The NC is still not Balanced out after 9 years!!!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by xHighHammerx, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. xHighHammerx

    Just gonna keep it short, the NC has literally the most OP weapons in the game after 9 years. Example, >Vanguard< … it pops the shield up and becomes literally indestructible while uses the most OP main canon … one would think that giving a tank such a powerful shield is to compensate for the WEAK main canon given to it but is not the logic PS2 ever thought of apparently … giving it an op canon and an OP shield is just Wrong …

    VS is balanced IMO and TR is just trashed, the weakest and most nerfed weapons and toys since day one and got its iconic weapons nefed to state of uselessness!!!

    While you guys are at it with the updates, look into balancing out the game after 9 years. You should consider yourselves lucky that people are still around playing a game that always favorited NC over other faction due to its history and the devs involved at the time…

    Thanks!
    • Up x 2
  2. Johannes Kaiser

    Is this a joke? I wouldn't say any faction is generally OP or UP, the overall balance is imo more or less fine. But if you were to point towards an OP faction, I'd rather look elsewhere than NC...
    Some options are not really balanced, and the shield can be that too under the right circumstances, but generally it is both absolutely required (the Vanguard is a bloody brick) and boring for both sides of the fight.
    • Up x 4
  3. xHighHammerx

    By saying “my faction” youve basically lost the argument as you try to defend the faction that you play as main.

    The vanguard is and has been the OP tank in the game since forever. Its an actual noticable fact if you've played every faction for long enough. the tank moves slower than other factions but its certainly not slow, the op shield and op main canons are just madness.

    Im looking at the big picture to improve balance in the game, not favoring or dissing one faction in particular!
  4. TR5L4Y3R

    ..... instead of saying which faction is OP or UP i simply say the faction that seems the least intresting/impressive to me would be TR ... NC and VS have both their intresting toys across classes and vehicles ...

    what does TR have? ... dakka ... and don´t get me wrong dakka is fun and getting the striker and T7 is a no brainer but i feel with TR i am missing something i can´t put my finger on ... i think it´s flashyness ... but i´m not sure ...
    imo besides dakka TR being the traditionalist faction they could still use a bit more explodey flavor in their weapons (like explosive ammo with the dragoon) ...

    one thing i wish for more factionflavor at least for vehicles would be to add the faction specific turrets to the ANT, The sunderer and variants to the lightning as maincannon (allong with ESF nosegun equivalents)

    engineers could have their factionspecific deployable turrtes than standart NS AI and AV mana turret ..
    • Up x 5
  5. LordAnnihilator

    I like this idea. ANTs in particular have exactly one option for AV. And it's the Basilisk. Which is notoriously meh for AV work, which means your main defence against Vehicles is to either carry a few HAs with you or to try and ram them with the turbo. The Sunderer gets Furies and Bulldogs, but they're honestly rather meh. Giving the vehicles their own faction guns would improve their odds in any kind of vehicle fight. As for Lightning, I can see it working. Maybe an artillery rocket launcher for the TR, a charge-up railgun for NC, and... something for Vanu? IDK.
  6. Demigan

    The Vanguard? The most OP gun? What are you talking about?

    You don't kill in one shot, so it is DPS that is more important than the damage per a single shot. The Vanguard overall has the lowest or tied lowest DPS of all 3 MBT's.
    But DPS alone isn't important as fights don't happen in a vacuum. The most common method of attack in the game is driving away from cover, shooting your enemy until you are heavily damaged and then popping back into cover. The Vanguard has the longest chassis, the slowest acceleration and it's turret isn't in the middle but near the back. That means it needs longer to get his gun into view while it's chassis is already exposed for shots. The Magrider has the added advantage of strafing allowing it to show it's thin frontal armor with higher resistances.

    Outmaneuvering then? Nope! The Magrider and Prowler are masters at different maneuvering styles. The Magrider with it's strafing, ability to go over rough terrain that the other tanks wouldn't even consider and stability while firing on the move. The Prowler due to it's combination of speed, acceleration and turnspeed making it the fastest to get around anywhere on the battlefield.

    The Vanguard has 3 whole advantages over the other tanks: a somewhat higher muzzle velocity, a higher health (used to be resistance but the devs decided the Vanguard would require one more repairgun cooldown to fully repair instead) and the shield.
    Unfortunately 2 of those advantages only work when getting hit. In the meantime the advantages of the Prowler and Magrider are always useful. The maneuverability of the Magrider let more use the same cover, let it face with it's front armor, let it outmaneuver others more easily in rougher terrain or escape them. It's ability to reduce the accuracy of the others is also unmistakably powerful: aiming at the center of the Magrider means any hits have to happen on the sides due to it's strafing, and the hitbox on the sides immediately drops to 50% and then lowers off to 1/3 of the center hitbox size. Worse you are effectively only aiming at the left/right side of the Magrider. Having effectively a 25 to 50% smaller hitbox would be a ludicrous advantage for the Vanguard and Prowler, and the Magrider has it. The fact that nowadays it can equip Fire Supression without sacrificing it's afterburner and effectively have the same base health as the Vanguard only solidifies that advantage.
    The Prowler has its speed, its acceleration and its DPS. All great advantages that can be leveraged all the time.
    The Vanguard has tankiness, the shield is even easily baited now since you basically have to pop it early to get the most out of it. Meaning any opposing MBT worth their salt will simply return to cover and repair up while the Vanguard shield fades away and leaves a vastly inferior MBT behind.

    I can agree that the Vanguard shield needs changes. The Vanguard has to equip the shield to barely be the equal to the other two MBT's. Since the game began the Vanguard performance in infantry and vehicle kills has been lowest or tied lowest, rather than this king of vehicle murder that the TR and VS pretend it is.
    Change the shield, remove it even, but give the Vanguard things in return so that its base chassis improves and a vanilla Vanguard can actually go toe-to-toe with the vanilla Magrider/Prowler. Examples:
    The Vanguard gets an auto-granted reverse gear. Allowing it to move faster in reverse, maximum upgrades would allow the Vanguard to accelerate and move as fast backwards as forwards.
    Strong engine+heavy vehicle.
    The Vanguard is the heaviest vehicle with the most horsepower to move it. It would make sense that it would deal more damage when ramming other vehicles. You could also allow it to push all other vehicles away, perhaps even add a nerf to mobility to any vehicles rammed hard by a Vanguard.
    Charge-up weapons.
    The Vanguard supposedly uses railgun technology to accelerate it's slugs, let the player charge up the shot for more muzzle velocity and damage, but effectively lower DPS compared to firing shots instantly. Naturally being able to fire instantly without charge-up is possible to retain a DPS similar to what it has now. Fully charged you could allow shots to pierce enemies and hit enemies behind it as well.
    Standard Sabot ammunition.
    Fire through enemy vehicles and infantry as standard, allowing you to hit vehicles behind or a repair crew. Damage degradation after each successive pierce and a lack of AOE after the first hit are likely smart additions.
    Modular ammunition.
    The standard shell is much smaller, but through nanites they can be fused together into a larger one. This allows the Vanguard to switch to various firing modes. For example you combine multiple shells and let them explode as they exit the barrel, causing a shotgun effect against infantry. Or firing single small shells at auto-canon speeds to deal with light vehicles, or firing a single large shell against heavy vehicles.
    Remote control station.
    As part of the NC fluff they have the motto "if you could have added another weapon, you should have". A remote control station would offer the pilot control over a second weapon with a far higher elevation range. This station can be equipped with various weapons, by default a 30 or 40mm auto-canon with limited magazine designed to deal with aircraft, infantry on high elevations and light vehicles like Harassers.
    Deployable artillery.
    As shown in this picture: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/6d/18/046d18038c4aa196f6ee653f9a7a13be.jpg
    The original concept design let the Vanguard deploy itself. You could let players access a target designator and use it as a light Flail type artillery weapon.
    More idea's from the concept art:
    Close-in burst munitions to deal with nearby infantry and vehicles, creates an umbrella of explosions around the vehicle.
    Deployable digger-tracks. Lets the vehicle climb much steeper inclines, probably at slower max speed and acceleration.
    Co-axial auto-canons for light threats.
    • Up x 2
  7. FLHuk


    2/10 for facts

    9/10 for convincing me you actually believe it.

    Play all three factions sir and or madam. NC main 2012 - 2014....
    • Up x 7
  8. xHighHammerx

    The issue is almost everyone trying to defend the faction they play the most and ignore the fact that factions are not balanced. This is human nature and its just sad!
    • Up x 2
  9. InexoraVC

    NC OP weapons: Gauss Saw
    TR OP weapons: Vulcan, Striker. But LMGs are weak
    VS OP weapons: Betelgeuse
  10. Liewec123

    "NC OP" "VS balanced"
    Trolls are really off their game lately,
    You could atleast try to make it look serious!
    • Up x 2
  11. AllRoundGoodGuy

    [IMG]
    • Up x 4
  12. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Hardly. I have the most time spent on my TR character and I still think you're wrong. Confirmation bias is human nature too, bud.

    I'm seconding what Huk said, you really need to play all three factions.
    • Up x 3
  13. LordAnnihilator



    You serious?

    Sure, we can probably agree factions aren't necessarily balanced (If you take raw data from somewhere like https://ps2alerts.com/, you could say VS OP, but that doesn't take into account other data at all). Sure, general consensus agrees some faction specific things are generally better. But of all the NC "OP" things to declare, you chose... the Vanguard. Arguably the worst, and most shafted, of the MBTs. When they handed out shiny new toys to the MBTs, what did they get?
    • VS got Magburner by default, an instant recharge on magburner that also disrupts lock-ons, and an improved ability to move side to side while burning, also with a magburner charge time reduction. The Magrider is the king of moving around fast and getting into weird places, as well as a smaller profile, and the arguable main downside is no side-to-side rotation on the main gun.
    • TR got lockdown by default, an ability that buffs their main cannon reload speed by 30%, and an ability that projects a hardlight shield in front of the tank while deployed. The Prowler has excellent maneuverability, though worse than the floating Magrider, and its two shot main cannon gives it superior DPS to the other tanks a lot of the time, plus the best sniping ability.
    • NC got... no changes to their "signature" ability, and a new defence slot, the Numbnutz Reactor, that is widely considered an utter waste of certs and literally inferior to Nanite Auto Repair. The Vanguard has 1000 extra hitpoints compared to the other tanks and has the highest single shot damage. But its outclassed by the dual shot nature of the Prowler in terms of raw damage per reload, is horribly unmaneuverable, and its ability, while potent and rendering you invincible, is rendered useless if your enemy disengages or if you cant kill them before it runs out.
    So yeah, suffice to say, the Vanguard is statistically (and according to the many fine folks in this thread with more experience than I) worse off than the other two MBTs in a one on one comparison. If you're going to argue NC is OP, please pick something that actually has some truth to it.

    Edit: So I did some checking on Voidwell: https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4008&startDate=2020-12-27&endDate=2021-06-26

    Disregarding the weird patches of missing data, considering all the AP guns (aka the guns widely considered the meta pick for everything aside from infantry farming) the Vanguard easily fares worst off by a fair margin, while the Prowler tends to be the best, though the Magrider is very close competition. I suspect checking the other guns data will provide a similar result. The Vanguard, compared to the other MBTs using nothing but player KPU data, is Underpowered.
    • Up x 3
  14. Mechwolf

    Unless they've changed bulldogs recently, I've noticed it has more DPS than the fury and basilisk, unless you're talking specifically long range AV
  15. Mechwolf

    They also have the best shell velocity by far, making their AT rounds best at anti air, and easiest to lead at distance
  16. LordAnnihilator

    The MBT main cannons shouldn't HAVE to be used for AA. But they're literally our best option for swatting ESFs, which honestly says more about the state of AA currently than anything.

    Also the muzzle velocity difference between the Titan AP (https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Titan-150_AP) and the P2-120 AP (https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/P2-120_AP) is 25m/s in the Vanguards favour (275 vs 250), which honestly isn't that much, and Anchored Mode blows the Vanguards muzzle velocity out of the water, with a whopping 50% Boost resulting in a muzzle velocity of 375 m/s. The P2-120 AP also still one shots ESFs despite its split damage and has the advantage of a second shot, meaning it is the Prowler that is the best at long range and anti-air thanks to Anchored Mode.
    • Up x 4
  17. AuricStarSand

    As a pro Magrider player. I find Vanguards to do the worst out of the tanks. Prowlers once they figure out they can out-dps & out-hp magriders, they just storm around, winning most 1on1's with gatekeeper 2nd gunner. Vanguards have shields, tho it mostly plays a role for like roads or hossin. Vanguard is the best close range 1v1 tank tho, like if you ran into a nearby tank head-on, vanguard would be the worst to go against.

    Anyhow.

    NC have the best Max's - best heatseeking AV for max, neat hand shields, best AI gun now after the update - which has as good or better range than vs max's, also best close range AI too.

    TR have best Esf's (& pilots), plus harrasser gun (vulcan 1st, mljornir 2nd, saron 3rd / I don't even use saron on harrasser - it's essentially a halburd's range with less dps = doesn't fill a role)

    I don't know who tr or nc, who has the best Pistols, but it's def not vs.

    I don't even use vs Carbines, ns carbines are better. puslar c is ok, still rather use ns. I'd assume nc & tr have better carbines than vs, since I don't even use vs carbines - after years of playing.

    LMG's. Godsaw, Butcher, & Betelguese are all pretty even. Godsaw can shoot armor tho. All have good accuracy. Godsaw is the only 1 that has sniped me like a sniper for a lmg tho. Overall still all pretty even. Also people need to stop bringing up directive lmg's - as a reason to compare factions. 99% of the players don't even play or have a aurax'd LMG.

    People bring up Lasher for vs often, but Thumper is literally just a good, if you say it's not, you haven't played it enough. Also it barely gets use, only good for door fight or biolabs, 80% of the time, that's not a thing.

    Assualt rifles: I don't know, even enough.

    Shotguns: I don't know, vs shotgun is clunky tho & very slow, like Diemos. I'm sure other factions have better shotguns.

    Snipers: Even enough

    SMG's: VS's Canis is good. Other than that, the other factions seem to believe they have better SMG's than vs does.

    MBT is more about preference & personal skill, than it is about comparing the tanks. Also each excell in diff maps. Which tank has a killstreak, mainly depends on the player, not the tank. As I note the names of the people, who man the tanks that steamroll me or others. Its usually the same pros, everytime.

    Overall I'd say NC have slightly better stuff than the other 2 factions, if you do the math. As some factions are lacking in some department (like vs with it's pistols / no alternative harrasser gun to the halberd) (or tr just needing more flavor).

    HA Launchers: TR have the best, those dumbfire launchers have the top dps. NC's phoenix is ok, people don't use it much, but it actually does more dmg than people act like it does (& destroys back of the line armor that people are repairing). VS don't have any special launchers, pretty sure (the one they have is a particle charging cannon, but nobody uses it & its not good)

    Still even with more well-rounded equipments. NC still loses the most by having less vets & serious point grabbing platoon leaders. Their usually unorganized farmers. Till this robo update atleast, now everyone is winning equally.
  18. JibbaJabba

    Let me introduce you to my signature.

    Now let me introduce you to reality: The factions are amazingly balanced. The sore spots are few and far between, and most importantly: spread among all 4.
  19. AllRoundGoodGuy

    [IMG]

    Mithril still around pog.
  20. Botji

    I want to again say that when everyone compares statistics on the MBTs and claim the Vanguard is preforming worse than the other tanks, it is also the tank with the most 'uniques' = more players using it which is not too much of a stretch to say that it has more 'casual' users as well unless anyone wants to argue that NC have the highest population of hardcore tankers(TR are usually not far behind on the total number of uniques though)?

    On the flipside the Magrider typically has the least unique users, by a large margin, like in the 20% or larger margin(around 40% if you only look on faction MBT AP guns), which again I feel its not a huge stretch to say that it means the % of hardcore tankers in those numbers are equally much higher than the other factions, given that there is no reason to believe the factions dont have a similar total number of hardcore tankers = Magrider weapon stats are a bit inflated as there are far less casual Maggie drivers around to pull them down but this is rarely if ever taken into consideration when talking about how well the Magriders are doing... as if its not a higher % of sweaty tryhards using them than the other MBTs :D




    As for the Vanguard shield, yep, its actually OP no matter what anyone says. You either dont know how to use it and think its bad or you know its frickin amazing and can use it, no other tank can be at 1/3 health and just slap a full health MBT around by pressing a button. Vanguards can. Most or all complaints about the shield not being super strong is people not using it correctly or plain user error from start to end and even borderline godmode does not help that, not all the time anyway.

    "They just hide and wait for the shield to end!"
    Guess who messed up the shield timing or just judged the situation wrong?
    If you cant get to the enemy before they do too much damage that the shield does not matter or force you to use the shield before you can force them to fight you with it on, you did an oopsie and should not have done that move. Not the Vanguards or the shields problem. If they are able to effectively kite you or its too far away the answer is to just go hide behind some cover yourself and either go fight somewhere else or wait for them to come to you.

    "I had to use the shield or I would have died and now they are hunting me down! This tank is bad!"
    You either walked into a well laid trap, got randomly caught in a really crappy position with literally 0 cover for you and good cover/terrain for them or oopsied yourself into that situation. Happens to every vehicle and not a problem unique to the Vanguard or shield.

    "Its only good if they shoot the front armor, they can just drive around me and ignore it!"
    ... I mean, no, even the side armor enjoys a nice 34% damage reduction which ends up being 19% damage reduction after countering the -15% that side armor gets as standard, you are still quite a lot tankier than they are and its not like they can keep on your side for very long unless you let them since the game considers which armor facing is taking damage by using expanding cones going out from your tank, as long as the Vanguard is sort of kinda pointing at the enemy, its the front armor being hit even if they are actually 'hitting' the side of the tank. Just turn or reverse turn and you are golden with the 67% front damage reduction. Now I know someone will scream "MAGRIDERS!" but even a Magrider cant keep on your side for any considerable duration but if they can, they obviously didnt come from your front having to use boost to get around you, so this counts as a user oopsie since you let them flank you from the start and they have plenty of boost to move around with. Good news though, unlike the Prowler which is basically dead at this point the Vanguard has a very real fighting chance still so again, better off than most even with you messing up.

    These are the most common complaints/reasons I have seen for why people think the Vanguard/shield is bad on the forums but most of it is just bad excuses for why its not your own fault you died.
    The most common mistake I see people do in the game itself is they use the shield as some sort of panic reaction. "Oh NO! I took damage! I might not even know where it came from!" *SMASH DAT BUTTON*

    The Vanguard can happily take a beating and still easily be the winner as long as it has the shield.

    Vanguards trying to rush a enemy MBT more often than not pop their shield right away as they are being shot at because they dont want to take damage while driving closer and want to stay as near to full health as long as possible, giving the enemy the go ahead to just avoid them until the shield runs out(Shield activated at 'long' range). A Vanguard can happily take a beating driving closer to a enemy MBT and honestly should take the damage and be happy because more likely than not you will bait the enemy to stay where they are, thinking they are killing you but only letting you get close.

    I mean a 50% Vanguard is 3000 health, add 67% damage reduction and you triple that health, meaning they have to do 9000 damage to kill you. At 1/3 or ~33% health a Vanguard has 2000 health, with the shield active thats 6000 damage to kill the Vanguard. Yeah, a Vanguard with 2000 health left that pops their shield is the same as a full health Vanguard without the shield as long as the Vanguard point their front in your general direction. Its absurd. "Not strong" Ha! Learn how to use it instead of complaining that a borderline godmode is not good enough when it can allow a near burning Vanguard to make a comeback against a full health MBT going in for the kill.

    Thats my little rant over, I hope none of you nay-sayers learn because I dont need any more competent Vanguards driving around, even the bad ones are 'bad' enough having to deal with their bs shield. Though when I play NC I sure wish more people would follow up on any pushes I do instead of rolling their thumbs behind cover, getting nothing done. NC dont seem to realize how close they are to being nearly unstoppable on the ground if only the randoms could form up into a push but oh well, perhaps better this way.