[Suggestion] Faster cruising speed for ESF's

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MichaelMoen, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. MichaelMoen

    In an idea to make ESF's act more like Air Superiority aircraft and tone down the ground farming, perhaps give a substantial boost to the cruising speed, while also requiring more time to slow to a hover, so players on the ground can maybe see the ground pounders coming.

    At the same time, ESF's wanting to fire on ground targets while going at speed will have said speed as a defense, not giving players with lock ons enough time to get a lock, but at the same time your ESF will be going so fast that you won't have enough time to engage multiple targets in the area, as after hitting the first one you'd have already passed over.

    Also dog fights would be more fun as opposed to the hover dancing ESF's normally devolve into, as well as who can turn faster.
  2. Blam320

    I like the idea of actually making ESFs act like fighters, over helicopters. The role of attack helicopter is in the hands of the Valkyrie now, so there's no excuse for ESFs to have the power to engage any target they want at their discretion.
  3. Crayv

    Faster cruise speed but can't shoot in hover mode (press a button to switch in and out of it). AA secondaries buffed.
    • Up x 1
  4. adamts01

    This game needs at least double if not triple the render ranges for traditional flight to work. So, not going to happen. Most pilots will happily help you get good at the air game if you ask.
  5. Blam320

    That's not the point. The air game is entirely dominated by exploits such as the reverse maneuver, and Air vs Ground combat is in an abysmal state balance-wise.
    • Up x 1
  6. adamts01

    No, you miss the point. Those "exploits" like the reverse maneuver NEED to exist because traditional dog fighting can't.

    Yes, air/ground balance is abysmal. It always has been and always will be unless a dev decides to learn to fly. Look at their current problem. Consider the largest voices in the community. 90% of players are squishy ground peasants with zero clue about the air, like yourself, the most vocal pilots want a silly bushido 1v1 arena in the air, and what's left are people like myself without faction bias and an equal distribution of air and infantry time. Anyone reasonable gets drowned out. We need a dev to experience this game from every angle, there's no other way.
  7. LordKrelas

    What?
    They can't experience G2A to fix the Problem? They need to be a Pilot, in the sky, doing A2A to fix the G2A vs A2G?
    Do they need to also experience A2G to fix G2A?
    We're in this state, apparently from Devs that don't fly, gave Ground only Deterrents & Air, Lethal Firepower.
    How does them flying, solve G2A & A2G?
    If they're not flying, Why is Air so gods-be-damned powerful & anti-Air absolutely shagged?

    If they don't fly, shouldn't they have the inverse of the present Problem? How do we have a Sky-Bastian that devastates the ground, favoring Aircraft, if the Devs need to Fly, to solve G2A & A2G?
    Or do you mean, A2A has to be solved first, before fixing the ******** that is G2A & A2G Gaps?
    • Up x 1
  8. adamts01

    Yes. What's needed is someone that truly understands the game from the air side of things, because everyone understands it from the ground side of things. Is AA a good killer? Hell no. Is AA a good deterrent? Yep, broken as ****. But I bet you think flak needs a damage and accuracy buff? Case and point.
  9. Money

    just remove the ability for an ground pounding ESF to attack aircraft. They could choose ground AI ordinance or AA ordinance. If they choose to be AI, then they are defenseless against AA and easy pickings! Circle of Life!
  10. LordKrelas

    Really now.
    Liberators have Built-in Boosters, Resistence Increase on their Underside, Mount 2 MBT Main-Weapons.
    ESFs have Built-in Radar, Boost, Self-Repair, Improved Fire-Supression Heal, Flares disable Lock-on & Disrupt all in-flight shots.

    Skyguards; Must buy Radar Separately from the Skyguard Weapon itself.
    Skyguards, must buy the Weapon; Which is ineffective against all other targets, and is a Deterrent against ESFs. The lightest Air unit.

    I'm pretty sure, with how G2A & A2G is, that them being apparently Groundsiders, is favoring Pilots, if it gets any-more,
    Air will be asked if they wish to accept ground-fire, before Ground is allowed to shoot.

    As well; No.

    Flak is a **** mechanic; And Deterrents let alone when 1 side has the Only deterrent in the entire game, it is also a **** system.
    Deterrents, as they Stack , and are intended to drive away their target, are not fun for either side.
    Lets break this down, as apparently you don't recall How much I dislike Flak.

    For the G2A User, their Deterrent requires them to specialize to access it, and suffer against all targets - If they succeed, they have no targets for the lowest EXP result possible, No kill, high vulnerability to everything including their target - if it showed up, and to top it off; Most of the G2A Deterrents cost equal or More than the Air-Units they could deter.

    This means, for example, the Lightning, Pays to become a Skyguard, for the same price as the ESF.
    A Single Skyguard, is not the equal of an ESF, it is slower, more vulnerable, and if engaged by anything else, will be easily mauled - including larger aircraft, ESFs can also endanger the Skyguard, if they aren't face-tanking it, assuming they even engage it.
    This Skyguard, can only deter the ESF, without out-numbering the single Pilot ESF, against Liberators, this Skyguard is dead.
    If it succeeds, it now has no effective-target, and still the massive vulnerability towards all ground-units nearby - with the ESF now attacking other Allies outside its effective-targeting range -- To even reach this point, the Skyguard Gameplay is a waiting game puncutured by short moments of G2A, and constantly being exposed to everything else that can kill it.
    This is a specialized unit, that can Deter a singular ESF, a Universal High-Speed Single-Pilot aircraft for the same price.
    The Effective Skyguard count is 2-3, That is 2-3x the Resource & Crew Investment, to engage a Single-Pilot in the lowest priced Aircraft - and that is to actually remove the Aircraft from the Local region, more effectively than it lingering.

    A Success, means the Aircraft is still attacking allies, and has lost no nanites; EXP is incredibly small, let alone if the first Ribbon wasn't reached.
    A Failure, is the exact same thing, with the possibility of the skyguard being dead.
    Against Larger-Units, the Skyguard requires more Units - further reducing the EXP.
    MAXEs, are 450 Nanites a pop, and die to the first ESF Rocket-Pod Burst.
    Solo-manned Liberators can survive 3+ Skyguards, and manage to effectively kill even during the Deterrent.

    From the Ground's Perspective, G2A is a waiting-Game, taking them out of the Fight, with the lowest Reward.
    Using a weapon that feels incredibly powerless & useless, forcing them to specialize against Universal-Units, with numerous costs to their operation, a weapon they can't even effectively aim, as it barely rewards or cares about skill; It's about numbers.
    This is not a Fun Experience at all.

    Lets look at it from the Pilot's View.

    ESF First; At "long Range", you begin getting Chip Damage from possibly multiple Flak Sources across an entire region.
    You can't effectively dodge them, this is a constant chip-damage', that isn't lethal unless you over-extended, but it hampers your activity & is a threat heavily during any Dog-fight or retreat - Then it becomes fatal.
    Against larger-groups, this Chip-damage is no longer-chip-damage, as the Flak-Sources stack, the Deterrence flips inside a moment into a near instantous Killing-Field for the Pilot who can't dodge it.
    It regulates Skill for the Pilot , into nothingness, as the Flak makes evasion near useless - so they can't operate near larger battles too easily, due to the en-mass of Flak fire.

    This is not a Fun Experience for the Pilot, at all.
    It's a constant damage source, to then a near unavoidable death if they get near select regions.

    This extends to Liberators & all other Aircraft, who have even less agility, making the stacking worse.


    Flak, as a mechanic, is a deterrent, that stacks - and due to how massive the trigger range is, it can't not be a deterrent.
    Its usage, makes skill pointless for the User & the Target.
    Ground has to Specialize hard, & sacrifice, to field G2A, and the mainstay G2A is Flak.
    Flak is horrid for Both Sides.

    Now about G2A & A2G?
    G2A is all Deterrents , often the Bloody horrid Flak.
    While A2G is often High DPS Splash-Heavy Firepower equal to the Main-Guns on a MBT.
    A Valkyire's AI is a savage Splash-Weapon; An ESF can carry twice the Weapons of a lightning for the same price.
    A Liberator's Nose-Gun can shred an MBT, while their Underbelly Gun is quite literally stronger than the Main Guns of an MBT.

    Air can not be escaped by Land-Vehicles, and Infantry have to hide inside Buildings, due to the sheer speed.
    Flak can not be avoided by Air, without attacking only where G2A isn't available or present.

    If AV AI Combat was like this,
    Tanks would either be Absent or Slaughtering, in the Eyes of Infantry.
    Right now, They aren't Absent & they aren't only seen Slaughtering;
    AV is plentiful & isn't a deterrent.
    AI is plentiful & also isn't a deterrent.
    Only G2A is a deterrent, and full of absolute garbage mechanics, for both sides.

    Why exactly must G2A be a Deterrent? Why in christ, is everything this crap flak?
    Why must Devs be Pilots? Air is literally fielding the Sky-Bastian's, and Liberators.
    Why do you randomly believe people like Flak? People want better G2A, and it ain't Flak.

    We don't have any other Deterrent weapons in this game.
    Only when fighting Air. Not even Air has Deterrent weapons for Anti-Air.