Can we PLEASE nerf Infiltrators already?

I'll preface this with the fact that I do agree with you on these points. I think a lot of Devs do as well which is why more recent games like MW and BFV have massively trimmed down on these features.

I honestly don't really remember, I didn't get into shooters before then.
I'm not talking about voice comms, but the actual SS headsets you could sound-***** with certainly weren't common until <10 years ago, at least not in my experience.

Surprised it made it into CS even briefly, though. Doesn't really fit that game at all.

Though on one hand game mechanics get you some information for "free", on the other the limitations of those same mechanics cause you to miss out on a lot of information you would otherwise obtain naturally.

Again, not really sure where it would place the chevron that doesn't both clutter/mislead, or give away too much 'free' info.

Maybe a border around the mini-map, split into 4/8 quadrants/sections, that light up brighter/darker. Similar to the directional hit markers for the player taking damage?

Haven't played any new FPS games in a long time, but if what you say is true imo it's a step in the right direction overall.

Possibly. Could be biased since I played a lot of CS, which basically required the use of headset (and mic was really important to), and basically everyone had one in those games.

Absolute cancer, imo. The radar used to tell you were your allies were and that was it. Then there was an update that made it so a teammate auto spots an enemy and it marks them and tracks them for a very short time.

Was already getting bored of the game and that change was like the final nail.

Not really sure what you mean at the end. What info would you get naturally?

Their argument, fundamentally,(I believe) is that information distracts from other information. They could use sound to navigate, if not distracted by minimap, or other similar sources).

I myself think the game is too mushy because of its clientside information to *not* use a minimap.

Just that your awareness of what is going on around you is much keener in reality than it is in a videogame. You're limited to 2/5 senses which are themselves limited in what they can display to you, which is why in games we have so many artificial boosts to what we can see and hear in a macro scale. Not an argument for or against anything, just an observation.

Infils don't need a nerf they need a buff. Every other class other than infil should be removed

...Please tell me you are being sarcastic. For the love of Vanu, the Suits, Unity, or whatever robots worship, please tell me you don't think Infils are actually underpowered, and every other class should be removed wholesale.

If you are being sarcastic, haha funny joke and I upvote you, but if not... I'm afraid I'm gonna need you to elaborate on that one, sir/madam.

Wouldn't matter if 1 of the 2 available classes would be removed - would just make it harder for the Iniltrators without the "Target" class (and it's sub classes of heavy, medic, etc.)

I would just place it right around the player himself. Chevrons aim right at the player they intend to aim at. If chevrons are very close that they are intersecting for more than 33% (for example) they merge into a wider chevron that points inbetween the sources. Should the chevrons move too far apary they will split up again. Like sound icons right now they would be gone almost immediately.
The chevrons would obviously turn to face the position it came from, even though that doesn't make too much sense but otherwise it offers too little information.

As an alternative I thought off: let a sound "wave" reach the player on the minimap. It comes from the direction of the sound. Wider sound waves are from longer ranges. multiple sounds in quick succession increases the number of waves visible and their wideness.

Like Kane says, playing a video game heavily limits the senses at your disposal. For example sound from the front will enter the ear, but have an "echo" of sound bounced from the shoulder, this echo "misses" the ears if it comes from the back because the ears are positioned more to the front. Without that information or moving your head it is literally impossible to hear if the sound comes from the front or back of you. When you hear sound in a crowded room you start moving your head, this also helps pinpoint individual sounds and helps focus on a particular sound like the person you speak to. That is impossible even with a surround headset since the headset moves with your head and even worse most headsets are on-ear headsets*, which changes the shape of the ear and heavily reduces the body's ability for localizing and discerning sounds properly, that is the whole reason we have ridges and shapes in our ears.

And that is just with the sense we do have, many senses are simply not there at all.


*personally I find the fact that most headsets are on-ear a crime in itself. Anyone studying sound engineering should know the most basic of basic of how the ear works when when it comes to receiving sounds and localizations. How the largest portion of headsets, especially surround sets that I looked into, can be on-ear is unforgivable. The fact that there are any on-ear headsets at all is a crime, although I would not be opposed to offering the choice with a warning label so people know that they effectively buy a lower quality sound from the get-go.

Again, problem with all these is that you would be placing things on the minimap that aren't really there. As much as I don't like the current mechanics, they make sense to put them on the mini-map because they are real information.

It should be concrete information that you can glean at a very quick glance. Because there are people with disabilities, or even just because of how chaotic the sound can get in large fights, I do agree that there could probably be a very rough indicator of what's going on as long as it abides the above. That being said, there currently are also tracers, hit markers, muzzle flashes, sound, and there would still be spotting (just not tracking/3d like now). All of which I feel is quite a lot of information already.

What shouldn't happen is the way I play, where I spend a good 30-50% of my time watching the mini-map, because it offers so much accurate information. Couple that with sound + map/building awareness, and it's very hard to be blindsided by anything but an infil or someone just camping.

Not really an audio techie, so I got nothing about how sound technically works.

That being said, while you are limited in some aspects, you are also very unburdened in general and given more information than in real life.

For sense of sound, while I don't know how it is done, you can definitely make out directions and roughly the distance of every sound in the game without having to swivel your head. For example, have someone stand behind you shoot; without moving you can tell they are behind, what gun they are using, roughly how many bullets they shot, roughly how far behind you they are, and in what direction.

But they are real information! Just not displayed as directly as you might want. This is similar to real-world radar not knowing the exact size and distance of a stealth aircraft, or the simple fact that a player might hear the direction of the sound but not the exact location.

"Ah I see that someone is nearby to the northeast, better watchout". You can see it in one blink of an eye.
"I see that there are probably two sources of sound to the north and one to the southeast". Still visible in the blink of an eye. Its not as if you can count 12+ dots on the radarscreen either, but with knowledge of the terrain and what the minimap displays you should be able to determine which dots might move to be a threat and which not. This system would do essentially the same, just not with direct imput of where the threat comes from. You would still know something is north, and rather than watch the radarscreen for the blip to see where they are or where they go you get to watch your main screen to see if you can find them north of you.

Then why are you against my idea? Because the minimap would show less data but more directions, you get to spend more time watching your screen and just glancing at the minimap instead.

Not really an audio techie, so I got nothing about how sound technically works.

That being said, while you are limited in some aspects, you are also very unburdened in general and given more information than in real life.

For sense of sound, while I don't know how it is done, you can definitely make out directions and roughly the distance of every sound in the game without having to swivel your head. For example, have someone stand behind you shoot; without moving you can tell they are behind, what gun they are using, roughly how many bullets they shot, roughly how far behind you they are, and in what direction.[/quote]

You are unburdened in some ways and burdened in others. That is why it should not be a problem to let players identify sound sources like this.

omg, im glad im not the only one...

Fair enough.

If you could, take a picture of a crowded minimap fight, and show me what exactly your idea is meant to do, because how i'm envisioning it is a pretty chaotic mess.

Not your idea in general, just the implementation.