantry vets is worth a whole lot more than a squad of new players [skill issue, but it is relevant since no match making], etc.).

    In the end, I personally think your type of ideas (not exactly these ones) are the way to go, but you gotta remember how many people fall back on the 'open sandbox' trope, and how loud someone complaining is. Or, these players just ignore these new mechanics and continue to do what they want, continually griefing players trying to conform to the new mechanics.


    Unfortunately, I think altering the WG locations and hexes is probably too much work. Altering the starting territory control could definitely be a thing they could try, but eventually it will stalemate back to normal play (like the Indar T), and your type of ideas for making bases easier/harder to capture (to move fights along to the rarer bases) is more realistic.
  6. Demigan

    I think its actually not that difficult. For example alerts already encouraged players to shut down fights in order to "win", but when the Escalation update gave rewards for this type of behaviour to outfits regardless of an alert going on it was supercharged. But even then it took a little time before people streamlined it and really went for the cheapest tactics.

    People do adapt all the time. And all it takes is a nudge in the right direction. Even if it takes a month or two for the new meta to be streamlined I have no doubt it will work.

    When the game launched we had points which could count how many players were nearby, and would speed up or slow down the capture depending on the amount of players. Although you only needed 3 to 12 players around the point, it was a system that changed the capture time depending on player count. All you would need to do is change the parameters: it counts all players in the region and has a tiny bit of math to determine the population difference and what thresholds need to be reached before X or Y happens. Its basically a bit more advanced as the region population counter which tells you "1-12 players on allied side 12-48 on enemy".

    So many people wanted to keep playing at TI Alloys when it was removed from the lattice. And technically they could by simply driving spawns there and starting to fight.
    They didnt, because the end goal (cap point) was gone and the mechanics for the defenders (spawnroom and vehicle spawns) were gone.
    Changing mechanics works to change player behaviour regardless of sandbox type.

    Why would altering WG locations be difficult?
    Lets say you make Scarred rock Mesa a new warpgate. You place a shield over its center and then add a few points to the old warpgate so it can be captured when its not a warpgate. That should be no more difficult than changing the starting frontlines, something the devs already have shown is relatively easy by activating/deactivating bases with the continent warmup system.
    Just have a dice roll or pick versions in order upon continent unlock and you are done.
  7. Somentine

    Yeah, you right.

    Didn't know/remember they had the dynamic tech in the past.


    Not so sure on this one. Not that I disagree entirely, it's just that the example of TI is a little apples to oranges (still a fruit, but different). From what I can tell, most zergs don't really care what the cap time is, and are being led by people who don't care or can't do more than place a WP. Even SKL (Wrel's golden standard for zergfits) hardly ever fights at more than one base at a time, even when defending - 2 platoons online or not.

    Basically, changes would have to be severe enough to dissuade them while also not impeding normal (read: fairer?) game play too much.


    Ah, I thought you meant changing the maps around completely, as in making the WG pre-fabs in other hexes; that would involve a lot of altering of the maps and terrain.
  8. Demigan

    I tried to give a paralel to instances where players could still keep doing the exact same thing, but didnt because their mechanics were gone.

    I think that the reason for Zergs not caring is because there is no reason to care. A base with more time to cap will almost always also have more value to the total territory control and also more branching paths to other territories. However many platoon/outfit led zergs will break up or move away from bases that offer up resistance, IE when the timer is artificially increased. Also for players that streamline capturing the continent it would be inefficient to only cap bases with higher cap times because they have an overpop.
    Adding that increased timer for overpops is important. Especially if it can artificially be increased indefinitely. So you have an overpop? Better make sure you kill more defenders than the defenders kill you or you might be stuck at that base forever. Want to cap the continent quickly? Better not keep all your forces there but spread them out! Just imagine how hard it is to keep an entire Zerg on a base if they have to stick around for 15+ minutes on a large base with little action.

    Even with a complete change of the maps, you would be able to keep almost the entire continent the same and only redesign the old warpgate area and the new one. Making one or two extra versions of each continent would be peanuts compared to making an entire new continent, even as small as Oshur or as half-finished as Hossin.
    But yeah, a simple relocation of the painfield and shield would suffice, you can select any large facility with air and vehicle access that isnt a special facility (AMP, bio, tech). Keep a minimum distance between the facilities and you are gold.
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  9. OpolE

    Errr its called PLANETSIDE 1... Go figure why the PS2 devs efffed it up
  10. AuricStarSand

    I should have titled this " Warpgating should have events " instead of writing benefits. As I don't need outfit resources, or rewards. I meant entertainment wise, these areas are worth more than any reward. The strategy of having to path to 1, or get allies to. When most may too lazy to, initially. Yet you finally reach the enemy warpgate & then? People bail to go ninja elsewhere, everytime. When the siege of the map should be the ultimate goal, not just redeploying to ninja.

    So the ultimate goal, a siege of a warpgate, more awesome than a alert win of ninja'ers. Leads to? So ye benefits is the wrong word, the right word is event. How to make these areas have entertaining events as the reward for pathing to them.
  11. AntDX316


    If people successfully organize taking lots of bases, that's how to play Planetside.

    I agree, some sort of incentive for "warpgating" would be cool but then it would incentive the Need for people to swap to their other faction characters to get the benefit Before it happens further destroying the game. Having "miles" of long "trenches" would Also destroy the game as vehicles and aircrafts would get killed by Many hard-to-kill "MANPADS" (Man-portable air-defense systems) if they aren't "deep" enough or make it worse for vehicles to traverse over such as the area around Stillwater Watch and Vidar Observation Site on Esamir which probably caused significant amounts of frustration across new and seasoned players unfarmiliar with that area.
  12. AntDX316


    Going too "deep" at times can risk being cut off and getting 2v1ed.
  13. AntDX316


    - making overpops take longer to cap instead of shorter.
    no, can you please gain some understanding on how Leadership works. It's about spreading that pop or funneling other factions into an incentivized overpop for a reason such as last base to "warpgate" but this ends up having the other territories with Less pop in which overruns such as cut-offs can occur.

    It's better when the timers can be "predictable". It would be harder for "Command" and people to determine where to be if things become in a way "all-random" or too dynamic. If the game was like 10 bases with some sort of different in-game capture mechanics that created a balance of how many vehicles people can have on a side then your ideas could make sense preferably in a Metropolis map situation just Not when there are 49-89 capturable bases with 800+ on a map during Primetime.

    I mean, imagine ghost capping taking 80% less time to cap than if you have 100+ on a base. This is why I kept saying, your ideas are going to Destroy the game. ("/Command", don't send people to these certain bases as the less people there are the faster the cap, no one please show up to [base-w/e] so we can win this alert!!). This would Also introduce the urge for fratriciding to aggravate people into having people stop spawning at a base so the cap goes down faster and the more people that show up the More urgency it is to get people from your faction Out to win the base (destroying of friendly spawns points such as sunderers). Imagine if outfits figured out how to spread the teamkilling? It would cause new players to Leave the game forever.
  14. Demigan

    I'm not going to screw up this thread too much with replies to you, but here is again an excellent example of you not understanding my proposal at all.
  15. JibbaJabba

    Upon a warpgate base capture where the lattice back to your own warpgate is intact:

    Drain all nanites to 0 for the warpgated faction.
    Refill all natites to 750 for the warpgating faction.

    If the other two hexes are also captured this will repeat for each one.. so long as the lattice back remains intact.
    Does not retrigger unless the hex becomes fully lost then fully retaken again.
  16. AuricStarSand

    1) If 3 factions fight one another at 1 region. A 3 empire battlefield. That's outside of mid. = Then random event: 1 out of 10 happens.

    2) If you reach the warpgate, you get a trebuchet to shoot the bubble down & battering ram, & knock down siege doors, & you shoot flotilla turrets. Then trenches for infantry so they don't leave as they don't all just know or want to tank siege only. Then Bunkers. Then uboats. Then more caltrops allowed per person 10 caltrop ASP skills or double tactical items ASP skill. Then finally give us b52 bombers that get to drop bombs remotely. Then get players in valks, hand held b52 bombs to drop, with their hands, from valks. Then let us dig trenches or build sand bags. Then a air event that helps the attackers summon air near the enemy warpgates esf bubble. A " siege " is amazing battlefield is a better reward. Than watching the vs zerg outfit on your server, that you don't even want to join, viewing them sit at Tawrich all 48 - 96 of them. VS zerg outfit stupidly farming Tawrich when they are only fighting 1 - 12 for 5 min. So they ghostcap for 3 hours. Meanwhile VS owns Crown. & TI has a 100+ enemy fight for those 3 hours. They also never go to Hydro to go west to Advari to start a 3 way there either.

    3) Which brings me to: nobody digs paths to unique 3 region fights. They always ghost ninja for farmzourses for lame outfit leaders. So the minority of outfit leads drag the entire population through the dirt to dull the whole alert for years of hours upon years upon hours upon years & hours. Of nothing. Of ghostcapping bastard outfit minority leaders. While the majority of the playerbase is bored every single day of this camping. These camper zerg outfits. They need to die out. Forever. I just made a outfit & I'm not going to do this to the rest of the players. I know not all VS even want to join the same outfit. Their shouldn't be zerg outfits. All outfits avoid digging to unique regions of the map. They all go for the ghostcap. Everytime.

    4) Links. Why don't they give us some train track links. Maybe not every region gives the option to switch links. Tho it would be pleasant if some gave option to pick which region link you want to train track switch to. Map lines & player options.
  17. AntDX316

    Your understanding is clear, the more overpop the Longer it should take to cap. This is what you want right? I'm saying why it's bad. You can go to the base, do a /regionsay telling people why they should leave the base and eventually the pop will die down if the reasoning is good.
  18. AntDX316

    You are failing to see more of what goes on in the game. Sure, if it was a 1v1 it would make sense but then the game pretty much ended and a new match has to be queued for which is how you see gaming. There are around 50-80+ cappable bases on a map. There are 800+ players on Each map. To get super stuck and even more super stuck when getting "warpgated" will just result in people logging out as there is no reason to continue on fighting and being the farm. What could work is.. the closer the opposing team gets the more buffs the crunched team gets. The more even the fights the more balance the game will feel like being last in Mario Kart and getting All the fast power-ups that get you to 1st place quicker than being in the middle the whole game which Destroys the game (but I have to admit could be more fun). You should be flagged as a poster that people Should never consider (though I reconsidered because having dynamic handicaps/buffs could be a good thing).

    There are ways to influence/lead the faction towards an alert victory. There are ways to keep people having the same level of incentivized fun while working towards a successful victorious alert. Inexperienced especially Highly-inexperienced "Leaders" such as yourself, should just say nothing and give Zero suggestions on how the game should look like because they lack the intellectual capacity to understand how to play the game in a winning manner with Hundreds and hundreds of players.

    Maybe the warpgated faction gets a superboss or some sort of support that helps them keep pushing out for a bit. Probably some AI like the bugs in Starship Troopers, power-ups, special weapons, and the defending team can have sort of power-ups to somewhat balance things out to make it way more interesting that doesn't last forever, just until things become balanced out.