[Suggestion] The Main Reason Infils Don't Work In PS2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TRspy007, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. LordKrelas

    When the Guy who is neutral in this, goes from being praised, to being attacked as if he was the enemy, inside a single page, you know things have gotten hilarious.
    Summary of the present "Reasonable" Positions.
    • Reason is now based on Where on stands on a debate; If one Side A, reasonable, if Side B, unreasonable.
    • Insults only happen, if their existence isn't inconvenient.
    • Having an opinion that isn't polarized is considered being the bad guy.
    • If you die to Snipers, It is apparently the only reasonable option to be dead-set on their extermination.
    • Head Shots With a Bullet & Body-Shots with an Explosive, are apparently on equal terms.
    • People Dehumanize themselves by not agreeing with a position.
    • Tanks not having one-shot capability with every tank cannon, is equal to Sniper Rifles.
    • Heavies not being anti-tank is related to Infil killing infantry.
    • Combined Arms, involves Heavies being Universal, but not Recon & Disruption Type Infantry.
    • New Player Experience suffers worse from Infils, but not One-Shot Tanks, C-4, Heavy-Assaults, MAXes, Aircraft.
    • All One-Shots are identical.
    • Below Average Skill, Means high amounts of Skill & Perception of Game Mechanics.
    • Infiltrator's Acclaimed Role is spotting. Need not be armed past a Pistol.
    • Constructive Arguments, are an Unyielding position that ignores any other position.
    • Solutions for the Problem, must appease One side heavily.
    • Problem is generally unclear.
    • KDR is how we measure effectiveness for Infiltrators but not Vehicles or other Classes.
    • Playing Since Beta, means God-like Perception, unless on the wrong position.
    • The Majority isn't Split on Infiltrators, unlike the very clearly split position on all similar subjects.
    Infiltrators, are apparently evil, look at the beautiful strong position, Pilots can't even touch this level of Position.
    Is the list unfairly worded? It's in the same fashion as the thread chain - Slanted.

    This thread chain is beautiful.
    Pnkdth, is having their work cut out though, holding the middle-ground on this, as this is a trip.
    • Up x 1
  2. TRspy007


    Amazing, perhaps the only thing you've correctly summarized for yourself. I guess if you give a monkey a typewriter, they eventually manage to put together a sentence that somewhat makes sense right?


    Buddy, if you have trouble reading, simply don't comment on posts. What are you even hoping to contribute by yelling 'THERE IS NO PROBLEM BLIND FOOL' when you have not the slightest clue of what's going on? Go to school, and let others who have a bit more education than you discuss matters where reading and basic logic comprehension is necessary. I'm sure you'll find ways to circle-jerk your pal irl.
  3. LordKrelas

    Thank you for proving the point.
    You are actually resorting to insults constantly, over-aggressively, and acclaiming posts to say what they don't.
    The Majority is split on Infiltrators, much like Vehicles, Explosives, Shotguns, and more.
    No one, not even me, in a single post, have claimed there isn't a problem with Infiltrators: The actual problem however, let alone solution or degree, is what no agrees on.

    In this post however, you have insulted me , 3-5+ Times in 1 post, in an aggressive manner.
    While not addressing a single thing I actually said.

    Now on the actual subject, if you can abstain from personal attacks for more than half a sentence, is About Infiltrators.
    Your notion about Damage Scaling up by Distance, was interesting but as I asked, ages ago, which went un-addressed, was a concern about where their effective damage is?
    Is their present damage capability on head-shots, starting at their furthest range?
    In which case, the practical usage of the rifles will be a bit difficult, as not everywhere can you reach 200-300 meter distances.
    NC in particular, if we use Max range for the present, would need to suffer the full effective of gravity & Velocity, to get their intended damage.
    This could be resolved at middle-ground of range, and could stop the CQC Bolting slightly.
    Though, the 2nd issue will be the unreliable damage profile, and how to handle the distance scaling.

    I did like , I believe Pk's (It's been days.), idea about reducing Body-shot Damage.
    This makes the Sniper rifle logically more effective if used for Head-shots, and reduces the two-tap body-shot capability which is noticeably easier, without making the Weapon bad at killing; It refines the weapon's strength, and reduces the margin for error.
    Yet does this, without gimping the gun, for what it is designed for.

    Okay, that's the sniper rifles aspect: They're precise weapons.

    Now, can we have a proper conversation? Can you bring up suggestions & your input, on these concerns?
    Without trying to insult my Education, preferably, as that is counter-productive.
  4. TRspy007

    No insult, if like the other dude you are illiterate and comfortable with it, then it's just a fact and an explanation for why the "conversation" has gone nowhere.

    "'lieu' is Latin, you ignorant cretin.
    You are about 1000 years too young to be as full of **** as you are."

    If you wish to pass yourself off as an illiterate arrogant fool, your arguments will be treated as such. If you are like this and adventure yourself in solidly affirming things can literally can not change, and miserably fail to read a basic dictionary definition and question yourself upon research of something you know little to nothing about, how do you expect me to take you seriously when you start discussing things that can be controversial? Granted, unlike the thing that dehumanized himself doing so, you have not yet shown any concrete proof of your inability to read, which is why I still reply assuming you just have trouble understanding my argument.

    If you're actually capable of reading and interested in what I had to say (which surprises me considering you pretty much said somewhere you're not gonna bother reading anything that goes against your view) you can pretty much scroll past the thread and read for yourself.

    "Greetings I wish to inform you, Halo has Invisibility; Where you don't see anything. As it isn't visible.
    Planetside; you can see the Infiltrator in full Cloak. As it is visible.
    Darklights are to not make invisible objects seen, they are to Light them up, so it goes from visible to NEON BRIGHT LIGHT.

    The rest I couldn't be bothered."

    "If you can see it, it ain't Invisible.
    It's Visible. No wonder you can't manage to kill an Infiltrator, you apparently can't see."



    "Blind Fool."


    Just one thing you forgot in your attempt to vilify me and try to pin me as using insults to cover up the fact I have nothing valuable to say...that was an extract of your first reply lol. So if you're gonna act like you were being all rational and open to discussion until I bombarded you with insults, you can cut the sh*t. Sure, the guy who replies with insults is just about as dumb as the dude who started it. But don't try acting like you're an innocent little victim, because you are the instigator.


    Now as I've said about 100 times, there's a few problems regarding the class, which makes it an annoyance for others, and frustrating for new players.
    • Snipers conserve a 1hk effective range up close and past the effective range of almost every other weapon other classes have access to. This means a good sniper can pick a bolt of his choice, be effective up close and far with no need to change weapons. The weapon is in a sense to versatile with the 1hk capability, when makes it a direct upgrade from shotguns or the deringer.
    • Their weapons are also quite forgiving, even if the shot hits the body, it's a 2 hit kill. This can be quite annoying because it does not promoted "skilled" play. As you point out, a nice solution would be to make bolts have very little effect unless going for the head. This would also help give some more value to the full auto/semi auto options.
    • Infils can indeed become invisible, or more or less hard to see depending on settings, positioning, lighting, and their movement. Now in a game where we aren't just fighting infils, this means they are easily able to camouflage themselves and avoid being detected. This is key because added health in a game like this does not amount to much. A max or a shielded heavy will die pretty fast when there's a bunch of people shooting at them. The key to survival in this game is stealth, which is why the infil's ability is so powerful.
    • In a game where there's server lag and client extrapolation, these fast ttk (1hk) weapons along with the cloak start to pose a bigger problem. The infiltrator is able to instagib a person before they can react, as I've explained, they can shoot while still appearing cloaked on the other guy's screen. Since they conserve that ability at any range that will realistically be the grounds for an engagement, they can be at a significant advantage. As I mentioned to another guy, there was this infiltrator lagging so hard he was basically teleporting and instagibbing people while cloaked. On a smaller scale, it can mean the newer players can get confused being sniped out of nowhere, and seeing nothing on the death cam.
    • In planetside, thanks to extrapolation, it's not hard to get people to stay moving in one direction for a split second (varies depending on your ping/lat), remain invisible on their screen even though you already shot your round on yours, etc. Infils benefit the most from this because of their 1hk ability. I'm not gonna diminish the skill of some players, but realistically some of the things they did weren't realistic and can only be explained due to a significant lat advantage over a user. Nothing wrong with that, it's the game mechanics. However, they are very simple to abuse, especially with 1hk weapons.
    • Now onto the reason why this is mostly a newer player experience issue: most snipers pick out easy targets. As you mention, not everyone is a master sniper, just like not everyone is a master heavy. A lot of infiltrators will prefer to use their cloak ability to stay back and pick off afk/slow moving targets at long-medium ranges, because they simply lack the ability/ping to reliably chain headshots and become CQC beasts I've seen a few bolters become. This usually means the newer players which are the "children" of the fight will often be an infil's prime choice. It's already annoying enough to lose more than half your health or get finished off after an engagement by a sniper, but for new players, they are just sniper food in most scenarios, which we can hopefully agree isn't very fun.
    So what can we obtain from this and the "stats" (see previous posts) presented to us?
    1. Like air, the infiltrator is and extremely potent and near impossible to counter class when mastered/at a ping advantage.
    2. Infils are either really skilled/ping favored and contribute to fights by actually clearing rooms before other classes can even react, or they sit in the back trying to get some easy kills to pad their kdr. Sure, the first type of infil helps out his team not by giving them intelligence or hacking, but by simply wiping out everyone at the fight. The latter, more frequent type of infiltrator does not really contribute much to a fight, and serves more as an hindrance and a frustration to newer players than anything else.
    3. Their 1hk capability is extremely flexible, and as you mention the weapons they use are weapons of precision. Stealth + 1hk potential + precision + clientside = big cheese.
    It could be potentially "solved" by a few solutions.
    1. Simply removing the class.
    2. Developing ways to actually get the class to engage in combined arms play (unsure what this would look like)
    3. Implementing a delay before firing after uncloaking similar to the minor cloak, and/or perhaps a short cooldown before the cloak can be activated again, would vary based on the type of cloak equipped.
    4. Not allowing primary weapons with a cloak equipped. Give the infiltrator 1000hp, and off they go, or giving other medic/engineer classes access to snipers. Basically a Planetside 1 hybrid approach.
    5. Reducing the damage of bodyshots form bolt actions.
    6. Implementing specific effective ranges for each of the bolt actions. (For example, one would only be effective up to 100 meters, one would only start being effective after 100 meters, etc). So basically they would actually have to think about their loadout, and decide how they get into the weapons effective range.
    7. Re-balancing headshots/resistances. This would have to be done for every class, but reducing headshot multiplies would be a good idea in general. Make bolts execute infils and require commissioner style hs + bs or 2 hs to kill other targets.
    8. Just delete stalker cloak/rework it so it's not indefinite. Seriously, what's even the point if that cloak in a combined arms game.
    9. I'd be open to other solutions, but they gotta acknowledge the problem and actually solve it as a whole. Balancing bolts is a start, but there's also a problem with the cloaking ability.
  5. LordKrelas

    If you can't be civil, to the point where you declare it Not an insult, to spend half your entire response to negative insulting implications... to then have half your post following, a request for a civil conversation, be greeted with utter rot.
    You need to learn to not be emotional.

    Quote me, down to the Page number, if you wish to make claims, to be taken seriously.
    As, I'm pretty sure, I have not stated that I won't read anything that doesn't agree with me.

    But lets' humor this again.

    Sniper rifles, and their One-shot, relies entirely on accurately hitting the Head.
    In close-range, This means you must not miss - Now, the CQC Aspect with follow-up body shots to reduce this cost of a miss, was addressed with pk's notion.
    It is a single shot, No shotgun is a single shot, nor reliant on the head.
    They are focused on Alpha-Damage.

    This is a slight bit inaccurate, unless the opponent is incapable of return-fire
    However, that is why I agreed with Pk's Body-shot Reduction - It is however not discouraging skilled play, that this exists.
    I pointed out Pk's suggestion not mine.

    Invisibility is not their constant power, this notion, is treated as common rather than situation specific.
    The cloak does not assist in surviving an engagement itself - there is a reason, fights are led by HA's, not Infiltrators.
    It is used, for assisting disengagement, and assisting an attack - Surprise is powerful yes, but isn't limited to Cloaks.

    -- Lets just jump to the next, as this is literally a repeat, of the entire thread.


    'So what can we obtain from this and the "stats" (see previous posts) presented to us?
    1. Like air, the infiltrator is and extremely potent and near impossible to counter class when mastered/at a ping advantage.
    2. Infils are either really skilled/ping favored and contribute to fights by actually clearing rooms before other classes can even react, or they sit in the back trying to get some easy kills to pad their kdr. Sure, the first type of infil helps out his team not by giving them intelligence or hacking, but by simply wiping out everyone at the fight. The latter, more frequent type of infiltrator does not really contribute much to a fight, and serves more as an hindrance and a frustration to newer players than anything else.
    3. Their 1hk capability is extremely flexible, and as you mention the weapons they use are weapons of precision. Stealth + 1hk potential + precision + clientside = big cheese.'
    Air, has only Deterrent Style weapons by design, TTK advantage in all weapons, Fastest Speed, Built-in Perks, AOE Damage.
    Infiltrators, can be killed by any weapon, have less health, have identical speed, and are even land-locked.
    Land-Mines work against Infils, as does any weapon, which will kill; Air does not have land-mines, Air does not rest on ambushes, nor Head-shots, It relies on AOE & upfront DPS.
    Ping Advantage works for any Class, and is focused on Attacking; Response is limited, regardless of Class.
    High Ping also effects Decloak & Recloak Delays, IE that's a weapon-lock.
    Infiltrators do not clear rooms; They are specialized at single-target elimination not groups.
    The majority of Infiltrators are not skilled; They're Hill Humpers.
    The tactics that allow an infil to kill a single target, do not stack up in engaging a group;
    The Infil's clip size even with an SMG, isn't high enough nor is the DPS good enough.
    Bolt-Actions have a Chamber Time too long to kill a 2nd target, in an Enclosed-space, before being shot themselves.
    The highest HP of an Infiltrator, is under the Cloak; This does not help in clearing a room.
    If you can clear a room, with the time needed to unload per target, reload, and engage multiple targets; I suggest a shotgun or carbine, on a Medic, or Heavy-Assault, as then your Ability is actually helpful in engaging multiple targets.
    LA's, at best get a different angle, to cash in on surprise by unexpected entry point for a flank, but not past the first target.
    If it's a single-target; Sure.
    Infiltrators kill too slowly to erase opponents from a base, before anyone else can reach them.
    A Bolt-Action is certainly not doing it, as Chamber Speed alone, per shot, the mass of cover, and reload times.
    An SMG, is also not, even if every target was isolated, that infiltrator would have to teleport, or be under 3 guys in an entire base - that are clueless.
    The most common Infiltrator is a Bolt-action; NC starts with one - and that ain't doing jack in CQC.
    TR & VS start with Semi-Auto's, these are not new Infils, that would survive CQC fights, let alone clear rooms.
    New Infils, are on Hills usually - the ones that aren't, are not clearing rooms either, they're maybe SMG's or Knives.
    Knives aren't clearing a base either.
    Flexibility is relative, but the Body-shot backup is something resolvable without crippling Sniper rifles.
    --
    '
    It could be potentially "solved" by a few solutions.
    1. Simply removing the class.
    2. Developing ways to actually get the class to engage in combined arms play (unsure what this would look like)
    3. Implementing a delay before firing after uncloaking similar to the minor cloak, and/or perhaps a short cooldown before the cloak can be activated again, would vary based on the type of cloak equipped.
    4. Not allowing primary weapons with a cloak equipped. Give the infiltrator 1000hp, and off they go, or giving other medic/engineer classes access to snipers. Basically a Planetside 1 hybrid approach.
    5. Reducing the damage of bodyshots form bolt actions.
    6. Implementing specific effective ranges for each of the bolt actions. (For example, one would only be effective up to 100 meters, one would only start being effective after 100 meters, etc). So basically they would actually have to think about their loadout, and decide how they get into the weapons effective range.
    7. Re-balancing headshots/resistances. This would have to be done for every class, but reducing headshot multiplies would be a good idea in general. Make bolts execute infils and require commissioner style hs + bs or 2 hs to kill other targets.
    8. Just delete stalker cloak/rework it so it's not indefinite. Seriously, what's even the point if that cloak in a combined arms game.
    9. I'd be open to other solutions, but they gotta acknowledge the problem and actually solve it as a whole. Balancing bolts is a start, but there's also a problem with the cloaking ability.'
    Removing a Class, is not a good solution; If it was, We'd have removed many many things.
    It is an Class, with no proper AV, but has a dedicated role.
    What is your version of Combined-Arms? No other class past Engineer helps vehicles, and only 2 even are AV capable.
    Infiltrators can't kill anything but other Infantry, They're casual road-kill to any vehicle.
    Medics Have more AV than them, and Crossbows barely count - Let alone, it also takes Infil's dart toys.
    There is a delay before you can fire, with the cloak; It's short.
    If the delay is lengthened, Infiltrators will be unable to use their equipment without near suicide, if SMG or any short-range weapon - past totally oblivious opponents, and this doesn't mention client-side making that decloak even longer.
    Long-Range Infils will experience near no issue: Victims will not notice.
    As Clientside.
    Stalker Infils say hi.
    Inability to fire Twice, or once, Will occur to Snipers; SMGs will be inferior options entirely.
    This is why Snipers cloak after every shot - and why ARCHER Engineers, get shot so damn easily.
    Sniper Rifles, on Medics & Engineers, will mean, they get to shoot once, if that, before death.
    We discussed Body-shots, so yes.
    6), At last, the ranges.
    Not desirable, but still workable; Also everyone with an optimal range already thinks about load-out.
    CQC Bolters are a rare-breed, when hacks aren't involved; As that is needing the first shot to be perfect, and to escape the moment it is fired, as no crowd-control.
    So, the end result, is some very funky problems, in using the weapon - As not only is Body-shot reduced but also head-shots, till the Rifle must combat full bullet-drop & velocity, making every single shot even more of a bastard to land.
    Yet the 2-shot Finisher is still there - so Experts will have no issue, only CQC.
    But they'll switch to Knife & Crossbow, so not even then, is there a victory.
    Past CQC Bolters (as in, 5 meters distance, not 20 meters), Managing to nail the head of a target, that is moving, at a distance, is not an easy shot in the slightest.
    After the first shot, the target panics & moves even more - and with damage fall-off, all manner of weapons would be affected.
    Let alone the different types of Bolters, some of which, are VS, specifically 2, which will not notice much for landing the shot.
    While others, already have a firing-delay, so would need 2 perfect accuracy shots to kill something at perfect accuracy, to the head.
    Hence the body-shot Reduction, being preferred - Though Headshots past Snipers, are a ripe subject in general.
    Demigan has a better list on how to handle that beast, that I won't even attempt to touch as, my gods, it is long.
    Cloaking ability is not broken; It blocks weapon usage, now can't capture (why it could anyway in the first place), has limited energy, and is perfect for reaching sniper-positions, engaging in recon, and allows ambushes more effectively.
    Combined-Arms, does not mean every soldier fights on the same bridge, by the same tactics, nor is useless.
    They mesh; Infiltrators form the vanguard, scouting, and disrupting enemy lines & rear units, while providing supporting-fire.
    Heavy Assaults form the front-line, and are capable of engaging literally any threat.
    Medics & Engineers form the Back Line, Supporting allies & Armored units, reinforcing the front.
    Light-Assaults, form the 2nd line, providing adaptive & aggressive pushers, providing dynamic assaults on hardened positions, and additional disruption support & anti-vehicle assistance.
    MAXES are Heavy Support, though they're lacking half the tools & firepower to do it.
    Heavy Assaults, have more roles in any conflict, than any other class. A tool for every situation.
    Light Assaults follow behind them.
    Medics & Engineers, (Medics at lowest usage rate), are typically expected to support allies.
    Infiltrators pick off lone-wolves, disrupt formations (That's SMG & Stalkers), Recon, and kill prime targets (Enemy Medics, Engineers)
    If the problem is Bolts, that can be addressed - as That one, is actually easy to address.
    Cloaking on Infiltrators, is actually quite limited;
    If it gets hit by the Implant's effects, it will barely be able to function.
    If it locks main-weapons; Most of the Infiltrator's Weapons will basically be near suicide on the class.
    Stalkers, basically avoiding combat, past duels, is a grand example.
    Client-Side will always be an issue, as it's not class-specific, and even murders Infils - as it has no allies, it hits everyone. (clientside)
    Clientside basically favors anything that attacks first.
    As that's how it works.
    Summary;
    Body-shots, Yes.
    Range: Really questionable.
    Cloaking; Not much that wouldn't make Infiltrators incapable of functioning past shooting dead-people.
  6. TRspy007



    I literally quoted your exact words in my previous reply, but I can add the time/page stamp if that humors you.

    "The rest I couldn't be bothered."
    "Blind Fool."

    -LordKrelas, Apr 21, 2020, reply number 44, page 3


    AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, you're the one who opened up the reply by throwing "insults", when you didn't even have a clue of what was going on. And please, your turn, explain to me where I've insulted you in my previous reply?

    I feel like you are the one getting emotional. If you can't handle insults, don't open up your starting reply with some...? Otherwise I will happily oblige to interject a few functional tests to your intelligence between my points.

    I also stated that clientside is not singular to infils, it simply favors 1hk weapons, and for that reason and the cloak, puts the class in general above others.

    Hackers are an anomaly, and the rare ones that hack get banned usually in a day. Not quite sure what that has to do with anything I just said.

    Every infantry weapon has an effective range, except bolts which do not seem limited up close and up far (please, 300m is not an "effective range") when most weapons drop off past 100 metres max.

    "We'd have removed many many things." but we have.

    "The majority of Infiltrators are not skilled; They're Hill Humpers."

    "Infiltrators pick off lone-wolves, disrupt formations (That's SMG & Stalkers), Recon, and kill prime targets (Enemy Medics, Engineers)"


    I'm not quite sure how to interpret this one. Most infiltrators aren't skilled, but you expect me to then believe they are going to go 007 mode and do "skilled" things? So it's a problem of the people using the class simply don't play the way the class is designed to work. Therefore, the class currently doesn't serve a role in the combined arms, save for a few rare cases.

    Yes, the MAX is pretty much in the same spot now (misuaused, does not synergize with the combined arms focus), but the main focus of this thread was infils, I will probably make another discussion about MAXes another time.

    Also I've seen certain players that are able to clear a room with their CQC bolt. Sure, a small portion of the community, but that's not a figment of my imagination. I can't quote his name (due to forum policies), but the main one that comes to mind actively plays NC on Connery, so you'll likely get to witness his skilled plays an a CQC bolter there.


    I also mentioned that the other classes get darts thanks to the crossbow, where I was immediately flamed because the darts only last 20 seconds and strip you of your primary, so I'll just say that infil recon devices > crossbow darts.



    My idea of a combined arms is a combined arms game. Right now, air dominates, ground vehicles are either too squishy or too bulky, infantry is in a weird state, and the focus is on adding fight killing additions to zergfits. Infils aren't the only problem, but it's a start.

    Headshots should be addressed in general, but after that, there's still a problem with infils having such a powerful ability. And stalker cloaking....smh, what does that bring to the game? You say infils are useless unless they are packed with weapons like Rambo, so we could at least agree stalker that infils are nothing more than a troll for capture points?

    Also it doesn't really sound like you played PS1 before, maybe check out what was successful and what wasn't from that game when you have the time?


    Basically, you say my suggestions are not viable because the class would then require skill to play.....
  7. pnkdth

    I'd love to see infiltrator becoming more of a covert operator, i.e. creating jamming fields with devices which obscure friendlies within a dome like the medics shield regen field and EMP darts which takes out radar in the area for a time. This would naturally make the infiltrator want to get in to close while allies have an incentive to move with the infiltrator.

    This would require some changes though: + = pros, - = cons.
    - Reduced bodyshot damage with BASRs (however, the bigger cousins obviously hurts more than the close range version).
    - Introduce delay in de-cloaking.
    + quicker cloaking.
    + remove audio from cloak.
    + Slight buff to scout rifles (making them more accurate both in ADS and Hipfire) to make then actually competitive choices. Also, since they are pushed to get closer and have longer de-cloak the player is required to make each shot count.

    I agree with Stalker being poorly implemented. It seems like an attempt to imitate the PS1 infiltrator but there's not much for it to do. If we had the hex system you could at the very least set up bases for capture and do some shenanigans but within the lattice system the point of attack is always predictable (which is why I think the "anti-radar/intelligence" type of play would be more suitable and while also being interesting). The Stalker in this case could be used with 750 effective health and more effective disruption, effectively turning the class into a super vulnerable stealth operative and since you only got a sidearm you really need to lean in into not getting seen (much like other support classes can get +exp for whatever sneaky stuff they do).

    All in all, the best case scenario (for reducing OHKs) is probably going to be tweaks and compromise. That said, they did do an entire vehicle balance pass so maybe not.
    • Up x 2
  8. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Some type of jamming field device to protect from motion detection is needed regardless, although I would be more inclined to give it to the Engineer or have it shared between Engie and Infil.
    I wouldn't remove the cloak audio. That is probably the primary method to discover the presence of an infiltrator in your area. Knowing when and how much to cloak is a big skill separator for Infils for this exact reason.

    The Scouts are competitive as they are now, don't really see a need to change those. Although if your goal is to move them closer an ACC buff won't do much, their current accuracy is more than adequate. Similarly a hipfire buff won't do too much since you won't be spending too much time hipfiring with a weapon class of <20 round mags. I'd love to see some faction flavor to these guns since they're all copy-paste but you can't make them too much stronger without breaking something.

    Instead of a delay to de-cloaking, delay re-cloaking. You accomplish much the same thing without screwing up everyone's muscle memory. The Infil can take his initial shot in much the same way, but the onus is on him to have a place to retreat to afterwords, or to risk being exposed if he wants to take a follow-up shot.
    Stalkers can be fixed by simply giving them stuff to do. Right now the only thing they can do that a normal Infil can't do better is sit in the open for prolonged periods and not be killed.

    In Halo Reach the cloak ability creates false contacts on your opponents' radar, I wonder how adding in a similar mechanic for Stalkers when they are cloaked might play out. Something to tip off that you are around without being too obvious about it. No idea how broken or useless it might be, though.
    That patch wasn't exactly received with trumpets and fanfare, and the number of vehicle players compared to those who main infantry is fractional. The chances of an infantry 'balance pass' on the order of CAI are minimal. This is simply a thought experiment, or potentially a wishlist for PS3 somewhere in the distant future.

    You have been passive aggressive and condescending since your first post, openly hostile for almost as long, and your sole tactic is to strawman your opponent's argument to the point where you may as well be debating a blank wall. This is neither clever nor revolutionary tactics, so do not be surprised when people get tired of your ******** and take you out behind the woodshed. You have absolutely no leg to stand on where anyone else's conduct here is concerned.
    "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table."
    • Up x 1
  9. TRspy007



    I like that idea. To take it even a step further, the infiltrator could deploy a sort of jamming field that would make infantry "invisible" to vehicles without the use of NV optics. Would help counter air a bit, and give the infils some appreciation on the battlefield.

    Maybe even make EMPs cut off vehicles abilities/ignition for a short time. I saw the new SMG under-barrel attachment will shoot EMPs for the infiltrator class, why not make these EMPs have special effects on vehicles?

    However I still think there should be a cloaking delay like the minor cloak, or at least a cool-down before being able to cloak again, to help prevent some bizarre things from happening.
    • Up x 1
  10. TRspy007

    Even more additions:

    like triage, the infiltrator when in a vehicle could render nearby friendlies/vehicles invisible to radar, the counter to this would be the "threat detection" optics. Would encourage some sort of stealthy combined arms flanks hopefully.

    The infil obviously would need to be more competitive, because now they would have to use their cloak intelligently with the decloak delay + re-cloak cool-down.

    I propose the infiltrator could get 200 shields and 800 hp and a built in resistance to emps/flash/concussion. In this manner, they can actually support players during certain situations, and they can also run the vampire implant with no need for carapace (to encourage some aggressive pistol + knife playstyle).

    Increase cloak duration, maybe add an "adrenaline cloak" that reduces the cool-down of the re-cloak and recharges it upon a kill, and/or add that to an implant.

    Allow shield recharge/regen/medkits to take effect while cloaked, without the visual effects.

    I don't have enough imagination to see how they could salvage the stalker cloak though.


    A very potential/iffy addition:

    Allow the infiltrator to create passages through certain walls/objects. The point of this would be to encourage them to work as a team to break from choke points, and engage enemies from areas where they do not expect. For obvious reasons, I'm unsure if this could realistically implemented in game, but I think it could be pretty cool; the counter to this would be an engineer (hopefully they are removing turrets for everyone else soon) who has put down his spitfire to get a little warning of the flank. Additionally they could remove the "radar invisibility" the infiltrator can give to his surrounding teammates when he has this special ability equipped, so their snooping could be picked up by enemy infils.
    • Up x 1
  11. Zhakathoom

    Cloack, or invisibility in any form really, is a terrible, terrible thing to have in a game where players go against eachoter. It gives too much of an advantage. Especially when there is no disadvantage to counterweigh it.

    And then there is the clientside issue. I've stared down sights at a spot I knew there was an infil, only to instantly die before he decloaks. It's just..no fun for anyone other than the infiltrator. And there is just sooo many of them exploiting this cheesy advantage to **** other players (newbs) of their fun in what they feel is an unfair engagement.
    • Up x 1
  12. Johannes Kaiser

    It would not be that bad, wouldn't there be so friggin' many of them. I remember times when Infiltrators were rather uncommon. Then again, other classes had their OP times, so this too shall pass (I hope).
    • Up x 2
  13. pnkdth


    Cloaks have a short duration (with the exception of Stalker cloak but then you're also giving up your primary), visible when moving, makes a pretty loud sound when cloaking and de-cloaking, and you cannot shoot while cloaked. The abilities of each class is made to fit their battlefield role. As such, I wouldn't say it has no disadvantages.

    The HA can increase its effective health with its over-shield and carries tools to deal with both infantry and vehicles, a combat medic can heal and revive (and have access to the amazing ress grenade), the LA can reach and outflank in ways no other class can (and is very strong against vehicles and MAX units due to C4 and rocklets), and so on, so forth.

    We're currently talking about solutions to the cloak and clientside (the last few pages in particular) and other stuff. Since we've already had a rather exhaustive discussion on the problem itself and we're aware (of the fun factor, clientside, and so on). What do you think would add more fun and reduce frustration while also making sure the infiltrator stays relevant in other ways?
  14. NCLH

    If you have played Team Fortress 2 you will have noticed that uncloacing of the spy is takes 1 second. If the cloaker should be a sniper in the first place this would be apropriate.
  15. pnkdth


    One direction could be using the Hunter Cloak as a longer duration cloak but with 1 second de-cloak timer (which actually would suit the name better since you are quite literally out hunting). Then the NAC restrictions you from using BASRs cementing its role for an infiltrator who wants to get up close (but remains functionally the same), finally the Stalker restricting you from using primaries altogether (as it is now).

    This would be a quick fix but at least it would make the choice of cloak more important while facilitating each play style.