Cyrious made a video about Skilled Players

I stopped reading right there. Wikipedia, I mean come on.

Pull out cheating definition from wikipedia:

"now that I have proven everyone but me is hacking..."


lol dude really is delusional


Yeah man, it's luck, we've all pulled off shots like this. It's rare, that's why its in a montage. Really not rocket science

Most skilled players know how to turn corners, which blind zones to check, and where they are vulnerable to snipers. When new players runs out into the open and are shot down immediately, in principle they have contributed by giving team-mates information on enemy troop locations.

In the end though, a high K/D is not just attributable to skill but also the PC rig of the player. A player with 180 FPS has a clear advantage over players with 40 FPS, and there are many players who game on laptops and low-end hardware yet manage to contribute by defending/attacking spawn points, constructing bases, and doing other support roles where effectivness is not as correlated to FPS.

Because you use your ignorance as your guide, demonstrated in a statement like this, "You could do the same jump 10.000 times and most likely you would never hit the victim like he did", what you really mean to say is that you cannot do that jump and hit that player even if you tried 10,000 times.

I actually think you could though if you took the time to learn how quick-scoping works in PS2. When you do it right you essentially fire as if scoped and the fired shot is really accurate. There was even a time when the Railjack was perfectly accurate because of how its fire delay interacted with quick-scoping.

Seriously, dude, between the conspiracy theories where RPG is protecting and catering to cheaters and seeing "sutble cheaters" everywhere you gotta take a step back before you end up startling at every shadow believing it is out to get you.

No, I add the "most likely" to acknowledge the ever so slight chance that the shot would hit, as it is also quantified. Unfortunately quickscoping does not work while airborne. As I am open to discussion based on sound, rational arguments, if you have any proof of there being a low amount of cheaters in this game it would be more interesting than ad-hominens (goes for the two posts above too).

You are asking someone to disprove the negative of the accusation YOU are making. You are the one saying cheaters are rampant so the responsibility of proof rests on you.

I'm not making any accusations? I state my opinion w/ backing justification for it, but you seem to call me dillusional and hence, implicitly want me to submit to the your common opinion. It would be nice to see some backing justification is what I'm saying. Also as to the "conspiracy" of DBG allowing subtle cheaters, I mean to highlight the fact that "doing what's right" on DBGs behalf would also mean less revenue and maybe someone losing their job in the process. I personally don't trust them enough to say that "I am 100% positively sure that DBG would ban any and all detected cheaters swiftly".

You are not making accusations then what exactly are you doing?

I did not call you delusional that was someone else. But, at this point I have to agree with them because you speak in circles and demand others prove the antithesis of your accusations and seem to consider the lack of proof to the negative to be proof of the positive.

It seems as we have come to a halt at the point where neither perspective can be proven or disproven. What I'm against is labeling one side as badmouthers and conspiracy theorists, or cast the other as the normative one on the basis of trust and emotional appeals. As I've encountered multiple opponents in this game who in my subjective experience probably are subtle cheaters, I'm leaning towards the perspective that the game does in fact have mutliple cheaters that are not banned for some reason that may very well be an economical one.

"It seems as we have come to a halt at the point where neither perspective can be proven or disproven." Yeah, that's not going to fly. Plus, your appeals to rational discussion falls flat on its behind since you want to argue on a different set of rules. It is impossible to argue against your personal feelings, experiences, and biases since you just retreat back into "it is just an opinion" the moment someone calls you out. I'm personally a great believer in innocent util proven otherwise. Mostly because it is fair and just but also because eyewitness accounts are incredibly unreliable since we (or you in this case) tend to fill in whatever blanks there are with whatever it is you thought you saw.

I mean, in my personal opinion there are pixies living in shoes, the media just doesn't tell you about it since they're in cahoots with the shoemaking industry. You see, they subtly wear your shoes down so you have to buy new ones. I'm just a guy who's trying to get this out there so we can stand and fight this pixie threat and deal with them once and for all. I know I can't give you any proof but since you can't disprove my claim, my feelings tell me pixies are real so they are. SPREAD THE WORD EVERYONE! EVERYONE MUST KNOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

We just gotta accept that it is just as likely there are pixies ruining shoes as the natural state of decay/wear and tear is affecting our shoes. We can never know the truth! Let's just agree to disagree... Both outcomes are exactly equally likely, right?

TL;DR: What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I KNEW IT! THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH!

I heard the head Pixie is a member of the white house staff and that secret Pro Pixie groups censor the internet anytime a pixie is talked about! That's not to even get into how the big shoe corps give billions to the pro pixie groups so they can all go to shoe design school so they only design shoes that are at least $100!!!!!


I know a lot of shenanigans goes on in politics and corporations and so on. But that **** was funny.

....a few posts earlier....

What an oxymoron. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Nothing in your previous statements is even borderline reasonable. What you claimed defies logic, and you've provided not a single shred of evidence to remotely support these unsound statements. Yet on the other hand, you confirmed yourself earlier that there is evidence cheaters are minimal (I'm referring to the 6 confirmed hitbox cheaters mentioned earlier). I'm confused you ask for more, while your "proof" that there even are cheaters in the game remains as subtle as your "cheaters".


No, something cyriously isn't right with you.

Also what on earth was subtle about that shot?!??!??!?!??!?!

I know what a cheater is, and I know how to identify them. Let me say right off the bat there is no such thing as subtle cheating/hacking whatever. Anything manipulated can be noticed, no matter how "subtle" you think it is. I don't really think you can argue that you even have a basic understanding on how to cheat or detect cheaters.

This is an argument that will go on forever.

Judging by reddit, Soltech is a pretty dreadful place to be due to the sheer volume of cheaters openly advertising their latest multi-functional warez on QQ (nothing has changed there).

As for Cyrious, his intentions are clearly honorable - i've never really had a problem with folks saying 'no cheating problem in PS2' purely to ensure continued survival of the game.


I do have issue with his view that Cheaters are black or white - they are either utterly obvious (because, well, there's no point in denying when faced with irrefutable proof ) otherwise they are simply 'good players' so stop your moaning.
I struggle to understand how intelligent people cannot comprehend there is a grey in there too - it's belittling the hack writers themselves to be honest; how successful would a hack be if it ensured nigh on 100% HSR ? Likewise a hack forcing your Sunderer to fly ? Or a hack that forces you to move at double-speed ?

These people do appear - most often to advertise (again check reddit) - but they are dealt with. They are obvious because they want to be.

Even a simple lag switch is the very epitome of subtle - you don't need to use it all the time (in fact this would be a very bad idea !) - you just need to use it when the time is right. You can use it occasionally and get away with it forever.

I don't doubt that there are cheaters out there but when you start to accuse everyone who is good at the game of cheating, or that they're a part of some shadowy cabal of cheaters, more than that who are then also supported by RPG. That goes from "yeah, fair enough" to "are you mental, mate?" real quick.

Just because someone could be cheating doesn't mean they do. It can easily spiral out of control to the point where you see cheaters everyone and never accept you got outplayed. I think it is kind of funny to get ragetells and hackusations but it really isn't a good thing for the individuals who are stuck in such behavioural loops. Examples of this is, "how did you know I was there?", "how did you know how to go there?", "you were aiming where I was before I entered the room", "it is impossible to be that accurate, reported" and bla bla bla.

But that is the exact problem: The player getting killed isn't being rewarded. He dies, but he doesn't get the score for the kill. At best his allies see it, kill the enemy (that the experienced players should have an idea of being around that corner anyway) and eventually capture the base, giving a measely amount of XP.

The entire game is skewed in it's goals and rewards system. For players who pursue the "goal" of the game of capturing the bases you are encouraged to avoid combat, zerg your enemies and make fighting you so unfun that they leave. The other option is to try and go for score and unlocking stuff. The easiest things to score and unlock? Kills and murder which count for most of the directives and all the auraxing of the weapons.

The game needs an entirely new structure for it's goals and rewards, if only to make sure that players who try to achieve the goal of the game are encouraged to create enjoyable, fun fights rather than avoid them. Players should also be rewarded more collectively, that player that actively dies so someone else can break through and score kills should get as much reward out of it as the guy who waited for someone else's sacrifice. This can for example be done by letting players "collect" ticks from nearby players, which are periodically given to the player. This way a Medic can collect kill-ticks from the people he revives and heals, while the player defending the Medic can earn heal-ticks etc. Teamwork should be key.
Creating a structure for these rewards is also vital. The current structure is "either kill stuff or avoid fights and capture bases". That's not a very good structure. Especially a new player should feel rewarded for completing tasks despite being killed, and slowly learn the basics of the game. A veteran player should see about high-risk, high reward stuff where a newby could potentially kick his butt despite the skill difference, but the reward would be worth it. Have a lot of different tasks inbetween as well.
To take the previous example of the Forwards Station: It's relatively easy to place one somewhere, it's harder to place it in a good spot. Defending it is relatively easy (if you pick the right spot at least) while taking it out is hard. It also rewards players for using different skillsets so they don't have to rely on murder for everything.

This is either a subtle cheat, or a problem in the way the game works.

When you ADS, you see the crosshair shrink to a point. But potentially the size of the crosshair could be pinpoint the instant you press the ADS button. If you fire in that instant you could shoot with 100% accuracy, which is why quick-scoping would be so powerful. It gives an unfair advantage to single-shot high-damage weapons and should be fixed.

The problem with the clip: He's in the air. Even in ADS your minimum crosshair is rather large, key word "minimum". It can't go down below that just like your crosshair can't go below a certain point while running. To pull off that shot is indeed a microscopic chance, unless ofcourse the game somehow misses the minimum crosshair size for a fraction of a second and the player simply uses a Macro to fire virtually instantly upon doing ADS before the game catches up.
That does leave one question: Doing ADS in the air is no longer possible since 2015 right? You get thrown out of ADS and can't re-engage ADS until you get on the ground again. So how would he be able to ADS in the first place? That would mean he's hipfiring... And to hit that shot is more on the lines of 1 in a million, not just to hit the target but to hit his head.

Didn't you say your job is to catch hackers? Now you say that people can go unnoticed forever? Remind me to never hire your services.

Thankfully, we are dealing with machines here. Computers operate on black and white. To human eyes, a cheater may appear subtle - and still, it's really not hard to discern that someone is artificially landing 50% of their headshots, or whatever else you accuse these "subtle" cheaters of doing. Sure, some may go unnoticed to human eyes. The computer however doesn't care. If someone is modifying files, using third party programs, or whatever else these "subtle" cheaters do, they've still modified something. They are a foreign element in the system, and that is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, detectable.

I'm sure you're already familiar with this given your background, but hackers are always identifiable. To the computer system they are infiltrating, it is black and white. Something has either been manipulated, or hasn't. There is no 'its been manipulated but just a little bit so it doesn't count'. What may appear as a simple, subtle change to untrained eyes, is completely detectable in the system. And this is partly why hackers won't even attempt to hide their tracks, because its literally impossible to do so. The only serious issue is how long it takes to find these hackers, and kick them out of the system before they find something they shouldn't. Hackers can be spotted by the system, but there needs to be people who chase them down and counter them before anything happens. The time varies greatly, although action is usually taken under 24-36 hours.

Ofc, the game isn't a million dollar website, but it's the same principle, and even easier to monitor. The term "subtle cheater" is a myth coined by those who don't even have a basic understanding of how such technology operates. IT IS BLACK AND WHITE!!!!!! The whole nature of these things operating on binary is black and white. High or low. 0 or 1. There is no 0.0000001 or 0.9999999999. It's one value or the other.

It's not that we are intelligent people and you're not. We have taken the time to develop an understanding of what we are discussing. You have not. This demonstrates an ignorance that bleeds out through your posts. I'm sure if you take some time to gather knowledge on the matter (maybe actually read some of these "intelligent people's posts", you'll come to understand why "intelligent" people only see black or white.

While there are cheaters out there - I have myself encountered some, they are extremely few and dealt with usually under a day. You could seriously play the game for years without encountering one.

There really aren't enough to justify threads other than "__________ is cheating, here is a video of him doing it, please ban". Even then, it's meant to go through CS, but whatever. Threads that attempt to place cheating as the game's main problem are quite silly. But when it gets to the conspiracies of subtle cheaters and DBG protecting cheaters, we cross the borderline delusions into fantasy land.

You're right, in this case it can not be possible to have mentally sound person on the other side of the screen. And that's a big issue as cyrious explained. It's easy for newer players to fall into the trap of these people, and start blaming their mistakes as well on cheaters, when in fact Planetside 2 has far less of a cheating issue than most modern games.

I'll answer that one for you. Yes, it's completely possible to ads in the air. Ofc, it's buggy as like everything else in the game, but you can try it as a light assault, a heavy, whatever. ADS, then jump/fly/fall/whatever and you should stay ADS.

I once fell out a valk, and while falling looked up, hipfired my s1 which proceed to slam into the reaver that was chasing shooting at my friendlies valk. Idk what the probability of landing that shot was, considering I was freefalling, and the reaver at a considerable distance moving fast in an unpredictable pattern. I'm guessing it would be in the ballpark of that sniper shot that was linked.

It definitely wasn't my skill, I'll admit that. According to you guys, it wouldn't be luck either, because there's too little probability of that thing happening to someone (hold up, isn't that what luck is??) so I guess I must've been cheating subtly? So subtle I must not even have noticed.

I know you didn't say it, but you're both in the same mindset. I find it interesting/scary that people who claim there's no such thing as black and white then proceed to make black and white statements like this. 'He could have ONLY been cheating". I won't even go in detail explaining the other reasonable deductions, of what could have made this shot possible. Based on your statement, which do you think it is? A problem/feature with the game, or a "subtle' cheater that pulled off a not-so-subtle shot?