[Suggestion] Advanced Specialization Project (ASP) Revised

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Amador, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Amador

    Seeing as there's been some notable changes as of late, in feel there's finally been a breath of hope again for fixing things for PS2. With that said, I'll be taking a much needed swing at the Advanced Specialization Project (ASP) for revision.

    First and foremost, I will say that I've been around since the Beta and I've played on-and-off over the years finally reaching a rank of BR 113 at the time of this post for PS2. Not something worth being proud of. Unlike my days playing Planetside 1 and having a max BR of 25 and a former CR 5 - which was actually meaningful then.

    So you're probably asking; "Why are you bothering to explain your current level and how does this relate to the ASP program?" There's a simple answer to that...

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    The road to 100 or even 120 is a very long and slow process for the average player. It's even more hideous if you're a non-member. Anyone who plays PS2 knows there's really no point to reaching level 120, other than a prestigious title. And every level you spend over BR 100 is essentially a "waste" for those that know to opt-into the existing ASP program as soon as possible.

    I've personally decided to forgo the ASP program at level 100 simply because the mere thought of having to start over again was an absurdity. The amount of work versus the amount of time I actually am willing to invest into the game in its current state is simply not worth it.

    Additionally, as I look around while I play in-game, I can see many other players who are still very much below the level 100 threshold. BR 12, BR 25, BR 43, BR 57, etc. proving in my mind that there's no point in making things harder when there's masses of players who probably may never play PS2 enough to reach BR 100.

    With that said... I'll get to the point...

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    TL;DR - I feel that any player, regardless of member or non-member, whom actually endured the slow process to reach BR 100 should automatically be granted full access to the ASP program. While also still being able to continue the journey to BR 120.

    That's it. If you reach BR 100, you have now been granted full access to the ASP program and you can select whatever few talents or perks that suit you best. Because you've endured playing the game long enough to deserve it.

    And considering current events, PS2 is trying desperately to promote player growth, or at the very least, maintain customer retention.

    (NOTE: I personally like to play Engineer the most and quite frankly I'm tired of using Carbines. And I'd like to have an Assault Rifle at my side after all these years. If players can play the Heavy Assault meta 24/7, then I am equally at liberty to play an Engineer 24/7 if I so desire.

    Because Carbines just aren't even really fun anymore, if anything it's becoming boring. And "boring" is a dangerous thing to say regarding a free-to-play game. Because "boring" means they can go anywhere else for entertainment. Which I have, as after all these years I am still only BR 113. Something to consider.)

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    To those hardcore long-term players that will obviously be against this proposal. Sorry to say, but the original ASP system was poorly implemented and should have always been offered as a reward, not as a crucible.

    The ASP program needs to be changed and accessible to any and all BR 100 players, with full access upon reaching BR 100.

    It's time for change. And the change is overdue. Way overdue...
    • Up x 2
  2. Demigan

    Well Dasanfall already had somewhat of a solution: it used your XP to calculate a final level. I think I was over BR 125 by the time the expanded BR120 system hit, but it still asked me to level up to 120 for the title because much of the XP was earned before the update, which is just dumb. Someone with a bunch less XP could reach BR120 now and be Several levels into ASP compared to the XP I had upon the update. Worse: you may remember how XP gain was in the early days. No bonus xp, no extreme menace. Just 100xp for infantry kills and 100 xp for a vehicle kill. If we had XP gain like we do now from launch my XP would be what, 40% higher than now? More perhaps?


    Anyway:
    If you activate ASP, the game should still tally your XP and count how much you would need for br120. So if you reach 37,737,900XP then you should get the BR120 rewards.

    Another thing: when you start you should get 1 free ASP. Starting the ASP system would no longer give you an ASP point. Additionally all players are allowed to refund 1 ASP every 24 hours. That way all players can try out different ASP's, they wont be at a too big disadvantage compared to ASP players and if you make a wrong choice/updates make your choice worse you can still switch out your ASP loadout. However you cannot swap it out completely mid-battle to gain advantages, which is good.
    • Up x 2
  3. Liewec123

    I like the idea, also they should add more ASPs, like max ASPs, all other classes have multiple ASPs,
    We have vehicle discount ASPS and yet max is left with none.

    Examples for max ASP:
    M.A.X Pilot: reduce the cost of max by 50.
    System Restoration: while your MAX ability is active restore 2% heath per second.
    Blast Plating: reduce the damage taken from C4 by 50% (does not stack with Ordnance armour c4 reduction)

    I've long thought that maxes should be able to survive a single c4 without Ordnance armour,
    So making it an ASP is better late than never.
    The regen during ZOE, lockdown and aegis would be great imho to finally give max a slow self heal when using Ordnance armour.
    And the 50 cost reduction is just nice, though not as much as vehicle cost reduction ASPS (which lower lib/mbt to 360)
  4. Nighda Venesis

    I'm a VS BR100 ASP100 and I want some way to reach BR120. I think I suggested two separate level gauges the player can switch between from the profile menu in an op post I made in the past.

    I agree the system could've been implemented much better. For me it's just that I dumbed out of a grind that I now want to go through, and there's no reason it should be inaccessible to me. At the time I thought "Eh, I don't care about some titles", but now I want something for my earned xp to go towards. I'm "done" except not really.
  5. RabidIBM

    It might be better to focus on what could make the ASP system better and more interesting. I have it, and most of my points are unspent. My own 2 are:
    Engineer shotgun secondary: This way I can have the archer and still have an anti-infantry primary.
    Tank discount: This way I can give certed tanks away to new players on Tipsy Tanker Tuesday and not run out of nanite.
    That's it. Otherwise me reading the list of potential perks sounded like: "Meh"..."meh"..."meh"..."meh" *scroll* "Meh"...

    The reality is that the dev team was facing some pressure to implement a prestige system like other games have, but Planetside 2 was designed without a prestige system in mind, so making one was very awkward. It was only really made to silence a loud minority who thought it was needed.
  6. JibbaJabba

    I've distilled your post to the bits I wanted to address.

    I've got 4 ASP 100 characters. The first of those was a BR 120 already when ASP released. I had a choice on the other 3 and went to ASP immediately at 100.

    I want to stress this bit you said. That's it. It's just a title. On the character that has it I don't even use it.

    What do you mean "start over again"? It doesn't take away your stuff. Starting over is not worth what exactly? What do you give up? That number? 113? You get a Emblem in place of it that's much more prestigious if that's what's important. If I see an ASP icon on someone I assume they have a clue. It means something. If I see a 113... I suppose that says the same thing. It's not really what comes to mind though. Instead if's more of a headshake and "why?"
    It already is accessible to any and all BR 100 players, with full access upon reaching BR 100.
    100% agreed. Your change is overdue and you need to let go of this. If I'm not mistaken you should already be on your 3rd ASP token, possibly 4th by now. I think you are suffering (greatly) from Sunk-Cost Fallacy.

    If you are about to quit over this then I would suggest: Forget BR114. Hit the button right now. Enjoy the new stuff in the game and stop denying yourself. It's fun.

    You've become accustomed to grinding at levels needed past 100. Reset back to 1, get your ASP token. You'll be at BR25 getting the second one in a weekend. (really... you've forgotten how easy it is at low BR).
    • Up x 1
  7. Demigan

    You stress that its all just titles and nothing noteworthy, so why not change it? If everything you say is true and it is inconsequential except for the people like OP who want it, then there is no reason to keep it.

    In the end the game is supposed to make you enjoy it. That means goals have to be aligned with each other and not oppose each other. By making the goal "reach BR120 for a title" but also giving some specialization options if you drop that BR120 you create the exact feeling OP has: he is torn between completionism and the efficiency that ASP choice can give him, like replacing one side-arm with a primary.

    So there is no reason to keep it and all the reason to change it. Better yet it is purely a factor of changing the numbers and when the reward switch is flicked to give you a title.
  8. Amador

    Congratulations. It seems you're enjoying the game as is, and are willing to invest the time and effort into building those characters. Several times over in some cases. You are comfortable with that choice. I am not.

    Currently BR 100 costs non-members a whopping 10,000 certs to opt-into a "continued leveling grind" just for perks.

    The ASP program should have been instantly granted to all BR 100 players (regardless of membership) with fully unlocked ASP perks available for selection. As a "congratulations" for reaching BR 100 and playing the game for as long as you have. It should've been given to players as a "gift" and added incentive for players as an "end game goal".

    If people knew that BR 100 meant that they'd have new weapons or features instantly and fully available to them, they'd likely work harder towards it knowing they have a brand-new play experience sitting there waiting them at the end of the road to unlock.

    This is the "end game" that no one had the sense to properly implement into PS2 for all players.

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    The ASP program for non-members currently costs 10,000 certs to unlock it. It ain't cheap. And it sure as hell ain't free.

    And even after unlocking the ASP program, you still have the "continued leveling grind" all over again to obtain the perks you just dumped 10,000 certs for.

    Starting to see why it sucks yet?

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    "The amount of work versus the amount of time I actually am willing to invest into the game in its current state is simply not worth it."

    I'm not dumping 10,000 certs just to unlock ASP - a feature that should've been a reward for players since the day of its inception. It was a feature that was poorly implemented to this day. And still no viable improvements have been made on it.

    Imagine if the developers actually spent more time developing a "leveling roadmap" with increased perks all the way to BR 100 instead of wasting time on "new player training courses". Because "new player training courses" are quickly grown out of and also essentially become useless to all veteran players.

    Having a "leveling roadmap" is what actually keeps players engaged, entertained, happy and present past level 25. Everything regarding video games these days has to do with the concept of work versus reward. If you put loot at the end of the road, or a nice new perk, players will have incentive to continue playing to advance towards it.

    Priorities need to get sorted out. Because I know developmental effort is currently being wasted.
  9. VhynSeven

    I get that 10k certs sounds like a lot, but once you add all the certs gained from experience, rank increase, mission rewards and alert participation, it is actually not that hard to get. Even more if you don't waste them left and right by buying things you would barely use.

    However I think it would be interesting to have better options for certain ASP which, quite frankly, lacking.
  10. Amador

    Here, let me put some of this into perspective, just to point out how terribly absurd this all is for PS2.
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    Relevance of Level:
    • Why was BR 100 chosen as the entry level into the ASP program rather than BR 120?
    • Why must the ASP program stop you from continuing on to reach max level at BR 120?
    • Why is the maximum level still BR 120, knowing that the ASP leaves you marked as BR 100?
    • Why hasn't anyone had the sense to make BR 100 the maximum level to begin with?
    • Why keep BR 120 as max level, knowing players will abandon its progress at BR 100 to opt-into ASP?
    • Why isn't the max level BR 100, where all players are automatically entered into the ASP by default?
    • Why even have a maximum level at all, when games such as GTAV can go from level 1 to 999?
    • Why doesn't PS2 allow players to continue leveling from 1 to 999 as a mark of prestige amongst the community?
    • Why doesn't PS2 allow players to show their true level, rather than a nearly pointless Directive achievement system?
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    Relevance of Cert Cost:
    • Why does ASP for non-members cost 10,000 certs?
    • Why must non-members waste 10,000 certs to opt-into ASP just to participate in "EXP grind v2.0"?
    • Why do people still trivialize 10,000 certs knowing that is the equivalent to unlocking 10 new weapons?
    • Why waste 10,000 certs for ASP when it should have been given as a default reward at BR 100 long ago?
    • Why would ASP be justified in costing 10,000 certs, knowing that people who had it are unimpressed?
    • Why haven't all players simply been given total ASP access when they hit BR 100 by default?
    • Why haven't all players simply been given at least a minimum of 4 perks upon unlocking ASP by default?
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    Relevance of Player Disapproval:
    • Why are the players consistently commenting about how unremarkable the ASP feature is?
    • Why are the players disappointed with ASP when its the only real "End Game" content feature PS2 has?
    • Why are there players whom reached BR 120 yet never received proper title credit because of the ASP?
    • Why does BR 120 remain, if veteran players knowingly consider it an obsolete goal over opting into the ASP?
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    Relevance of Squandered Potential:
    • Why was PS2 wasting time making a "new player experience" over improving ASP?
    • Why is PS2 suddenly bothering to make a "new player experience" for a 8+ year old game past its prime?
    • Why hasn't PS2 pushed better ASP perks, which could potentially encourage more unlock transactions?
    • Why hasn't PS2 created an enhanced "leveling roadmap" that offers more rewards for players while leveling?
    • Why has PS2, an MMO FPS, completely forgotten that weapons/loot/perks/talents drive MMO player participation?
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    Figured I'd point out just a few problems. I didn't want to go overboard or anything.
  11. JibbaJabba

    If?

    People know how the ASP program works. If not it's spelled out in like a paragraph. It's not some dark secret.

    No.

    It's 10,000 certs. You're already BR100. If you don't have about half that just laying around at any given time then I think you're playing atypically at that BR.

    If you need to grind some more, you grind some more.

    It is indeed a perk of paying actual real world money to skip the 10k. No such option to skip the 5k respec... which you may find yourself doing many times over... again not a big deal. 5k certs for an ASP character is scraps.

    Ok.

    Others are. Or perhaps they find their time more valuable than their money and they just pay for a membership.

    If find it odd that you place such value on your time but value some ingame title even more. Subjective though, you do you.
    I'm pretty happy with it.
    You aren't even using it.
    Gonna trust my own judgement here.
    I think priorities are just fine. Revamping the ASP system so that some folks can have their free title seems pretty low priority to me. Plus add to that if you did it you would alienate all the people who put the effort into it previously And if you take away a 10k cert membership perk, you drive less memberships.

    This whole idea sounds lose-lose to everyone except those that want a free ingame title without having to grind for it.

    Let me just add that I'm not super sympathetic to pleas "let me have membership stuff without paying for membership". It's basically just asking others to pay for your game for you.

    To sum up though:
    It's just a title. YOU are choosing to deny yourself ASP perks.
    It's a no vote from me on the "give me the membership stuff for free" because I don't think it helps the game.

    Let it go. Hit the button and get your first ASP point. You could have the second one before the weekend too.
  12. JibbaJabba


    The OP and the people that have chosen to grind for this are all tin the same group: They value the title for some reason.

    I don't.

    But the OP is basically asking to screw over all those other people that do. He wants what they worked for for free. No. It's a BS request whether I have skin in the game or not.
  13. Amador

    I don't value the BR 120 title at all. Not once did I make a comment about it being relevant to me. So that comment right there is bogus, suggesting to me that the whole premise of my discussion was barely given more than a glance.

    However, what I did admit to is being unwilling to essentially delete 10,000 certs just for an alternative leveling experience.

    Non-members must -unlock- ASP with 10,000 certs for a menial start-up bonus. Whereas members are granted the same menial ASP start-up bonus, but instead it's just for -free-.

    Do ya get it yet?

    The whole premise of me bringing up ASP was to make it a default reward to all players who reached BR 100, with at least 4 perks available for unlock at the start. So that all players had a reward to look forward to at BR 100 that was instantly granted because of their commitment to reach BR 100 which is otherwise a very long and slow road.

    ASP, since its inception, should have been a default reward for reaching BR 100. Period.

    What if I told you, that players should have never been forced to choose between BR 100 or BR 120?
    What if I told you, that the ASP program was broken and flawed since the beginning?
    What if I told you, that virtually no further meaningful effort was invested into ASP since its release?
    What if I told you, that everyone who had to endure the struggle associated with ASP was completely needless?
    What if I told you, that everyone who struggled to work for ASP was a result of a poorly implemented system?
    What if I told you, that those who got burned by the ASP program may now choose to defend its dysfunction?
    What if I told you, that ASP's dysfunction is indefensible and must be reworked and expanded upon as a critical "End Game" reward, giving high-level players a meaningful goal to achieve and incentive to continue playing PS2 upon reaching BR 100 to enjoy their newly earned and expanded ASP perks?
  14. Demigan

    Then dont pretend to know the exact value they assign to it. As has been pointed out to you there is a conflict of values to pursue, one that does not sit well with some players. There is no reason to have such a choice in the game. A developer has to protect players from themselves, and having this choice is simply not a good one.

    "Because others already screwed themselves over already we need others to screw themselves over as well".

    You talked about sunk cost fallacy, well here its back! You are protecting the sunk cost of others to keep its supposed value, regardless of how bad it might be for some players. We should not protect a system that obviously does not add to the enjoyment of the game. Especially since most of those people who got the BR120 title before ASP was introduced, since they have no real sunk cost without that choice to go ASP earlier. Yet you have no problem with the players that got the title before ASP was introduced, so why would you have a problem now?
    Because you feel other people's sunk cost needs to be protected from something that already isnt half as valuable to begin with.
  15. JibbaJabba


    Unfortunately, yes. I believe this. They might be dummies but I still like them.

    Give the title away... doesn't bother me in the slightest.
    Get rid of BR 101 through 120. doesn't bother me at all.

    The only skin I have in the game at all is related to the health of the game itself:
    I don't want people quitting. Devaluing something they value and worked really super hard for is a good way to do that. It's bad for the game.
    Don't give away for free something that is a money earner. Devalue the membership perks and fewer will want membership, and those that have it will see less incentive to keep it.
  16. JibbaJabba

    Nosir. Own it.

    You said this:
    And you also said this:
    So there is no point in what you are doing other than to achieve the title.

    No. And neither do you. You're still going to have to spend the 10k points once you reach 120. You avoid nothing by the path your are choosing. Since nothing is avoided, we are left only with what is gained. That is the title.

    You are doing this for the title. I think maybe you don't see that.

    No. You want something for free. It's enticing. It's enticing to a specific customer, those that are long time players. There is a key opportunity here for dev to sell something. Without selling something there is no game.

    I'd remind you as a player who has truly been around since beta of how we ended up with the vestigial BR120 to begin with. You know this. You were here. It was the first attempt at expanding the end game and ultimately kinda blah. ASP was much better but leveraged the Prestige code in the engine.
    I'd say that's an opinion. I'd say I have a different one. And I'd point out that I've used it 4x over and you haven't used it once.
    would believe you. It doesn't really need fixed. I wouldn't mind seeing it expanded though.
    Agree. Quit doing it. I've been saying that.
    I would disagree and blame the player. We make our own choices. To play the game at all even.

    You made the wrong choice. You hit BR100 and decided incorrectly to keep pushing towards BR120. Now you're not even halfway there and you're regretting it. The frustration is channeling out in a forum post. Possibly even at me for being the harsh messenger of reality.

    It's not the 10k certs. You have that laying around or could achieve it easily. You've got sunk cost here. That's the problem.
  17. RabidIBM

    Regarding the 10,000 certs, maybe grab one month of membership? The game needs to be free to play to keep an influx of new players, but it also has expenses to keep the lights on. If you've played enough to reach BR 100 then I don't think 15 bucks or whatever is a big ask.
    • Up x 2
  18. JibbaJabba


    Are you going to take a stab at answering any of your own questions? No guesses at all?

    Begging the question - Wikipedia
  19. VhynSeven

    Going ASP at BR100 or going all the way to BR120 ? Well the choice is purely for the hardcore grinders who like to unlock hard-to-get titles and badges. You may not find it interesting, but some players like it. It isn't the first time I saw a game offering that kind of thing. Besides, even with ASP being very appealing, it isn't like it is mandatory to get to enjoy the game.

    Though, while ASP isn't mandatory, it still allows players to equip 2 primaries, which is quite an advantage over other players, so it is understandable that it comes with a price. On that point, I'd like to point something :
    BR113 is equal to 31M exp, which is equal to 124k certs. Plus any other certs you might have get from ranking up, alerts, and missions. So as long as one doesn't spend his certs on things he would hardly use, it is very easy to have enough certs for unlocking ASP.
    • Up x 1
  20. JustGotSuspended

    Who said you must do anything? It's a choice after all.

    You can play the game perfectly fine as a br 1 alt with nothing, or an ASP 100 or a regular br 120. You don't have to do anything. ASP brings advantages and disadvantages, and really doesn't have any major impact to any class other than engineer.

    And you can reach br 120 if that's what you really want, and then cert into ASP and grind ASP 100. Depending on how you play it's really not that hard. Why complain it's long when you choose to go for br 120 first after saying yourself it's just for a worthless title you'll probably never use. Be mad at yourself for choosing that route lol.

    And come on, complaining about the cost? 10k certs is nothing, especially now and when you reach that stage in the game. You could easily grind that in a weekend, without membership.

    If you decide it's not worth 10k certs (you're probably not wrong), then don't buy it. The people who don't care about the price will.

    https://ae.christianlouboutin.com/c...u-velours-strass-black?variant=37714359124150

    I would love to get these shoes. I don't think they're worth 4k, so I don't buy them. I'm not happy about that, but I'm not going to complain to anyone about it; I understand I'm not the intended audience, and that others may find that reasonable - maybe so will I one day.

    While I do agree that we need more choices and more ASP points to spend on choices, you're basically just trying to implement some sort of welfare, which further reduces the relevance of a membership.

    I support working on the ASP perks to make them more interesting, and adding more variety. But giving it to everybody for free is silly. There's no point in being a member then, and it just kills the point of having a prestige where you can level up.

    You don't need ASP, you don't think it's worth it, and I would agree with you if I wasn't an engineer main. But that doesn't mean it's completely broken and needs to be granted to everyone for free. Just don't worry about it, and stop blaming others for the consequences of your decisions.

    (Btw DM me for my shoe size and shipping info if anyone who reads this feels like gifting me those shoes :D )
    • Up x 1