[Suggestion] NSO Heavy w/Ammo Regen > NSO MAX

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by VV4LL3, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. VV4LL3

    Change my mind.

    Statement: A NSO Heavy with regen mod and implant, ammo regen, and ammo belt is better than a NSO MAX Defector.
  2. Liewec123

    IIt depends a lot on the situation.
    Heavy is more versatile and vastly superior for AA, but for other things Defector is better,
    Like keeping pressure on a chokepoint, breaching a room with the awesome bubble and some engi friends,
    Also if you can aim the arcs over long distances the 'Detonator' offers ridiculously high AV dmg.
    • Up x 1
  3. VV4LL3

    Here are my points:

    Heavy can deliver greater utility, mobility, sustainability, and survivability.

    UTILITY:
    A heavy can engage anti air and vehicles with greater damage and from greater distance than the NSO Max. With the ammo regen and utility belt attached, negate the benefits of the NSO Max's energy weapon. Can capture points and occupy various vehicles and aircraft gun mounts. Cost drastically less to restock/ resupply as well. Variety of grenades, weapons, and abilities that apply to most skirmish situations. No need to bombard rooms forever, when you can just clear the room.

    MOBILITY:
    NSO Max travels at 1/3 rate of infantry, offering both increase to utility by greater target access through faster engagement times, but also more survivability by virtue of rapid mobility and movement between and during skirmishes.

    SUSTAINABILITY & SURVIVABILITY:
    The negative of a heavy versus the NSO Max is health pool. However, when considering one does not need more health when they are not getting hit as frequently, and still has health regen implants/ abilities, this becomes moot. Heavy General close range combat can still be highly effective and not hurt themselves, while also not being bogged down by a 3 second melee action.

    Bottom line: Heavy offers greater impact in battle for less cost.
  4. Shadowpikachu

    NSO max is a mortar unit, plain and simple, apples to oranges.
    • Up x 1
  5. VV4LL3


    ...one that is easily replaced by a NSO Heavy.
  6. Soul_Shinobi

    No heavy could be as much as a menace to vehicles as the NSO MAX
    • Up x 1
  7. VV4LL3


    How so? Heavy's rocket launcher has greater range, damage, they have greater mobility, and now have unlimited ammo. Please elaborate.
  8. Liewec123

    [IMG]

    if you're good with landing long range Detonator hits then you have one of the best AV weapons in the game,
    the damage at range is huge, and it deals vehicle damage from splash unlike most other AV weapons, and its spammable.
    • Up x 2
  9. Shadowpikachu


    Yeah in open areas i always run it, you can 2 slap infantry and generally just shell hidden positions or just try to KOBE from the top of a tower twice.

    When you get the kills it's literally sex.
    • Up x 2
  10. InexoraVC

    NSO Light Assault >> NSO Heavy Assault.
    Change my mind

    :)
    • Up x 2
  11. VV4LL3


    "...If you're good..."

    If the standard to determine effectiveness on a curve is solely determined by the upper % and standard "if you're good.." then you have to compare that same litmus test to the Heavy -- "if someone is also good at heavy."

    In your video the target isn't moving and already near death (smoking), furthermore, the animation is sped up, which is manipulating the representation you're attempting to make. You have targeting optics on, but didn't bother revealing their remaining health, highly sus.

    It takes about 3 seconds, on average with the nominal engagement range of the detonator, the weapon in use there. To kill a person, it takes 3 hits from the detonator. A weapon that also has a huge minimum range. The area you're in also has no one shooting at you, close or far, telling that your tactics are simply predatory on single, stationary, lone targets. You might as well used footage from the Virtual Training. lol
  12. VV4LL3


    I agree -- esp with the unlimited ammo and HP regen. The mobility and survivability is amazing!


    If Light > Heavy, does that also mean Light > Defector?
  13. Botji

    If you think about it you will notice that NSO as a faction has a theme going on, both in lore and actual game features. They are not there to be a 4th faction fighting the other 3 in the war by themselves, they are there to support the other factions in the war by fighting with them.

    Defector is a great support unit.

    Javelin is at least a decent support unit being a distraction and extra damage if ignored.

    Chimera is a big target with a 'high' turret, super weak to being attacked from behind and/or point blank range... almost as if it would perform well as a mid to back line vehicle to use its high turret to give fire support as well as using the other non-Chimera vehicles to cover its horrendous rear and up close weakness since they can shoot whatever is up its bum. Siren is imo the #1 G2A weapon since its very effective against ESFs, decent against Liberators and still a very good ground AV weapon(even ok against infantry) which could let a Chimera run both the role of AA in a tank group instead of a Skyguard and still be superb AV support as well.

    Flying Pancake aka Dervish is typically weak alone but more than worth its 2 person crew in a small group of aircraft, the turret itself can usually be worth more than having 1-2 extra ESFs in the fight given that the users are not actual real life potatoes.


    The TL;DR is that most if not all NSO 'vehicles' provides massively to whatever group they are put in. A well rounded infantry zerg gets so much more than just +1 MAX if a Defector arrives, even if there are already 10 other faction MAXes there that 1 Defector will help a lot because it does more than just cut down infantry. Same with the actual vehicles, they more often than not are worth more than +1 of any of the faction vehicles BUT have distinct and easy to take advantage of weaknesses making them vulnerable when alone.
    • Up x 1
  14. VV4LL3

    Cool. Thanks for agreeing.

    I too, think the NSO Heavy makes the NSO Max obsolete.
  15. Soul_Shinobi

    Yep. The only faction MAX I fear when tanking.
    • Up x 1
  16. Liewec123

    Nope.
    No matter how good you are at landing decimator shots you won't get anywhere near to the damage that Detonators can unleash.

    Wasn't near death (there isn't smoke), and it's not sped up (you'll see it takes 2-3 seconds for my nades to reach the target),
    and I didn't bother Q spotting because I didn't think I needed to (and it looks like I didnt!)


    I was outside of our base hunting vehicles that were camping the exits,
    as as you can see from the little bounty symbol, I was doing it rather successfully.:D
    Lightnings end up smoking before they even know what's happening,
    And it might be the best sunderer buster weapon in the game, constant huge dmg on a big stationary target.

    Stick a heavy outside of the base in the open and tell him to go hunting lightnings with his little rocket launcher and its 5 shot kill and 5.7 second reload, see how he compares!

    You've just got to face facts, detonator>rocket launcher for busting long range targets.
    • Up x 1
  17. Botji

    Mind sharing your super elite tactics that lets a NSO Heavy solo two VS/TR/NC MAXes using AI weapons that does not involve "They step on my C4 and die LOL", how you can be area denial against ESFs on your own and how you can block all incoming fire for a second or two so your team can push into a room to clutch the base defense?

    Oh, you can obviously do this with the same loadout too since its so easy to do with a heavy that the Defector is obsolete.
    Please teach us!
    • Up x 1
  18. T.A.94

    If a player is already decent with a Heavy, they will dominate with the already easy to use defector.
    Because you:
    • have more health
    • can't get oneshotted by an infiltrator or a stray tankshot
    • have no real reloadtime
    • have constant AOE dmg
    • have a supportive ability benefitting your allies compared to a oneman overshield
    • have primaries that are able to damage everything
    • don't loose dps by pulling a rocketlauncher first
    • have access to the berserker implant
    change my mind

    Also:

    https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=vv4ll3&show=weapons

    https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=nsoclanker&show=weapons

    Comparing the grenade printer stats is very amusing if you ask me, especially accuracy and playtime regarding the amount of kills.
    • Up x 1
  19. LodeTria

    Nah the vehicles are pretty wank, javelin is a joke now it's not nearly as nimble compared to when NSO were members-only. The chimera is just an even worse vanguard with a meme satyr and the dervish is only really decent against liberators. Too bad is gets prayed upon by the far more common ESFs & galaxys have too much bulk and can out-dps the dervish.

    The MAX is actually decent tho, with those splash grenades which are extremely effective vs other maxes and decent enough vs infantry. The bubble buddy shield is ok, but makes you an easy target for out of sight attacks through walls and stuff.
    • Up x 1
  20. VV4LL3

    * Heavy has 500/500, and +450 with Nanite. So, what, Max has 550 more HP? Marginal. This doesn't count implants/ other item abilities that increase it further though to ~1800 hp. I'm maintaining the spirit of what you're trying to say though.

    Disposition: (-/+) Negligible
    * Two shot by tanks all the time. One shot technically if it's a multishot/rapidfire tank. Also, still get smoked by mosis, reavers, etc... before you can remotely deal threatening damage.
    Disposition: -1
    * Depending how you play, overheating is the reload... for instance 3 round burst on Detonator is required due to the incredibly SLOW projectile speed, it takes 3 rounds of IDF, if you're lucky, to kill basic infantry (reference splash damage). Direct hits, .5m, are much higher, but still require 2 hits. Do you know how far someone can walk/ move in 3-5 seconds? Far. Heavy can deal more direct and lethal fire, thusly is more effective. Reloadtime for heavy is on par for cooldown.
    Disposition: -1
    * Fair point. A Heavyw ith a Rocket Launcher and Regen could provide this role only in a limited way for about 2 minutes.

    Disposition: +1
    * Marginal. The support ability drains directly from your healthpool, increased your hitbox by an extremely large amount, and receives both enemy AND friendly fire, AND you damage it from your own grenades. Due to the removal of normal speed melee from the Defector, with 3 second melee refresh, shield is only effective is a coordinated team. We are speaking to the average player, otherwise a Kung-Fu master in toothpick expertise would be considered dangerous in a plastic spoon fight. We are not talking about niche situations. As a whole, the ability is SUBPAR.
    Disposition: (-/+) Negligible


    Heavy can not only damage anything with a balanced loadout, they have a much higher degree of effectiveness due to it. Heavy Machinegun with Explosive Crossbow, deals more damage, has more application, than lobbing mediocre grenades.
    Disposition: -1
    * What you're talking about is mid-game level experience at switching weapons between or during engagements. This affects all players equally. Due to a Heavy Rocketlauncher's damage, reload, and weapn swap performance, the time inbetween is on par with the cooldown time of the Defector's Grenade printer, if not faster in some instances, and thus is a basic player skill knowledge issue. Every player has to learn the swap times and know when is a good time to reload / swap. The Defector's Grenade printer spam's cooldown period is longer than either of those times, thus affects both equally.
    Disposition: -1

    * Of note for those unfamiliar: [Berserker Implant] Max only, Take 20% more damage for 50/hp regen.
    * Heavy can equip [Regeneration 5] "
    Regenerates
    35

    health per second when out of combat for 10 seconds, and
    headshot kills regenerate 100 health over 2 seconds

    ."
    Disposition: -1



    Summary: 8 points were presented, 2 were negligible, 1 positive point made on AOE spam, and 5 points countered.