So, I didn't want to post this but I feel I have to. I run a small outfit with under 10 members. I have noticed that the Outfit resource system for smaller outfits is clearly screwed even with the threshold being lowered to 1,000. Here are a few examples from just today; So, I was ghost capping a Base and had my sunder set up at the base next to the base I was capping to help cap the bigger base while ghosting the smaller 1 point base. I capped the entire base with out help until 20 seconds before the cap finished, even killing 2 TR players with bouncing betties. Being honest I think it was the same guy killed twice as there was little resistance. As this was a 1 point base and I capped the point, hacked all the terms, placed traps to ensure I could solo cap if needed my points were around 600 with me on the point for over 50% of the cap. In the last 20 seconds of the cap, a large outfit showed up, set up a sunder spawned all their guys at it (getting a few 1,000 points in just a few seconds) ran to the point and killed one guy. Not only did they get the dominate outfit when 95% of the cap was done solo by another outfit's player, but I got no outfit resources at all due to 2 kills, all of the 1 point cap, and terminal hack being only worth 600 points. Yet, another today; At a larger base I rushed the point flipping it on an engi, with many other outfits involved. Did about 30 resupplies, repaired another outfit's max, got 3 kills, and was on the point the entire time bar about 12 seconds near the middle of the cap when I jumped out of the room to avoid the grenades'.. I had gotten around 800 points. One of my outfit members showed up in the last third of the cap, to heal the sunder on site belonging to another outfit and returning fire to the enemies attacking it. It was a pretty clean cap, and I was involved with point A from start to finish, and present on the point the entire cap. With my outfit member doing what he could to keep the spawn point up for the cap. Due to the point threshold our outfit got no outfit resources at all for the cap despite being involved from start to finish with objectives and protecting the spawn point when it was attacked. This is clearly a bit absurd, and questionable in regards to it being even remotely fair to smaller outfits. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if our outfit got something from capping, but we got nothing at all due to the current point threshold. There is also no way to say that it is due to our outfit not doing enough, because this nonsense is clearly still the case when 95% of the entire cap is done by a small outfit. With a large outfit only showing up in the last 20 seconds, and getting points mainly from just spawning their entire outfit rather than actually being involved in the cap itself. Thus, I must say that it is clearly a glaring issue, and wholly unfair to smaller outfits without question. Please devs do something about this glaring issue, with small outfits being very unfairly disadvantaged in the current system. If there is some reason to claim this is not unfair, what exactly am I to do? Furthermore, how exactly is the cap score for outfit resources calculated? I ask mainly because doing 95% of the entire cap alone, is apparently less valuable than setting up a sunder last second, and just spawning the entirety of a large outfit's online players.
It's just more proof how badly the outfit system was designed. The idea that outfits automatically mean teamwork is the root of the problem, a root that has taken a stranglehold on both developers and players. Just asking for extra non-outfit teamplay is negatively received even if it changes nothing to outfits, squads or platoons. This thinking goes so far that if you suggest something for teamplay, players will actively ask for this to be removed from any player not in a squad, platoon or outfit. Then they turn around and complain that randoms don't contribute to the team. Well if the devs focused more on unrestricted teamplay elements rather than just restricted one's it would work! Bonus points if they actually looked at the game's design and made sure everything actually reinforced the core MMOFPS side of the game rather than the badly designed tic-tac-toe level strategy elements that were carelessly tacked on later in the game's lifecycle and heavily focused on by the devs right now.
Correct more or less. I for one don't think giving more to outfit play is bad, and I am NOT advocating for getting rid of the outfit RSS system. However, I do think over restricting in a manner that is clearly an issue for anyone playing the game without 10 to 20 people online from their outfit at all times in the exact same squad, is a problem. "Restricted team play VS Unrestricted team play" as you so aptly put it. This issue is only compounded when there is a clear power benefit in game which can/does cause a serious unbalancing of the game it self. I don't think there is one person whom has used outfit gear in this game who will say that an anvil for a sunder, let alone the bastion fleet carrier has no power benefit in the game. My outfit does at times manage to pull out the fleet carrier. We in fact have one in storage right now. However, to save that RSS it requires that we get 3 or 4 people online, and ghost cap with one of those 3 or 4 as a watch to ensure other larger outfits can't/don't jump on us last second. This results in our outfit not only needing to play 100% reliant on ghost capping to be even remotely competitive but it results in our outfit needing to treat our own faction as enemies when we do it. We legit had to make "Ghost cap Wednesday" just to get our outfit gear. We have legit had to blow up an allied sunder on at least 1 instance when they were coming in the last 20 seconds of a cap due to us having under 1,000 points in a cap we did alone. It is something all of us are very much unhappy about, and it is very demoralizing to put it mildly. That isn't even going into the clear issues regarding over all game play from such a situation. I don't think there is anyone who can't see the clear issue with this. I am advocating for perhaps fixing that, as it is a glaring issue. I think if a large outfit can contribute 1% of what a small outfit does to a cap, and the small outfit can get nothing for it while the large one can get the initial outfit RSS and the ticks too that is a glaring issue. I am not even saying that I care that much if we didn't get the ticks from dominate outfit. Mainly, as it could make a fair score system very hard on the devs. I however, think getting nothing in such cases is absurd. This is on the level of when WoW raid bosses chests were wholly based on last hits. Which resulted in many raid members leaving last second, the raid party, and then last hitting the raid boss. That one player could/would than take all of the raid loot. Even if they spent the entire raid until then leaching and just following the group without taking part. Due wholly to the issues in how the game worked.
I'm honestly not very good at FPS, but when I log in off of my outfit's main hours I'm able to get the 1000 point threshold on my own fairly often. I'll admit that I don't like the meta to score the points it actually counts, but it's less to do with outfit size than you may think. Basically, damaging enemies counts, supporting allies doesn't. Don't hack things, destroy them, it counts for more. If it's a ghost cap, go around c4ing all the turrets. This counts score for you and denies this score to others. Shooting bad guys counts, healing, repairing, reviving and resupplying don't count. Claiming points counts, defending them doesn't. So, the meta to claim a base is to be a selfish, irresponsible f*ck boy. Don't protect points, let the plebs do that. If it falls, move back and reclaim it. Press the spawn, get kills, steal kills, blow stuff up, and do absolutely nothing useful for any team mate. If you do these things you will claim bases. Just remember that the lead dev is a Vanu light assault, and play accordingly.
I forgot to mention one other thing. If no points are scored, as is common with the one minute bases, capture credit goes to the most recent arrival. The tie break is designed to reward credit stealing. You will often see ESFs show up right as the territory flips. This is no accident, it is intentional base stealing. What you have to do is wait for 20 seconds to make sure there isn't going to be a fight, then "tag out" of the territory (think basketball half court), then come back in at the final couple seconds. You will see some allied ESF showing up, move behind him so you are the most recent arrival at the base cap you started.
This is great info, thank you very much! It is just very annoying and depressing that this is the case. However, I suppose if they want to actively make people bad at the game, then we can do this just for farming the points once or twice a week so we can play normally the rest like we do currently. It will at least bring up my members morale knowing we don't have to blow up allied units just to keep them from stealing our credit. It will allow us to be competitive without having to feel like dicks. That being said, playing this way will still make us dicks but at least it won't feel as bad as blowing up allied units. Again thank you very much for the info! It means a lot!
When did your story take place? Spawns do not contribute any more for almost a year. Since pretty early on only kills and destroying things count, as well as point capping. Ammo, repairs, healing, reviving, spawns (you know, the stuff without which any battle would end rather soon and all caps would be impossible) are all pointless when it comes to capture score. That said, as a member of a small outfit you really have to punch way above your weight pretty much consistently to get anything done. Being there, doing that. Not easy, not paprticularly fun when you have to really scrap for every little point. But getting a base with 3 people when BHO is dumping 40 on it is quite rewarding... All I can give in recommendation until that is fixed is the following: 1) Be strategic. Don't go for the bigger bases unless absolutely necessary. They draw the big competition more than the smaller ones, when there are options, at least. 2) Be early. Get Valkyries and get in first, cap the point(s), destroy terminals and turrets before the enemy even spawns. This gives you some points, denies the bigger outfits those points and helps you, as the base's infrastructure is now gone. 3) Be crafty. Set yourself up near the enemy spawnpoints and put a detector device near. You will know when they spawn and can waylay them before the bigger outfits will even know of their presence - hopefully. If you don't expect any enemies to spawn yet, stay near the point to get the little pointholding ticks, as they do count for capture score. 4) Be careful. Don't overextend and don't take too great risks. Having a respawn timer of 15 sec and then a walking path (or even worse, need for transport) will give your point earnings a hard hit, usually, and an opportunity for the competition to move up.
Johannes Kaiser are you sure about the point defense? I'm sure I've seen that not give points. That's why I leave the points and return if they flicker. Taking an enemy point is 425 plus any kills, but I thought defending points is unscored as well as making you an easy target.
It It was just the other week. It seems to be that bonus that RabidBM brought up. We did a test last night following his advice, and played like selfish dicks. We got and held 2 bases as the dom outfit. One was green 5 and the other was blue 8. We legit filled our RSS in blue twice over. We also got 110 green and went from 3 purple to 27 in a night with just 3 members. We got the initial outfit RSS 9/10 base fights even in any base we contested and/or helped contest/ We were competing with a outfit that had 12 people on site, as well as 4 smaller outfits with 1 to 3 people on site, with the blue 8. However, we managed to be the dom outfit. There was a fight last night over a low purple base. Where the large outfit taking part actively did everything to fail the cap and try again no less than 3 times, due to us having a high chance of being the dom outfit on it if it finished. One of their guys even went as far as to run over one of mine and try to run over all of us more than once with their sunder. on the 3rd cap. Only on the 4th cap did they let it go through. It was actually funny to put it mildly. It just sucks that we had to play in a way that was bad for the actual cap to do it. We noted that more contests where we played this way failed than we are used to. From 1 point bases to 3 point bases this was consistent. However, we did loads of outfit RSS. So, thanks RabidBM,
I am 100% certain, yes. Been on bases where that was our only advantage due to no turrets and no terminals that were easy to reach. But being there 2 min earlier and getting a little head start in pointhold-ticks. But I'd really be overjoyed if the devs decided to switch up the system a bit to. Unfortunately, average performance (combined points of all members divided by their number) would mean only the tryhard-fits would get bases, so it's also not an ideal solution. Better might be a suggestion someone made elsewhere, having the 2-3 most contributing outfits get full resources, while the best one gets the name on the base.
Thanks for your advice The other day by the way. We tried it the other night with 3 people and it worked amazing. Got initial Rss in 9/10 bases. Even took and held as the dom outfit 2 bases that were being capped and contested by 3 to 6 outfits. Did get a big outfit with 12 people on site pissed off though. They had to purposely fail the cap like 3 times and started running us over with their sunder due to us having a high chance of being dom outfit on the small purple that was being fought over lol.
I think we should only have the score from the top 15 of the allied faction count towards the cap, zergfits capping bases through sheer number is frustrating to say the least
The problem with what you are saying isn't the outfit resource aspect at all. You are looking for something "FAIR". None of this has to be fair to anyone, its why it's a game. The game should not and hopefully never will cater to what is fair. Rather than ghost cap for cheap resources, go to a large fight and dominate, that way when you get the resources and maybe even the base cap you can feel you actually accomplished something rather than wait for someone to make it fair for you. smfh.
As usual they built a resource system in the Outfits controlled by the few and left the vast majority out. More than half the players don’t even utilize the system. So only the top few exploits rewards that really aren’t that great and feel completely incomplete.
