When's TR actually getting a MBT?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MoistDoctor, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. MoistDoctor

    Been playing the game for a short while and I've dabbled with every faction's MBT and without a doubt TR's seems like a joke, not to mention the easiest to kill. While the Prowler comes with a bonus "Passive system" it doesn't really seem or feel like that much a power boost. Both the Vanguard and Magrider have a lot less bullet drop compared to the Prowler, to a point where Deploy mode is more of an essential as oppose power boost. Lets not forget that means again killing them is even easier cause they don't move. Playing against Prowlers feels hilarious as well as their "power" is locked behind landing 2 shots instead of 1 vs every other tank in the game, Prowler missing just one of those shots is pretty much a game over for the tank in terms of trading. In terms of MBT 'specials' TR also has the worst of it. Magriders with boost and a way to cheese boost for a 2nd boost and move sideways while boosting, not to mention baseline strafing gives Magrider so much evasion that when play well effectively multiplies it's HP/survivability. Vanguard has its super tank shield, on top of its standard 1k more hp and an option to trade that 1k hp to a regenerative 1k shield, while I've never seen anyone use it, onpaper still a pretty neat idea. Now the Prowler, Deploy mode to give it faster projectiles and equal bullet drop to other MBT's. Barrage, increase reload speed on the slowest reloading tank in the game to once again just to make it equal to other MBTs, Rampart Projector, gives the front more armor but turns the stationary Prowler hit box into the double the size. Outside the faster projectiles from Anchor mode, there's nothing the Prowler excels at compared to other MBT's, and the specials it has I can't even call them a buff, more like a crutch to put the Prowler at 'even' playing field stats. I had talked to some older players in the game about MBT's and apparently Prowlers used to be nasty infantry killers back when splash damage was good, but that was nerfed however long ago and the Prowler lost the 1 thing it was good at. IDK if I'm missing something, but both playing on TR and VS TR the Prowler just doesn't feel like it fits the role for a MBT at all, seems too much of a immobile ''glass cannon'' to be called a MBT, though can't even really call it a cannon when our Vanguards make a bigger boom than Prowlers do.
  2. Demigan

    This has been discussed to death and I could rip every bit of your post apart, instead I'll just do this:

    The muzzle velocity and shell drop of the Magrider and Prowler is the exact same and Vanguard has a slight edge due to 25m/s more velocity for each shot with the same shell drop not "the other two factions have a lot less bullet drop" as you proclaim.

    Almost everything in your post is as wrong as that claim. Go do your homework on the subject and dont throw your confirmation bias in our face.
    • Up x 8
  3. JustGotSuspended

    The prowler definitely got nerfed hard than it should. It's currently the worst tank, although vanguards aren't much better. Magriders are the only mbt worth pulling, that said, lightnings/harassers would be a better choice.
    • Up x 1
  4. OneShadowWarrior

    I gave up on TR, there is a reason why I have 1 TR character but 2 NC, 2 VS.

    I’ve been TR since Planetside 1, but in Planetside 2. They have nothing redeeming.
  5. RabidIBM

    Honestly, MBTs are weak in general. I do agree that the Magrider is currently the best, but even it isn't great. When I'm playing tank I almost elusively play AP Lightning now. I say almost because I sometimes pull Skyguard. Seriously, in the last year I've spent more time in a colossus than an MBT.
  6. MoistDoctor

    idk Vanguard shield lets it have pretty much an auto "i win" button in armor fights unless its harassers

    Been thinking about that more, like the TR 'power' is faster shooting, but fast shooting comes with insane recoils, which means harder to control, and then they get the longest reloads on top of it.

    Minus 3 guns and the Colossus feels like what the Prowler aspires to be
  7. JustGotSuspended

    I love TR, but I have to admit, it's probably one of the hardest factions to play, and the least rewarding. I love the repeater, the carv, the nice magazines, sounds of the guns and everything the Republic stands for.

    However as I've progressed and maxed out on other factions, TR has no rewarding directives, it typically gets the worst new weapons, usually is the first faction to be nerfed, and has very little love from the devs. Our MAX ability for example...lockdown? With turning restrictions? In a game with C4 ambushers? LOL. Or the prowler, with its once niche lockdown ability now split into 2 parts, making it even more niche, basically the useless mbt.

    And they have the hardest guns to aim, with the harshest horizontal recoil and vertical kick, it's the worst faction for noobs to start with. And you'd think by the time you've auraxed a few guns with harsh recoils and extreme issues at range, you'd be rewarded with something other than the tracshot...wrong!
  8. Johannes Kaiser

    Sorry for going a bit off-topic, but you love brutal military dictatorships who like treating people as things with no own agenda? :p
  9. Demigan

    [IMG]
    • Up x 2
  10. Demigan

    I have yet to see the evidence that the Prowler actually is the worst performing tank? If you check Voidwell for example you can see the Vanguard main guns almost always underperforming despite having more users:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4009&startDate=2020-10-09&endDate=2020-12-03

    This remains the same if you pick things like kills.

    Then if you switch to Lightning weapons, which should be more or less the same (ignoring they have to fight faction-flavor enemies as well), the NC suddenly scores either the best or second best most of the time:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,3158&startDate=2020-10-09&endDate=2020-12-03

    So it's not a skill issue, it has to do with the equipment.


    When it comes to Lightnings and Harassers, yes NS vehicles should be the most cost/effective to pull. The faction flavor should go to more specialized and niche things. If the balance for those niche things is off it would be less of an impact on the overall game compared to if the faction flavor is the main way to fight.
    • Up x 4
  11. JustGotSuspended


    hop in a prowler
  12. Demigan

    I have, it's glorious. Fast, maneuverable, easy to find the range on longer range targets, can buff it's already formidable DPS even higher while on the move now so it's not as niche as the old Anchor mode, forgiving with misses. Even solo it's a wonderful vehicle. It's the only vehicle where I regularily run out of ammo and have to go back. Some people might go "oh my god that's a bad thing!" but no it's not. The ammo supply holds about the same damage potential for all 3 MBT's, and the Prowler can actually pump out all that damage potential regularily before death.

    The "hop in a Prowler" is also a mute argument. It's based on how you feel the vehicle performs, rather than how it actually performs. And as you can see: My feelings are that the Prowler is a powerful and fun vehicle to drive in. Does that mean suddenly the vehicle is OP? No it's not, because how you and I feel about it don't tell us anything about how it's balanced.

    Should we make the Prowler fun to use for almost everyone so we don't get people who say "I feel the Prowler is weak"? Yes ofcourse! But we can't just buff it or say "oh noes the TR don't have an MBT y'all!" because that's neither true nor going to be good for the game.

    The problem here is that everyone proclaims their tank is the worst. VS do it, TR do it, NC does it (and only one can be correct). But the way they do it is by proclaiming their tank is performing the worst. "We have two shots!", "we have more shell drop!", "our tank has a fat behind!" etc. This screams "we want it buffed" and the devs should not give in to that line of reasoning. We should be looking at ways to change the MBT's, not buff or nerf them. The tanks need to feel good so we can stop looking at all these posts that "their" MBT is the worst regardless of what the actual performance statistics say.
    I would argue that the problem is with the lack of options tanks have in combat. Most combat revolves around popping out of cover, firing a few shots, popping back into cover once you get too much damage dealt. We need more ways to make players feel they can get an advantage over the others without the others feeling they can't defend against it. And tanks have so many unused buttons! You can easily create the following layout:
    Shift for movement related abilities.
    X for swapping out the way your gun fires.
    F for general faction-flavor abilities.
    C for defensive-based abilities (like ducking behind cover, is easier to learn for players).
    G for attack-based abilities (G is for grenade throwing so the connection to offensive abilities is easier to learn).
    ALT could be for detection-based abilities and/ore ECM-based abilities to shield yourself and allies from detection.

    Many of these abilities could be shared with the topgun. That way you get a higher level of cooperation between the driver and gunner, the gunner who basically just spots and shoots gets to do more engaging tasks as well

    This already gives players a far more nuanced range of options. You could even go farther and create dependencies and synergies between these abilities. That way vehicles can feel they are versatile and powerful despite them being more or less balanced compared to each other.
    • Up x 4
  13. JustGotSuspended


    If you let people govern themselves, you create chaos. People have proved it endless times, a majority of people are incapable of governing themselves, and in fact chose any excuse to delegate their fate into the hands of others - be it a God, a boss, a leader, a father/mother - any excuse is good to avoid making difficult decisions ourselves, and more importantly detaches any associated consequence of these actions from ourselves. In exchange for dismissing their responsibilities, people give up a part of their freedom. No matter how "democratic" or "free" a society claims to be, all its members are shackled to the limitations of their "freedom", in order to coexist in harmony. What must be struck is a proper balance between "freedom" and "oppression", and most "democracies" seem incapable of doing so.

    If you "elect" a random bozo who will only rule the country for a short period of time, you get a country with no long-term goals or future, and a leader only interested in quickly amassing as much influence and wealth as they can before their offense ends. You get counterproductivity, and - in the long run - you get a corrupt and broken nation, on the verge of collapse.

    If, on the other hand, your country is able to produce one leader, with a clear vision for their country, and the means to achieve it, you will live in a structured and prosperous nation, with much better living conditions than others. It's a common misconception in our western societies to associate a dictatorship or absolute monarchy to negativity and brutal oppression. That is simply not the case.

    If we take the Emirate of Dubai for example, which is governed by a monarch with a vision, we can see that it is a prosperous and desirable place to live. That however, would've never been the case had H.H. the Sheikh of Dubai listened to his cabinet of ministers, his allies and even some of the people of Dubai, back when the city was mere but a desert, filled with unimaginable potential. Sometimes, the best way to give people what they want is to is to force them into doing what they least expected would be beneficial to them.

    It's important to understand, most people aren't adept to control themselves, much less hold a say in what the nation should or shouldn't do. A monarch, a trained dictator, who's only purpose is to think, plan and execute what is best for his country is the best way to get long-term objectives done. While some people prefer to have the illusion of freedom, I prefer entrusting my country to someone devoted to it's future, not some clown who has to lie to appeal to the masses.

    In this sense, the TR seem to be the most organized, efficient and meaningful faction of the three, that coincide with my idea of how an ideal state should be run. That said, I was mostly referring to the faction traits, music, looks and colors.
    • Up x 2
  14. JustGotSuspended


    Alright, I'll try that layout and see if it compensates for the fact TR have to land 2 shots instead of 1, have the longest reload, have their ability split into two parts, have the maneuverability and hitbox of a vanguard, yet have the same amount of health as the agile magrider.


    I'll see if keybinding fixes the issue of the prowler being the worst in class armor, damage, rof, maneuverability, and recoil. I'll also assume the keybinding will compensate for the fact that the only viable top gun option for the prowler in the halberd, assuming you want to deal some damage to things past 2 meters.

    That said, the rest of your post is reasonable and mostly accurate, and I'm definitely not against a revamp of the whole vehicle lineup to make them all faction specific (at least in terms of looks), and fun to play with. The NC and TR tanks, and the lightnings would all be more fun to use if we simply fixed the collision mechanics, so the tanks don't randomly flip while driving. A simply fix that would eliminate one of the advantages the magrider has, while making tanks more realistic, and fun to use.

    That said, I barely use tanks, especially after the prowler and vanguard nerfs. I wouldn't be the best for calling the specific changes on how each mbt should behave, however I can objectively say that TR (as always) get the short end of the stick. The magrider has been buffed while the other tanks nerfed, and it's not entirely fair, and the drawbacks are definitely felt when playing with the tanks. The prowler in particular lost it's main role and is now in a pretty bizarre and confused place.
  15. Liewec123

    Tried to stay out of this one, because we've been over this stuff a million times!
    But sure let's dive in for a million and one!
    Ironically it's the complete opposite, the high RPM weapons are easier to use,
    less punishing for missed shots and also generally have higher damage output.

    Like comparing Carv and Saw, all people see is "200 damage", they don't factor in anything else,
    If they'd do the math they'd find out that Carv actually has higher DPS (187 higher)
    And due to its bullet-hose nature, missing shots with carv isn't very punishing,
    (While missing a shot with gauss saw cuts a collosal 12% off your DPS)
    Carv also features far less kick. (While saw has the highest vertical kick of any LMG, 5.5)

    So to conclude, the TR have high RPM weapons that are easier to use, are less punishing if you miss,
    And pump out more dps.

    Except...
    The best dogfighting ESF with the smallest hitbox,
    the best A2G farming weapon, Banshee
    The best close/mid range anti air infantry tool in the game, Striker.
    The best extreme range anti air tool in the game, lockdown bursters max (the velocity buff let's you reliably hit targets in other hexes.)
    The best faction specic topgun (read Vulcan harassers.)
    An MBT capable of achieving 3rd highest damage output in the game (only beaten by Tankbuster and shredder)
    This mbt is also capable of firing tank rounds with velocity approaching that of some sniper rifles.
    This mbt also gets 2x600 damage shots per second instead of one 850 shot, each capable of oneshotting ESFs
    This mbt also has the ability to project a massive shield, which when used correctly can open up tactics unavailable to NC/VS.
    Infantry weapon that deal high damage, are easier to use and less punishing (read above for carv/saw comparison)

    But yes other than that...
    • Up x 4
  16. JustGotSuspended


    Not quite. NC have strong but solely vertical recoil. It's pretty easy to compensate for, and once you do, you have a 3 HS kill on the saw for 85m.

    TR weapons might have some spam potential in cqc, however anyone who's played the game long enough knows skill beats spam in most scenarios.

    Also, TR have vertical and horizontal (random recoil). Horizontal can't be compensated for, because it's random. This means a skilled TR player will have less probability to land headshots than a skilled NC player. Additionally, TR are more affected by bloom, encouraging to burst fire, which kills the purpose of having higher rate of fire. And it's funny, because TR also get bad hipfire cof, yet are supposed to be cqc weapons. And good luck killing anything past 5m.

    That's not to say TR weapons are horrible, or that you'll never kill anything that posses more than half a brain cell, however your potential as VS or even NC will be achieved easier and more reliably, and that's why most vets and decent players flock to those factions, and TR is often forgotten. Also, TR directive weapons are the least creative and have no interesting mechanics.
  17. pnkdth

    In terms of KPH/VKPH the factions (dasanfall data for AV weapons) seem to be pretty level as far as MBTs go. The only difference is how they go about it, TR pull the most 1/2 MBTs while VS pull the most 2/2 MBTs, the NC sits somewhere in the middle but closer to the VS. It is quite remarkable how the circumstances have shaped the use of each faction's MBT to achieve such similar results (in terms of outcome).

    That said, in a game of asymmetry the best place to be is when each faction is jealous of what the other person's got.
    • Up x 1
  18. MonnyMoony


    Also, hands down the best sidearm in the game too - the TX1 Repeater, which also happens to be their default weapon (so zero cost).

    Its essentially a rapid fire side arm primary (it actually has a higher DPS than some faction primary weapons - e.g. the VS LMG, the Ursa).

    It's very rare to see a TR packing any other sidearm, even when you have NS sidearms like the Comissioner on offer.
    • Up x 3
  19. Liewec123

    yeah was gonna mention best empire specific spidearm, but the NS stuff now overshadows everything else for sidearms :p
    i guess until people unlock commy it is still a perk though!

    totally agree there, atleast godsaw has the silly vehicle tickling mechanic,
    and they turned Brawler into an NC meme by putting a shotgun on a shotgun
    (not overly useful, but still shows creativity) TR directives are indeed boring.
    • Up x 1
  20. Trebb

    As a former TR main (I'm NSO now, no clue why :p) I remember when the Prowler did NOT one shot ESFs. I was a bit torn, it seems OP if it was able to one shot and had double the chances of the other faction tanks to land a hit.

    Lo and behold it now one shots most ESFs, and it seems a bit on the strong side lol. Despite playing since release of PS2, I have almost no real tank experience because I find the armor game horribly dull. (Peek, shoot, repair, repeat). To me, it seems like the Magrider is outperforming the rest.