Construction is just unsatisfactory

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. karlooo

    To put it short in the current state of Construction the only 2 types of bases you can build is a Router base or some armor production, defensive base (Construction is too weak to fight off armor and hold off armor).
    The Orbital Strike, Flail and Glaive IPC are very situational and shouldn't be placed unless completely necessary.

    Router base role couldn't get any more boring.
    The Armor production, defensive base...as I would call it, is fairly interesting but unsatisfactory. I'll first explain what is this type?
    It's a base which primary purpose is to help defend the objective (Defend a lattice base) by allowing allies to take out free combat vehicles thanks to your 'Light Vehicle Terminal' and also provide some cover, ammo and light (short lasting lol) fire power - aka regular construction.

    There are many reasons why its unsatisfactory:
    -It's a solo role, unless you have a good friend
    -It takes an incredibly long time to complete
    -It's always too general, not excelling in anything, therefore having too many counters
    -It requires the owner to be too attentive

    So it takes too much time, its too general, requires too much attention and is solo because its both unessential and unenjoyable to use....it basically doesn't fit with the current Planetside 2.

    _________________

    I do see an over complicated way of fixing this but it could be interesting.
    It would be to add new continents (A remake of the current ones, but not exchange them because most people don't like change), where each Lattice base/territory involves combined arms. So the lattice bases would need to be much much bigger than the current ones, less clustered - more open. Now with these types of lattice bases and removal of no construction zone restrictions (and Flail), construction can be implemented into the core game with everything else, even allowing cooperation with squads and outfits.

    Vehicle spam would be very annoying but the new continent could change game rules.
    Instead of purchasing vehicles with Nantites it could instead use a small amount of outfit resources. And the outfit leader would set restrictions for these small items and stuff, like who can use it, how many resources can the player use in some X amount of time, etc...
  2. Blam320

    I think the problem more lies with the fact that Construction is a very, very slow mechanic, and often can't keep up with the pace at which the game's battle flow can change. Bases can often be either overwhelmed or left in the dust by rapidly advancing or retreating front lines.

    Which leaves us with two options:

    One, we can slow down the game's flow, which means Construction will have the time it needs to set up bases and flourish. Slowing down the flow of the game opens up the window to introduce more tactical or logistical elements, which were present in PlanetSide 1 but are absent in the sequel.

    Two, we can speed Construction up, by reducing the build time and Cortium costs for objects. This allows Construction bases to pop up much quicker, so they can keep up with battle flow easier.
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  3. Johannes Kaiser

    Slowing everything else down would likely be quite difficult. Speeding up construction should not be that hard though. And in addition, it would help tremendously if there was a little bit of help in placing objects, because getting walls to meet on one end and still point the right direction on the other end can be really challenging sometimes (especially if the adjoining wall isn't fully built yet).
    Also, and I will repeat myself from another thread, turrets need to be more resistant to damage. It's just pointless that a single MBT can tear down everything that protects the base from far away in 1-2 minutes and then proceed to destroy the defenseless rest for whatever XP it's worth.
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  4. vonRichtschuetz

    Since the Bastion update it's impossible to build roadblock bases. They got shutdown relatively easy with a coordinated effort before, but since every large outfit now has always access to orbital strikes, every roadblock base just gets nuked as soon as it actually starts doing it's job.
    Just to put it into perspective, last week I was at a fight at Seabed Listening Post. It had no relevance to the general state of the map whatsoever. It had NINE outfit orbitals on it. Two of them, after the fight was over for no reason whatsoever except just to meme. It only takes two orbitals to take out any PMB. Outfit orbitals should never have been implemented as a way to remove PMBs, and made so easily accessible, both building and using them.

    And as if that wasn't enough, the patch after that added cortium bombs, which are incredibly annoying to defend against. The recent patch added anti-repair debuffs, which don't make it more fun to build either.

    Within less than half a year, building an actual base, that makes use of the complete set of available buildings from multiple people and gets defended and fought around, got completely removed from the game for no reason whatsoever. It was rare that good fights developed before - usually no one showed up or it got overrun immediatly by a coordinated squad/platoon (depending on base size).

    Sometimes magic happened. Enemy forces accumulated slowly, trying to take a PMB of 5-6 players, the spawn system allowing to spawn defenders in before it gets overrun and within the hour there were 48+ on each side battling around a unique layout, with tanks, aircraft, infantry and enemy bases trying to shell us - that was amazing. Half a squad trying to find cortium to resupply the ever hungry base, having to evade enemy forces, needing protection from allied armor - or at least distraction to get back alive. A huge fight that peaked in almost two enemy platoons with a lot of armor finally breaking through after two hours. (Given, that only happens as long as most people in such a fight play uncoordinated.)

    I feel like those bases were the last times I experienced combined arms over an extended period of time. All we have now is A2A spam around Bastions - if anyone cares enough to fight them, they got boring pretty quick. And "combined arms" mostly means someone statpadding their Kobalt, HESH or A2G of choice.
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  5. SilentSueRia

    The State of Construction has gone from bad to worse over time.
    With how SOE implemented the Live Launch of player base building to begin with, it was bad, at the very base part designs in of themselves, topped off with not including the construction drone, as well as not having ways to easily align base parts or have any gridded referencing system, while also having misaligned 3D objects between deployment mode and actual placed object.

    Daybreak Games and Rogue Planet inherited a game feature that was extremely poorly implemented by SOE from the start, but I won't give Daybreak and Rogue Planet a break on that issue either, since this being their game now, should have every right and ability to make changes to the construction system that makes far more sense and more enjoyable to do.

    A lot of the base part designs in of themselves need a complete overhaul. The Sundy Garage, the Bunker, the Pill box, the Tower are easy to reference for needing a complete make over, as the very design philosophy SOE had for them was way too heavy handed on making them easy to defeat. There is simply no chance you will be able to use the default Rampart wall nor the Directives Construction rewarded Wall can ever be aligned in a way to actually have a god wall with a tower in it. The base part exclusion zones guarantee that you will have a gap for anyone to slip threw. SOE was massively too heavy handed on keeping the base design excessively vulnerable from inception and Daybreak/Rogue Planet isn't even trying to correct the designs. It is as if Daybreak/Rogue Planet's perspective is "we inherited a crap heap with this player construction feature and don't wanna touch it, let us just bury it and hope players demand it's deletion."

    I don't think we will ever see player construction fixed nor made into something fun. SOE's very philosophy was extreme poor judgement. Daybreak/Rogue Planet doesn't get a pass either since they show no signs of using a better philosophy, since they haven't overhauled the base parts, nor made the ability to setup bases easier, which would start with adding the construction drone back to the system and adding a reference grid we can use to line up base parts a lot easier, on top of allowing squad/platoon members to donate their characters base parts to a lead builder or centralized pool, like a player being able to approach a silo and select a feature of "add my personal base parts pool too this silo, so my squad/platoon leader or whoever uses this silo can use it while they fly around in a construction zone placing base parts!"

    Allowing the ability to design the base, setting up the deployment mode parts, but not automatically starting the construction upon placing it, allowing us to defer the nanite construction process, so we can do a better job with setting it up, would also help.

    It would be nice if the silo itself was treated like a vehicle, in the sense that you could get in it, and launch the construction drone from the silo, fly around, placing the deployment mode objects from an overhead flied view, the drone your piloting can provide. Choose the locations of where your base parts and other player donated base parts could be build, in a project design mode, that could be changed, before making final, construction approval button smashing.

    even if Daybreak/Rogue Planet didn't redesign the base parts themselves to be far more practical and able, the mere ability to have such a Designer mode flying drone feature with visible alignment reference grid and player part pool donation options would hugely change player construction for the better, EVEN IN THESE POST BASTON SPAM OUTFIT ORBITAL STRIKE TIMES!

    If Daybreak/Rogue planets makes those corrections to SOE's flawed design philosophy, that could really break player construction back into something that could be viable and far closer to fun or at least far more satisfying.

    AT THE VERY LEAST! CORRECT SOE's MISTAKE THEY SOLD YOU!!! THEN YOU CAN BE GIVEN A PASS!
    • Up x 2
  6. Peebuddy

    I honestly hate the outfit orbitals more than overpowered bastions which just farm for an hour. They literally made it so there are at least 100 times more orbitals going off in this game, I don't know how those satellites keep up with the demand they're going off like 4th of July fireworks. They're used in the most asinine way too, more of a defensive tool on your own position to keep the enemy at bay rather than hitting hard targets, it's just so idiotic how they function in this game.

    As it's been said they just obliterate PMBs, they're seen as free exp with all that juicy construction destruction and enemy players who have nowhere to run. The skyshield doesn't work in the slightest and anyone who stays in the radius even inside a construct is a dead man, they HAVE to implement something to combat the relative ease in which to annihilate a base.

    I honestly want a OS no-fire zone building, say it interferes with the satellites targeting systems, any reason to prevent easy 360 no scopes on player bases. Make them at least have to send a team to destroy it first, it shouldn't be too hard bases are sparsely defended anyways, but this point and click to victory button is some serious BS IMO.

    I also really really love the idea of the silo being like a command bunker where a drone or something can place buildings. Currently the builder is so incredibly vulnerable during construction or repairing, out there standing with his d*ck in the wind trying to get the perfect angle for a wall and get's killed by the plethora of enemies taking advantage of this fact. There have been a lot of games who implemented a commander type role which gets a strategic view of the area, I don't see how this wouldn't work here.
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  7. RabidIBM

    Construction doesn't need to be a solo op, you just need to find the right PL to run with. I had to shop around, even changing factions, but I found people who support my bases, and I'm building presence in the outfit. I usually have a small fire team in a platoon, with platoon comms turned mostly down so we can hear each other on fire team comms.

    Regarding the possibility of the base never being relevant, that is always a risk, but you can reduce that by placing it closer to an enemy warpgate than your own. Obviously you will never need to be with a cooperative PL to do that.

    There is also the risk that the PL won't care to defend your base when the time comes. To mitigate this, I involve the PL in the discussion before I build, this way the request for defenders doesn't blind side him. This also allows him to plan to ensure our outfit has it's claim on the bases my constructed base protects. This way the PL is bought into the base and will help me.

    For a suggestion to get you started on these points, the next time you are at the north east warpgate of Amerish, try to convince your PL to go for Ikanam biolab. Build on the southern control point. Use that trench for cover. This us an aggressive placement, so it's likely to be involved in a battle, it covers a lattice intersection which protects the entire northern line of territory, and it's worth blue outfit resources. Trust me, try it.
  8. Johannes Kaiser

    Honestly, that is not the worst of ways, and depending on things like communication this can actually be both effective and fun (speaking as someone who has been on both sides of high quality defensive OSs). It mostly depends on how much you take care to not hit friendlies and where you put them to actually be helpful in helping your people get to the point at the last second (pulling that trick BEFORE it comes down to nails really isn't all that engaging, on that I agree).
    Best one I had was when we announced our strike before doing it, and another outfit commander put one on the other side of the base (Mani Fortress), effectively cutting the base in two for a few seconds, saved the point from VS overpop with 2 sec to go and we held it for another hour or so after this comeback.
  9. RabidIBM

    I will also jump on the band wagon of hate for outfit OS. It feels like a slap in the face to builders. The hoops we have to jump through vs "I run around looking for a target, I make sure to die on the target, then use my dealt logo on the map to right click the orbital!"
  10. karlooo


    I really do not think that time is the largest problem with construction.
    Lets say you got your wish, you can build bases very quickly but now what? You are still by yourself, you still need to be really attentive, especially with the new 'Cortium Bombs' and at the end your base isn't exactly useful because it has nearly no impact on the objective....Most allies don't know if its even worth using it.
  11. karlooo

    Roadblock bases were impossible to build since 'Construction Reconstructed' update. Not saying it was a terrible change, just saying your walls are required to be invincible to halt an enemy advance lol because construction doesn't have the firepower to fight off more than one combat vehicle.
    I extremely hated the Orbital Strike however construction was updated this year to fix this issue of the one click f u counter weapon with the 'Skyshield Module', which now blocks a whole OS strike. So I'm sort of happy with the change, still believe it should be removed from construction because of how much it over complicates it and outfit OS should stay, it is pretty necessary in the objective.
  12. karlooo

    I still stand by my idea of changing the continents. I don't see any other way.
  13. Peebuddy

    Well if you shrink the no-construct zones by at least 50% then honestly you are getting a completely new map. I can't tell you how many times I looked at the map and saw a really cool ridge, hill, or mountain only to drive my ant over there and it's just BARELY in the zone.
    Shrunk zones ad new and exciting build locations that act more of a secondary hard spawn for a base which might get more defenders because of it. They however absolutely must change the spawn timer on the elisium spawn tubes, there is no reason they should be any longer than an ams' or a normal hard spawn.
    • Up x 1
  14. karlooo


    True, but I personally wouldn't be exited if that happened (Construction was my first mained role in PS2). Possibly I may not even go back to construction if such a great change like that came...
    There is still something big missing. It's lonely, solo, you can't even cooperate with your outfit in this role (Defensive style base. Router is a terrible role).
  15. Taybridge

    Maybe bring back the old Hive generators, but instead of earning Victory points it could earn Auraxium (green) resource for the outfit. This would help with smaller outfits being able to generate resources for there group. Keep the old mechanics the closer the hive is to enemy warpgate higher rate earned once it is live it would be seen across the map, this would increase the danger and make building larger base's more relevant. Even limiting one outfit hive a day for a max of 1 to 2 hours.
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  16. karlooo

    Interesting idea but I cannot imagine it going well - Spam, arguments over which outfit gets to build it on a certain location, persuade even more players to Cortium bomb attack, etc...

    How about this simple idea....I've already mentioned this 2 years ago, messaged Drew with the plan when he was announced as the dev that's working on construction.
    The idea is very simple and in combination with reduced no-Construction zones it could become an actually necessary role -> Anti-Zerg.

    The idea was simply add more guns in an interesting way. Firstly the Glaive IPC should become a fully manually controlled weapon which will work like any other turret but its rounds are more unique, it can shut down the vehicle for some time, slow it down, deal heavy indirect damage to infantry shields....
    The other weapons what I'm thinking about should be like advanced deployables. For example the Engineer Anti-Tank Mana Turret (but with much more range), or some sort of Auto 20mm Turret....you can place these on the walls, in your own Towers. Give allies that spawn there have a weapon that can actually fight back against tanks.
    This will also allow the ANT to be able to support in the objective by placing these deployable heavy weapons inside the objective.
  17. karlooo

    Oh and I forgot. They should finally remove this stupid nerf which was done a long time ago - Structure drain with no Silo!!!!!!
    (I played on Emerald) A couple years ago I used to just put down these mini forts when I noticed allies may need help, like a Wall, Turret, Tower....At the time non powered structures didn't have their HP drained and turrets also used to do more damage, for example the AV Turret used to kill infantry with 1 direct hit.

    I don't know what dev got upset by this and decided it needed to get nerfed into the ground, literally.
    Like I don't want to always build a complete base (which takes 40 min), calculate everything, plan everything out, constantly supply....I sometimes just want to build 2 structures and help defend, like I was allowed to in the past.
    The AV Turret/Tower is also a complete joke. All it does now is scratch the paint off vehicles, before it used to do real damage. I don't understand why some dev thought a stationary, limited turret needed a very hard nerf.
  18. BamaRage

    Construction was just one more chunk of stupid added to the game that just does not fit. I say delete that load of crap right before you delete the latest round of stupid additions....
  19. karlooo

    True. I would start off with something simple that doesn't require a game change.

    A new structure, that will be placed like a deployable, will have no HP drain without silo, won't be effected by Modules and instead of having the construction zone limit, it will have the Sunderer Deploy limit --> An asset called "Tank Trap". (Slightly wider version)

    The Tank trap provides cover for tanks and infantry. I believe this would help with defending against zergs in areas, where tanks don't really have much cover.
    [IMG]
    Edit: Sry about this image size.
  20. SilentSueRia

    I doubt Daybreak/Rogue Planet is going to do anything about construction, other then more nerfs or strait deletion.
    Fixing construction requires forsaking the bad design philosophy SOE started it out with, which means forsaking the excessive heavy handed intentional vulnerabilities under the guise of game balance. The fact that Daybreak/Rouge has actually followed up construction with more nerfs and more vulnerabilities shows that they don't even like construction themselves.

    They want to get rid of construction, but they don't want the community backlash that will happen if they strait up delete it out right, so they are doing the slow boiling frog, death by 1000 cuts, Ebay changing the background color 1 shade a day over a year from yellow to white. That is what Daybreak/rogue is doing to construction.

    The Goal is simple, slowly introduce enough inconveniences and disfuncitnality that keep making construction more and more worthless till you have pissed everyone off towards the game play and everyone begs to have it deleted.

    They won't lift a finger to fix anything with construction, except to keep an image of trying "to improve construction," when the statements are nothing more then a lie to placate players who are construction enthusiast.

    There are no real fixes nor improvements coming for construction game play. They already decided to kill it. Everything else is just the slow kill strategy while saying "we are dedicated to making it better!"
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