Tanks / Armor *Unbalanced - Weak*

Tanks are practically helpless for the most part. Ive been maining ha lately. I can singlehandedly charge at a prowler or lightning across open terrain starter dumfirelauncher in hand and do enough dmg to make that mbt flee from me.. Granted im likely to die to the vehicle regardless but point still stands. If i had 3 to 5 guys follow my reckless charge with similar weapons. Thats basically a temporary lost position to the mbt pilot. And if we were all charging said mbt with fury flash say goodbye too mbt. But mbts are really only a threat to a lightly defended sundy. Or when a horde of em show up as part of an armor column. But even then harrasers flashes and your generic goon hordes are more effective at disrupting and destroying said mbts than mbts themselves. if we took c4 away from light assault. Well all that would do is possibly incentivise even more harrasers and cloak fury flashes. And sundies infantry and mbts would rejoice at the dissapearance of c4 fairies. well prolly get cloak flashes with c4 equiped ppl riding on the back nuking stuff instead.

its basically pick how you want to die with mbts.. Since they get nuked if they stay back and they get nuked if they try to push. The only exception here is the magrider.

If you learn to actually read and understand the information I dont have to be exhaustive to make sure you dont misunderstand.

Read it again, they used to do it with almost no effective counters. The tanks can still stop squads and platoons but it takes more effort. Considering it still takes less than half the effort for infantry with less risks involved the tanks have a far superior position for no reason at all.

I understand some people have a slower learning curve in vehicles, but that doesnt mean they get to dictate how the game should function. You do have the time to remain long in the field. There's plenty of people who can remain in about the sane position for 5 to 15 minutes at a time with great opportunities to kill enemies and little effective retaliation. So why should we make it even easier and more powerful for AOE to kill infantry?
We already had this system with larger and more powerful AOE, and it sucked balls. It was bad for the gameplay, even with todays setup the tanks have it far too easy. Do you even know why almost every single base has walls to segregate infantry and vehicles? Because back then and even today any base that vehicles can fire into is absolutely dominated by them. The day that these walls can be removed and infantry+tanks can fight each other anywhere without an unbalanced problem is the day we should all look forwards too, but you just want easy-mode "because I want my shell to hurt".

I understand that you have no concept of fair play and that you are massively biased in your thinking. AOE shells are plenty powerful, they are plenty useful and if you think or feel they arent that is your problem, dont make it my problem by boosting the AOE to even more OP levels.

Again my dear moron, I did not say that. Inspecifically said that on average it has to take less than 4 shots per infantry kill for me as I take my time trying to kill tanks with the same canon as well, tanks that require significantly more than 4 shots to kill so if my average is still 4 shots per kill I have to kill those infantry in 1 or 2 shot on average.
Also the it doesnt matter was about the effectiveness versus gameplay. It doesnt matter how many shots it takes as long as its fair and fun for both sides. Now you have "affinity" for AOE, but I doubt that. I think you have affinity for farming with cheap easymode HESH rounds and just feel you need to murder entire squads just because you want to feel more invinsible.

That dampener is one of the few good ideas they have to keep the gameplay alive. And yes the population is declining but its not because of tank AOE. In fact its the other way around. During the last round of nerfs and buffs for vehicles and infantry the vehicles got the gravy end of the stick, although they will have you believe otherwise. No more large downside to taking HESH when in vehicle combat, infantry gets more rockets but less damage per rocket meaning they have to expose themselves more and an armor specifically designed to protect against C4. These nerfs to infantry AV are one good reason that players are leaving, or at least leaving even harder.

As for the latest exodus, tons of players came back and left but that had nothing to do with an "affinity" for AOE. It had to do with the pomise of teamwork and Bastion Carrier combat. Then it came and players quickly realized that it wasnt the kind of teamwork they wanted (in fact it segregates as even outfits are unwilling to help each other so they can steal the resources) and the Bastion and other items are hogged by the few while the merit system designed to reward teamwork does so by forcing people into outfits they have no affinity to and rewards with decidedly non-teamwork items.

Dude chill down I don't think you even got the point. I am on the side who says that vehicle gameplay is totally unfun and unrewarding, thus need either rework or buff because it does almost NOTHING in assisting attack or defense of a base

There are already tons of people complaining about "vehicle mains" players whenever a base is lost or an alert lost. That is not without any backup. Most elitefit these days just drop on the point with a valk/gal, put down a spawn beacons and routers, and stayed inside the pointroom. Vehicle isn't even a tool to farm infantry anymore as compared to just pulling A2G or just right clicking pocket orbital. The only fun these days about using vehicle is if the enemy started pulling some too, that's about it.

The number of bases where vehicle superiority could turn the base to attacker/defender favor is probably only those vehicle bases or some few key bases like howling pass. All other bases are already too well protected from vehicle fire to a point where you need to be really bad as an infantry to go out of the base walls and face the open field. Yet if you check reddit or this forum, there are so many people who are against buffing vehicle in any sort (be it velocity buff, resistance change, etc) with the reasoning that vehicle mains are just going to spam HESH on infantry that doesn't require skill. Skill itself is not valid argument as this game lack a matchmaking, so for someone being able to chain headshot 3 people in a single mag probably require far less skill compared with someone trying to shoot drifting LA with HEAT cannon

Yes sure it's easy to kill solo medic when you're in a tank in an open field and asking for a buff for the tank may seem ridiculous, but how often does an infantry even see a tank and thought "oh no we need to pull armor or else we lose this pointhold where we established routers and spitfires indoor". Almost never. Infantry players currently already laugh at MBTs on how unthreatening they are. You know what require less skill than killing infantry in a tank? Throwing C4 which can almost guarantee a kill per throw while vehicle need to worry about harasser, libs, C4, other vehicles, infantry lock ons, orbital strike, and hostile bastion. Infantry only need to face infantry almost 80% of the time while vehicle need to worry about the whole infantry+vehicle+air 100% of the time


I always believe in the existance of strategy and counters, where one thing counters another and strategy is useful. If you face an elitefit pointhold of 2.5 KD heavies that is impossible to breach there should definitely be another way to breach it right? Oh wait the anti infantry tank cant do that, guess I need to deploy out to avoid being farmed. Currently infantry doesn't give a damn about vehicle other than complaining when they got killed by a single uncontested hesh lightning that somehow manage to be on the high ground of a walled base uncontested by any allied vehicle.

I like this sort of balanced view, but the problem is if we allowed vehicles more access into bases, that would flip it completely instead of giving them limited access. What they can do in an infantry-based environment can be seen when (of course) Magriders get into positions no tank is supposed to go and shell down like there's no tomorrow. And while I would absolutely agree that vehicles could use a role as breakers of otherwise too strong positions (personally I don't see them as being too tanky, except for Harrasser, but that's another story; so I wouldn't even say this added role would have to be offset specifically by a nerf in defensive capabilities), it is also very important that it does not get out of hand.

Tanks do not stop squads or platoons. Please show me how they stop squads and platoons? I played for about 4 hours yesterday. You know what my tank did not do? Not stop a squad or platoons. Did I get kills, absolutely. Did I die a lot, absolutely. However, when a squad or platoon start zerging toward me .. I moved. You know why? Because they were shooting at me with AT ... I didn't see them stop and take cover. Matter of fact, they locked in on me ready for the kill shooting me with AT. So ... yeah. Which is fine, but dont say ******** like tanks stop an entire squad and platoon. You sound ********.

The fact you just said people can sit in the same position for 5 minutes to 15 minutes at a time is another ******** comment. Please stop making them. Your over exaggeration is ********. Please record you sitting in a position, holding a door way, as you said the HESH is good for, for 5 to 15 minutes in a fight. I think we'll just see the brown stains all over the video from your ********.

I understand you have the concept of tanks not making your life difficult as an infantry person. Your ******* just said what's it matter if a HESH round takes 4 or even 6 rounds to kill an infantry man. That nullifies anything you have to say. That was pure stupidity and shows your bias. I tried to find an even ground, you have tons of AT and armor to counter armor, up the AOE slightly to make HESH more effective to help armor counter all the infantry counter. Not to mention HESH is easily outgunned by enemy armor ... HESH will die to enemy tanks.

I think I got the gist right.

We might agree that vehicles need to be more prominent, however I don't think that vehicles are the poor little things that the tank crowd says they are and infantry are far from protected or safe from tanks. You yourself keep saying that infantry has nothing to fear and that they rarely even have contact with tanks, then immediately do a 180 saying that infantry will do anything to keep tank AOE down because they fear it.

And if infantry has no reason to go outside beyond those well protected walls, why would they ever throw C4 at tanks? Why bother or take the risk? And C4 does not "guarantee a kill per throw" because most of the time players will die before they take out their C4 to actually throw it. It takes 50x more skill to approach a tank unseen and throw C4 on it compared to blowing infantry away with tank guns and it's stupid to claim anything else. The only time it takes less skill to C4 a tank is if said tank is tunnel-visioning and remains unawares of the infantry. Even then said infantry still needs awareness to avoid the enemy infantry and potentially other tanks to get there first, in other words they still need more skill than the tank itself is displaying at that moment.
Just imagine if infantry has a hold on the goings on between the walls of a base. They will never defeat the vehicles outside if they don't go outside so the attackers will simply bring new Sunderers and the attack will last until the attackers get the base. Also having the outside of the base dominated by vehicles means the infantry of the attackers have free reign to probe and push wherever they like in a base while the defenders risk OHK's and AOE murder every time they try to stop the attackers. This funnels the defenders into chokepoints if they try to get at the enemy Sunderer while the attackers can more easily outflank them and avoid those same chokepoints.

The number of bases where vehicle superiority is key for attackers is all of them. Vehicle superiority means you can move your Sunderer into position. Vehicle superiority means you prevent the defenders from pulling more tanks as the vehicle terminals and pads are the first thing that fall on 99% of the bases. Vehicle superiority means you can protect your Sunderer, which is often virtually defenseless when a vehicle shows up to destroy it unless the attackers have vehicles themselves.



Let's put it like this: We do need an existance of strategy and counters, and asking for more AOE is the opposite of that very thing you believe in. It reduces the amount of strategy and counters that tanks need to protect themselves from infantry. It makes tanking even easier and more brainless than it already is.

We need to stop looking at "but infantry this" and "but vehicles that". We need to look at how we can F U C K I N G IMPROVE the game for all of them. We should not care about if the other player is doing infantry, tanks or both. We should only care about how we can make it more fun for infantry and tanks to be engaging each other.
Right now tank players say "nerf C4 and buff tanks". Ofcourse infantry is going to complain because you are pushing an already unfun lopsided fight even more into vehicle favor. Infantry say "nerf tanks and buff our AV". Ofcourse vehicles are going to complain as they are already quite literally side-lined by walls at each base and they feel like cert-piniata's whenever they forget to pay attention and C4 drops on them. We need to make sure a vehicle player wants to get right into the face of infantry holding AV and think it was a good fair fight regardless of him winning or losing. We need to make sure an infantry players wants to go up against a vehicle and even have all those ridiculous walls removed allowing vehicles to fire and fight right on top of the infantry regardless of the infantry winning or losing at that time. But because everyone is acting like little s h i t s about it we keep getting stuck in an endless loop of "he said she said".

Tanks do stop squads and platoons. Just because you played 4 hours and sucked does not mean everyone sucks. You stop them by forcing them into different paths, by killing them and menacing them while they try to move through the base, making them choose between weakened attacks on the flanks or going in full force through more limited area's, giving your team an easier time funneling them into chokepoints.

If they weren't stopping to take cover the simple truth is you suck at tanks. And if you don't suck then you are lying to get your way. And again: Why should a squad or platoon aimed at a solitary idiot in a tank be losing from that solitary idiot in a tank? It's an entire squad of people wielding AV weapons!

Also if you keep saying that it's fine why the F ing F are you constantly complaining about it. Not just complaining, saying that you need more firepower to deal with it. Either it's fine or it's not, don't do this pathetic "oh look I can be reasonable and nice" while you are lying about it. Yes I'm done with your crap.

It's not an exaggeration. If you hold one position, driving around on that position because a single position is not "stand still" which is the opposite of what I'm saying all the time but I'm sure that you are too dumb to guess that, then you can easily hold that position for 5 to 15 minutes if you have HESH. Ofcourse you still have to pick the right position. I'm sure you immediately tried to envision a tank sitting 2m away from the building it is trying to shell and then complaining about how it did not last 15 seconds once the infantry realized it wasn't going to move.

You don't understand a thing. I'm surprised that you know the concept of writing and that you can remember your password to log on again. I can probably beat you in a tank battle any day, because I am not an infantry person I play both tanks and infantry and I am good at tanks. Proof is for example in my Lightning HESH gun: Before CAI the HESH gun was deemed a death sentence to use against other vehicles. Yet back then (and still today) I killed as many vehicles per hour with my HESH gun as other players did with their AP gun. Nowadays the HESH gun is more or less on-par with AP guns unless you are doing a long-range fight.
I wouldn't be surprised if you still can't deal with enemy vehicles with your HESH. In fact I'm 100% certain of it because even with HESH equipped you can't even deal with infantry. Oh and the fact that you just said that HESH will die to enemy tanks even though that's no longer the case, that tipped me off as well.

And to think the new update I hear is nerfing HESH spam, nerfing the wrong things while the abused stuff goes untouched.

Man, I didn't know getting around 150 kills and 14 deaths running around in lightnings mostly was bad. I think it's pretty damn good. You know where all those kills came from? Picking off stragglers and ambushing vehicles in the rear. Not participating in the main part of the battle? Why? Because the HESH sucks and you're just a cert farm for other vehicles and infantry. Those kills came from AP and one HESH run camping a Sunderer from a mountain and I would just backup when they launched AT. You know what killed me? Another tank. They don't stop to take cover because you spawn in 3 seconds. Who gives a **** about dying if you re spawn almost instantly? Another moronic comment coming from your typing.

Please, record a video holding a door way in the middle of a battle for 5 to 15 minutes. I know you're full of **** and you just keep spouting it like a sprinkler full of bullsh*t.

No, I understand what you're saying, but it sounds stupid. Like you saying who cares if it takes 6 round to kill infantry? Really? That's the exact thing I am complaining about. That ******** right there. That's why you have nothing to saying. When you say, "What does it matter if it takes 6 rounds to kill infantry" .. that's where you show your crap and you have NOTHING constructive to add. HESH should mess up infantry, that's why you have tanks to counter and AT. You should hurt, you should be miserable by a tank focused on killing infantry. That tank has a counter .. it cannot kill other tanks. It's okay for you to get a tank to kill the tank slaughtering you.

No, it is not okay that Tanks, or any vehicle, or any Infantry, is hard-countered by something that is countered by itself.
It is not okay for an ESF to be the Counter for an ESF, while it hard-counters ground-existing.
Nor is it okay, for if a Tank has HEAT or HESH, to hard-counter any & all infantry in LOS of that Armored Vehicle, due to an AP tank countering it -- That means Infantry can not exist nor involve itself, if a Tank has LOS to any chokepoint or spawn, or anywhere Infantry have to be near - let alone that Armor is not always available, Attackers can casually shutdown any Vehicle Spawn point.

You don't spawn a MAX unit, and go "Well, this is an Anti-Armor Version, so those Tanks need to respawn as AI MAXes"
Should not do it as a Tank either - You already have the HP Advantage, Speed Advantage, Range Advantage, on top of AOE Damage (Vehicles do not take AOE damage, but they deal it in spades), You don't need to be a Hard-Counter to Infantry in LOS, on top, just due to your Main gun not being AP.
You have a Top-Gunner, grab a Kobalt, you don't need to be the "I'm a tank, Therefore Tanks are all I care about".
This isn't World-of-Tanks with Infantry as Target-Practice, Those are Players, Who's gameplay isn't meant to be running to a vehicle terminal, the moment a Tank gets LOS of them across even Miles of terrain (Prowlers, love this)

Like dear lord.
It is not okay to have the Hard-Counter require itself - we used to have AP-or-Go-Home MBTs, it was ******.
We have ESFs that are the Counter to themselves - Air Counters Air, while G2A blows chunks.
We don't need MBTs to be the same Cancer. Where if you aren't Piloting an MBT, you're required to spawn an MBT.

When a fragile flash can help break a heavily defended choke point. But a lightning or mbt cant. That said im not necessarily for upping the aoe output due to biased fury flash reasons. I lose enuff flashes instantly as it is already.

Yes that is mostly bad if you can only achieve it taking down stragglers and running from the smallest opposition. Also infantry does care about death. Death takes you out of the fight, it even takes you out of the game as you wait for respawn. Then you have to return to the fight, which also takes time. Do you really think infantry is OK with taking 30 seconds to a full minute after each death just to return to the fight with a vehicle and then risk dying again to a OHK shot?

And what is the problem about being killed by another tank? Something has to kill you, and despite all the Claimed AV that infantry threw at you it was a tank that killed you. Just goes to show how bad it is. But wait, the only reason you claim a tank killed you right now is because I said that HESH can be used in tank vs tank combat, and you are trying to "prove" with a single anecdotal death that suddenly HESH is useless against tanks.

Your attempts to create an argument biased into your vision of the game are transparant and are getting dumber.

I wonder if you know the term "hypocrite"? It applies to you.

"You should be miserable by a tank focused on killing infantry".

1: infantry already is miserable being focused on infantry.
2: why should infantry be miserable? Its a game, shouldnt we be making both infantry and vehicles to have fun? This isnt a matchmaking game with a limited amount of vehicle spawns and obstacles that create risks for retaliation at any time, this is PS2 where you could find 1 vehicle or 20 at your doorstep. You have to balance it and you have to make it fun. Your idea of "its not easy enough for me and I personally suck if I receive the slightest of retaliation" is moronic at best, deliberately aimed to ruin the game at worst.