[Suggestion] The Main Reason Infils Don't Work In PS2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TRspy007, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. pnkdth


    Yeah, that is more or less the point. Make them truly high risk/high reward by making body shots less useful. However, I do not think this need apply for 6x and up BASRs since they're already limited in their use (if anyone here wants to claim 6x scopes are useful in CQC I want to see them start using 6x scopes on their LMGs/ARs, etc, etc).

    I agree, I do not think the drastic changes suggested in this thread are realistic. But I am not wholly opposed to adjustments either but if those adjustments take away they must also add things in other relevant areas. Since there is no data to suggest they are over-performing it cannot simply be a straight up nerf.
    • Up x 1
  2. Lovecraft180

    The CQC snipers ruin almost every fight.If you don't see a problem in this matter you have to play sniper as main yourself. You don't need any statistical analysis. I just played 90 minutes. The fights were fun as long as there were only 1 or 2 sniper. In the last 30 minutes there were so many cqc sniper that it became unbearable to play as infantry. I hope that there will be noticeable adjustments in this matter by the developers, but I doubt it. I will stop with PS2 now. I won't do that to myself anymore and not a single cent of mine will be put into this game.
    • Up x 1
  3. Scatterblak

    Translation: "Waaahh waaahh, I don't like some other class that I don't do well against, so instead of me werking my skillz up they should all just go away."

    Dude, if you don't like it, go play CS or something. Some of us like playing inf, and most of us have gotten pretty good at countering them.
  4. TRspy007


    You mind taking your head out your *** for 2 seconds?


    I've poured more hours into this game than you ever will, I can point out issues I've noticed and seen others discussed. I play all classes, infils the least ofc, but that didn't stop me from completing it's directives on all the factions.

    I'm pointing out the unnecessary cheese they bring to the game, because yes, most new players do not like 1hk abilities, and combined with their cloak and and clientside, they can do some pretty weird things, that players checking out the game aren't used to.

    Honey, it's great that you've found yourself a playstyle, and that you developed "skillz" to counter infils as an infil. The problem is you're not the game's source of income. The game can't afford to redirect people to "CS or something", it needs players. Instead of being a donkey about it, either don't comment or find other suggestions to improve the new player experience.

    Are you that ******* stupid that you seriously think you commented something intelligent? Honestly, open your eyes you goofy ****
  5. Lovecraft180

    As you can see right here: Talking to infiltrator players about problems caused by too many infiltrators is like talking to a lobbyist. They use strange arguments, which are basically only used to keep their own selfish play style alive. It is so easy to see through.
    • Up x 2
  6. LordKrelas

    You do realize this Thread chain, shows Anti-Infil has the same problem with 'strange' arguments.
    Or you're the alt of the guy who's sig is "TOO MANY INFILTRATORS", cause' he saw more than 2 while in the middle of the hills.

    Like lets take this away from Personal attacks; Which both sides love.
    But this Opening Thread, is not a beacon of light, for Anti-Infil; Kinda the opposite.
  7. Lovecraft180

    From the 2 you can easily make a 3 and that you have forgotten a 0 can also happen.
  8. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Fair enough.
    • Up x 1
  9. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Looking at the title and wording of this thread I think it's pretty clear that reasoned, rational discussion on this topic was never intended. This thread was created to deliberately stir the pot. Full stop.

    I think you are misunderstanding the key point of contention: Evidence. We have one side asking for drastic gameplay changes based solely on personal feelings, preferences and biases, while the other side is rightfully calling them out on this and asking for something more concrete.

    That's it. That's not "making weird arguments", that is asking for evidence. The burden of proof is on the side making the claim, so if you are claiming a nerf is necessary you had better be able deliver proof that an issue requiring the nerf exists in the first place. Thus far none has been forthcoming aside from personal anecdotes and hearsay. And insults, lest we forget which side decided to open that Pandora's Box.

    Simply put, rational discourse on a topic is not possible so long as one side treats any disagreement or questioning of their position as a deadly insult that must be responded to with vitriol.
    • Up x 1
  10. Lovecraft180

    Evidence ? you got to be kidding me. Take off your sniper suit and play some other class. You got over 60?! Days of sniper play and you want proof from someone else? You don't know what people are talking about. Play some serious time another classes and then I'll talk to you again. With someone who has no idea how other players feel when they are ****** by snipers like you is absolutely useless. First expand your horizon. Although I'm pretty sure what your reasons are for playing sniper excessively.
  11. TRspy007


    lol dude I've shown him all the stats possible, he's quoted them himself. The guy just has trouble reading. Apparently he can't wrap his head around a basic dictionary definition, so don't expect any reading comprehension from him past phrases like "goo-goo ga-ga". Maybe if you tried to explain in pictures/memes/gifs? And still, apparently he's played the game for a little bit, and he still doesn't even observe what's going on. lol, it's pretty pathetic, anything outside his 12x zoom escapes his sh*t covered gaze.

    Just let him be, you're wasting you time arguing with someone who doesn't even understand what they're looking at, much less analyze any "evidence" you and themselves provide them with.

    let the thread die, it's nothing more than a troll at this point.
  12. pnkdth


    If you cannot provide such data then focus on the argument you have. It really isn't a good look to continue to insult players who happen to play a class you don't like. Your problem is with the class, is it not? What's the point in making things personal?
    • Up x 1
  13. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Three things, bud:
    1. If you genuinely want a discussion you might try quoting the one you are responding to instead of taking potshots. It makes you look like you're hoping to avoid a response. I'm sure this isn't the case.

    2. If you're going to look at statistics you may as well do it correctly. You know my account names and I'm sure you know how to navigate to DA or the fisu. Plenty of my recent playtime has been with other classes and weapons, even on my oldest account which you seem inclined to cherry pick data from. My NC account, which is my most recent, doesn't have any Infil playtime at all. Certainly this was an honest error on your part and you are neither that lazy nor that disingenuous.

    3. Don't be a ****. If you want to launch insults, be a big boy and come right out and say them. No one here's going to tell your mum.

    You have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no interest in rational discussion. You have taken every possible opportunity to misrepresent the things I and others have said, often to the point of absurdity. Not just in this thread but in previous ones as well. You post huge walls of text that amount to nothing more than insults, projection and word salad while at the same time having the gall to accuse others of being unreasonable. You have shifted the goalposts every time someone points out a flaw in your argument while the whole time seeking to shift into an attack on the other person in lieu of attacking their argument.

    The whole time you have done this, you have still completely and categorically failed to prove any of the arguments you have made beyond the point of repeating "I simply find Infiltrator boring and unfair" only with more word-padding. Nothing is forcing you to participate in this thread, it certainly isn't as though your presence is required. Unless perhaps you feel threatened by the concept of discussion on the subject if it doesn't push your agenda?

    But if you really want the thread to die feel free to go beg a Mod to lock it, although given your conduct here I don't know if attracting the attention of Moderation is your wisest move.
    • Up x 1
  14. TRspy007


    What data would you like to see to prove that invisible 1hk classes are at an advantage thanks to the clientside nature of the game?


    I've already linked data to shown that the infil is the second most played class, because for some reason infils are ok because the heavy isn't. Also linked they get the least deaths and usually the highest or second highest number of kills.

    I'll assume you've played Planetside 2 before, have you not observed that 1hk can lead to potentially weird situations? Combined with the cloak that makes the enemy hard to find and allows for the class to pause and line up their shot, then cloak to escape, we've got a class oriented on doing little more than farming kdr. Although the thread was meant really to explain the issue behind giving a cloaked class 1hk capabilities, stalkers also bring very little to the game, and serve(d) more as an annoyance than anything else, thankfully, they can only cap outdoor points now, so that's a little plus I guess.

    Read some other threads/comments on the forums, hear discussions in /yell about it, there's clearly a problem with the infiltrator fitting into the game.


    As for trying to play the victim with 'but mommy, he's insulting us". First off, I don't recall insulting you, nor do I think you have insulted anyone. As for the other guy(s) desperately trying to defend the infil by fusing whatever words they've found online together, they opened up their replies by insults (if I recall one said 'infils aren't invisible you blind fool' as his first reply to the thread lol), the war followed. Not the smartest thing to continue the back and forth, but apparently one of them legit cannot read and the other feels like he doesn't need to, since no one can oppose him - so I doubt any of my "insults" have actually been read by anyone.


    There's a reason why many of the newer players have tried to recreate the bizarre things they've seen other inflils do by picking up an infil themselves. Yesterday there was a guy lagging so hard he was basically teleporting and killing people while cloaked with his sniper. I get it, that's not a common thing, but on smaller scales the advantage of the cloak and the 1hk usually means the other guy is dead before he can even react. For me it's usually an annoyance to get stripped of half my health, or finished off by a sniper after winning a 3 v 1. For newer players though, I can only imagine how frustrating it is to deal with them, based on the /yell and posts I have seen on reddit/forums, and for good reason. Why did we remove the 1hk capabilities from rockets and tanks in the first place? Why did they make shotguns so situational and random? Why did they make the PS1 infiltrator the way it was? Now why in their "balancing" scheme, have they overlooked one of the most cheesy ways new players die?
  15. pnkdth


    We've already been through this and I was responding to his post.

    I'm also not "trying to play the victim", unless it is a part of victim mentality to want to have a constructive discussion as opposed to listening to his rant + him putting everyone who disagree with him on a box he called lobbyist. Pretty ironic since he, himself, put up a very "us versus them" argument. Though next time I'll probably just ignore him till he makes a cohesive argument.

    "I'll assume you've played Planetside 2 before", been here since the beta. I have a particular experience with both playing as an infiltrator as well as dealing with them. That's the thing with individual stories, they change depending who's perspective it is. I mean, just look at discussions when you introduce factions. It is extremely common to members of one faction to view players of their own faction more favourably than the opposing faction. The opposing faction on the other hand is cowardly and "ZERG ALL THE TIME", meanwhile, they're blind to their own actions and when they zerg it is just superior tactics. You can see this line of argument in the aspects of air versus ground, ESFs versus Libs, classes versus classes, infantry versus MAX units, etc.

    Like both me and Kane have demonstrated above we're not unshakable in our opinion or zealots. You just can't frame a discussion with the primary goal being the removal of a class and expect people to go "Oh, ok, let's do it." It will raise eyebrows and it will garner harsh reactions. Even slight nerf threads gets pretty strong reactions...

    HAs were already the meta and did not need to be even more effective + vehicles was in many cases farm mode 9000. Shotguns were so incredibly powerful on both HA/LA because they were able to use increased toughness and unrivalled gap closers (LAs are even better at it now) it turned into a s***show and it crucially, it was very clear in the performance data. As for the PS1 infiltrator, because PS1 is a very different game.

    Previously the meta has never really favoured the infiltrator but we can see an increase these days. We've also already discussed ways to rebalance the CQC BASRs in this very thread but you're going to have to accept we won't accept nerfing the class to the ground + removing a lot of its tools without a good cause (or buffing it in relevant areas). Anecdotes and "would someone please think of the children!"-arguments are not enough when asking for such fundamental changes.

    TL;DR: If you want people to emphasise with your situation you better emphasise with theirs and offer compelling and constructive suggestions in return. If you spice up your replies with divisive rhetoric, expect it in return. I don't know about you but if someone calls me "a selfish person intent on the ruining other people's fun" I'm not likely to agree...
    • Up x 2
  16. TRspy007



    The infiltrator is not fulfilling a role in the game. Logically, it should either be tweaked or removed. It's not the only thing that needs tweaking, but if like me you've been here since beta, you've hopefully noticed the class has been buffed to unprecedented levels and no longer correctly fulfills a role in the game.

    Correcting most weapons in general by reducing the effects of headshots would be a nice start, but the class definitely needs another look at if it's going to actually play a role in the combined arms game. Unfortunately , due to the dev's other priorities and the complicated nature of reworking the class, the most viable solution would simply be to scrap it. - I'm not the first who came up with that idea, but it ultimately just seems like the best solution given the current state of the game. It's pretty obvious there's an issue, most of the threads involving infils/air/tanks get 1k+ views.

    The heavy assault's job was to be a "heavy assault", much like the MAX. The MAX is pretty much nothing more than a meme, the heavy is no longer a threat against vehicles. Shotguns, however powerful they are are only effective a hair past melee range, and the pellet spread is random. Planetside 2 is meant to be Planetside 1 with update graphics. Sure, it's now a completely different game, but it was meant to continue the legacy, and just because something worked fine in PS1 doesn't mean it needs to be completely tweaked for PS2. Planetside Arena was a totally different game than the Planetside sequel, and we can see how much success it got thanks to that.


    I'm glad to hear you're emotionally attached to the class and "won't accept" changing it to provide more interesting gameplay. However the game needs players, so we'll use the input from people who play the game and the majority who have left to weight out the direction it should take.

    I can write as many constructive replies as I want, if the guys asking for them can't read or won't read them, it doesn't really do much for anyone. I've already addressed these points along with the same 3 points you guys constantly repeat, and others have tried explaining it as well.


    Please stop hiding behind 'the heavy and vehicles are unbalanced which therefore makes the infiltrator balanced'. It's about as cheesy as the class, and doesn't offer any "compelling and constructive suggestions in return" as you put it. My issue is that while we're trying to propose solutions to a problem, we're faced with people who won't even admit it exists.

    If someone calls me a "a selfish person intent on the ruining other people's fun", I'll pause ask myself "why the f*ck would he think that", take a second to reflect on my behavior, and think about the community as a whole. You don't think I love to C4 things? I still ***** every time I have the C4 delay kill me when I'm tryna C4 a scat-max, but I totally understand why they added it, and I'm not going to affirm there wasn't a problem with it. Hell, I still comment how absurdly powerful the light assault is against vehicles.

    All I've heard so far is there's no issues with the class because everyone plays heavy anyways and I know nothing about what I'm talking about despite being social in game and having played actively since second week beta. Also tried to quote some numbers to show that no one played the class, when in fact they demonstrated it's the second/first most played, which bizarrely coincides with in-game observations. The problem isn't simply the 1hk capability of the weapons, it's the fact they are allowed to equip primaries while cloaked, and also have access to the stalker cloak. There's not really room for invisibility in the game, much less with such killing potential.

    And it's not just with infils that this doesn't work, I've got a "friend" who has been running cloak ANT plus engineer with 4 C4s for 3 months on an alt. His KDR is 5+, and no, he doesn't get rezed after he plows into armor columns and deployed sunderers. Infil isn't the only thing in the game that needs tweaking, but it's definitely one of the things alongside air that has been avoiding a well deserved nerf for far too long.


    And also quit discarding new/returning players suggestions/critiques, the game would be in a far better state if it had listened to the majority of the community and satisfied their needs.
  17. pnkdth


    Just because I take into account what other infiltrators say does not mean I refuse to see the other side. So yeah, things have to get a lot worse before I consider the removal of the class as a serious argument. You do not make decisions based on hearsay without hearing the other party out.

    I would have thought it be noticeable by now though that I've tried to find the middle ground so I'll just leave past posts speak for themselves.
    • Up x 1
  18. TRspy007

    Other infils have already commented that the class was basically unfair. If you're going to consider the opinion of one illiterate dude just because it vaguely supports your "middle ground", I'd really hate to see what "a lot worse" looks like in your eyes.

    I don't mind looking at other's perspectives, but if they're gonna dehumanize themselves by just being blatantly arrogant, dumb and ignorant; whatever the manage to put together to "counter" points isn't worth much. The guy can't read a 2 sentence definition he looked up, much less research anything properly; if you're gonna use THAT as a source of support for your stance, it's about as weak and invaluable as his. Sorry, I don't mean to "insult you", but that's simply the truth.
  19. pnkdth


    You already know what that middle ground might look like, you called me reasonable. So this response actually is pretty damn funny.
    • Up x 2
  20. TRspy007


    By reasonable I meant you actually admitted the infil needed some tweaks, whereas the others are still stuck in Disneyland thinking everything is ok, they know everything, the game is making money, and escalation was a major success.

    I get removing the infil is drastic, but simply tweaking the CQC bolts are only addressing one part of the problem....although the devs love doing weak band-aid "fixes" so it's definitely a more realistic "solution" to expect from dbg.