so and what about the mechs/walkers?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Nakron, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Nakron

    its 2020 and nothing its taking to damn long so i decided to start this discussion about the mechs/walkers i see people around talking about existing vehicles or other stuff but they never talk about the mechs/walkers from ps1 back in the day it was a real thing and was very cool i never had a chance to play ps1 but i saw gameplays,videos etc.. and it is very cool indeed why until this year 2020 we never got a single mech? if is because ''balance'' problems i am sure it can be worked out its not impossible to make work well we already have a ''not-a-too-slow'' vehicle like the heavy tanks i think mechs/walkers in ps2 would not be a problem at all we can add mechs/walkers to the game for the sake of variety too would be a bit more like these mechs from bf2142,mechwarrior for example would be separated in types like assault mechs,light mechs,medium mechs and heavy walkers(the one who got more resources to build the one who have more fire power) these mechs can be spawned by everyone inside the battlefield its not outfit exclusive like the bastion the internet have a lot of awesome concept art that can inspire and help in the creative process i will post some pics i got around internet that will help understand what i am talking about and maybe help the devs have an ideia what to create so lets start :

    heavy walkers examples: very slow and a lot of fire power and armor have excellent anti-air weaponry and would be a wise ideia to be expensive and add a lot of resources and time to build it would be very difficult to take down this mech sure with wise tactics can be taken down quickly is very effective for defend and attack bases or any point of interest be prepared you will be getting a lot of attention so be cautious when piloting this beast.

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    light mechs examples : would be a cheap vehicle to spawn with not much resources a bit more than the heavy tanks,more weak and more fast with not much fire power dont have anti-air weapons(this does mean you need to have someone with anti-air weapon watching your back in this case the sky to not get wrecked by aircraft a squad of MAX units can give support for light mechs for example) can take down medium and light vehicles in the field without headaches but would be more hard to take down heavy vehicles for example would be a wise ideia not to put jetpacks behind light mechs this type of mech should not acess high terrain areas like mountains or get inside bases like people do with flash or harassers people would spam that and would be unbalanced we already have MAX units to do that job.
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    medium mechs examples: would me a bit more balanced in terms of weapon and armor could do more damage than the light mechs can take down aircraft and all types of vehicles but still have a bit of hard time to get down heavy vehicles the focus still to work in the land not in the air the air weapons give this type of mech more versatility in the field to at least have a chance to defend against reavers,mosquitos,scythes and valkyries the ammount of ammo in anti-air weapons would be limited for this mech for the sake of balance this mech would probably have hard time trying to take down a galaxy for example.

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    assault mechs examples : this type of mech is expensive to spawn in the battlefield and is slow and dont have much mobility in the field this one can take down all types of vehicles(air and land) without much difficulty have very strong armor and field weapons as well strong anti-air weapons can take down enemy formations and can take a lot of damage before going down(for my luck i found concept art from ps2 mechs but i still think the TR and VS assault mech version in this concept art doesnt fit assault category because of its armor design in my point of view i think it should fit the light or medium type i will put the images here to be more organized because of the image says assault mech)


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    some points i want to make:

    1- obs:dont get confused with light mechs and MAX units both are totally different(some people treats MAX like a assault mech)and have different roles inside the battlefield MAX is more like ''heavy-anti-personnel suit'' to have more high chance of sucess to capture the base and defend some point of interest inside the battlefield in my personal point of view i think MAX should not have anti-air weapons that should be the work of the mechs and tanks to take air-craft down.

    2-obs:all these mechs should be balanced to work well inside the game we do not want super op mechs taking base after base with only one guy in a mech.

    3-obs: the light mechs type should be wise to work with a squadron of mechs to be really effective in the field.

    4-obs: the mechs have their weaknesses like slow mobility in the field,expensive resourses to spawn,they are very easy targets for rocket launchers and so on so you should be really carefull.

    5-obs: if we will add mechs we need to add weapons anti-mechs for troopers and vehicles as well to be able to deal with mechs even on foot of course a soldier with a anti-mech weapons can take down mechs but will have a hard time trying to destroy medium,assault and heavy walkers even with a squad should not be easy only light mechs can be taken down ''easy'' by a squad.

    6-obs: you can defend and attack bases with light mechs but you need a squad of them to be able to be effective in your defense or attack,you need medium,assault or heavy walker to be able to defend or attack a base without much headaches.

    7-obs: just like the bastion the heavy walker should have weak points to shot at to make the walker live longer

    8-obs: the mechs should be created to work in a open terrain without huge obstacles and have a hard time trying to get up hills.

    9-obs: please make a cool cockpit for each type of mech more like in mechwarrior series so we actually have the feelling to be piloting/driving a mech/walker and put the danger/warning lights and sound inside the cockpit when we are about to blow up that would be very awesome.(and also put some lights in the mech for the night time)

    10-obs: mechs should also need to have heat weapons we already have that mechanic inside the game so if put that in mech/walker weapons that should work(i think mechs should have weapons with ammo that needs resupply too for the sake of variety).

    11-obs: make each type of mech for each faction distinct for each other(like the heavy tanks) please dont just recolor the mechs dont put the same mech design for all factions that is very dull for sure(we need to have the feeling to be playing with that empire so that helps a lot with this feeling).

    12-obs: these type of vehicles is perfect for defend a sunderer or to change the tide of the battle in your empire favor that moment for example when even a lot of enginners cant sustain a MAX unit in a offense or defensive move the mechs can replace the MAX in these situations i am not saying that the MAX will be useless or that the MAX needs to be replaced with mechs they still have his roles inside the field.


    thats it i folks any more suggestions for these mechs/walkers are welcome i hope rogue planet games can make mechs/walkers a reality in ps2 i know maybe will not be an easy task to be done right now but the suggestion and the ideia is here i do hope we can see that soon make planet side great again!
    • Up x 1
  2. Liewec123

    i'd consider them overpowered fun enders.
    but we have bastions and people are celebrating.
    so maybe people would love em!
    • Up x 2
  3. Scrundle

    There's always going to be a knee-jerk response to anything that even passingly resembles BFRs (Yes yes, I know, they didn't single-handedly kill the game, they sure helped nail the lid down though) and I can totally understand it as I was there for it all.
    However, as Liewec123 has already said above, maybe the playerbase just isn't against "overpowered fun enders" anymore, so maybe the time is ripe for these walking coffin nails.

    My only request though if this sort of thing was introduced, please PLEASE focus on the weakspot mechanic. Don't for god's sake bring in something that people can't fight because they aren't the right class or aren't in an ESF. Even if their healthpool is immune to small arms, borrow the mechanic from planetside and let them have modules which can be disabled by small arms fire instead. Just so that everyone has something they can actually do to it, rather than just watch it fly overhead having fun, infringing on your gameplay but at the same time being completely immune to yours, wait..sorry I was talking about the bastion there for a moment wasn't I?

    I appreciate the effort and thought that you put into your post there and everyone would love new vehicles of any sort to be introduced i'm sure. It's just that people fear mechs as heralds of the end times.
    • Up x 1
  4. nadir

    So the PS1 mechs, better known as BFR's, were a sad addition to the game. They caused a big performance hit in the game due to being the only things in the game that had hit boxes. I believe the Chinese version, removed them eventually because of it. I didn't like them, but they ended up not being a huge issue as people would drop on them and use decimators to take them down by the weak point, a generator on the back side of the vehicle and then it would go down fairly quickly. I liked to hit them with a radiator when they were door camping and watching pilot and gunners die to the radiation. They were powerful, but folks came up with strategies to take them down pretty fast. It was, IMHO, the worst thing added to the game.
    • Up x 1
  5. Scrundle


    The problem, in my eyes, was very specifically the flight variants. The tank variants weren't nearly as big a problem because there were ways to deal with them as you said.
  6. Sprant Flere-Imsaho

    Bastions are the BFR's of PS2. Bigger is not always funner, especially for the low-spec folk.
  7. Money

    you must really hate this game if you want a more overpowered single player skill suit
    • Up x 2
  8. Pikachu

    People love suggesting more powerful things to games. Some people even suggest naval warfare with battleships.
  9. Gooyoung

    Man dont yall get bored of shooting only 5 type of land vehicle every single time

    Even if not BFR, a new land vehicle sure sounds really fun
    • Up x 1
  10. optimus

    The game needs more vehicles. I'd love it if they brought back BFR's. They'd just need to have allot of stuff attached to balance them.
    For starters don't make them the un-killable machines they were in PS1. Look to Battlefield 2142 as an example, they had for the most part fairly well balanced mech suits. Break down allot of the old abilities into separate modules that are equipped in the armor slot so people have to pick and choose, you cant have it all. The power comparison of 1 BFR to a MBT should be equivalent to comparing a MBT to a Lightning Tank. 2 MBT's working together should be able to down a BFR but a solo BFR should always beat out a solo MBT of equal skill. BFR's should cost more resources than a MBT, say maybe 650 or 700 and only be spawned from the warpgate. They could even restrict them to a couple of maps for starters like Esamir and Ameresh. That way there would still be maps you could play on without them if you really hate them that much.
    If and thats a big "IF" they have a flight variant it needs to function similar to a light assault and be very very limited. That module should take up the armor module slot so they have to give up allot of survive-ability for all that mobility.
    I would not give them the absurd shield they used to have unless its a defense module that forces them to give something else up and is greatly nerfed from the ps1 version.
    I honestly just want more vehicles in this game, The game needs more variety in that department. since launch we have gotten 3 vehicles.... thats it (not counting the NSOPS hover scooter as not everyone has access to that). Empire specific ones would be preferable but I understand that resources are limited and balancing 3 different versions of the same thing might be a nightmare they don't have time for. But please.... give us something. A large portion of the games player base is here for the combined arms and vehicle play. Throw us a bone.
  11. Novidian

    Metal... gear???
  12. Demigan

    Adding new Mechs isn't the problem, the purpose and gameplay of these mechs is a problem.

    First of all, many bases have vehicle gates. If your Mech is larger than the vehicle gate then you can't spawn it there and get out of the base. There's also the maximum size of the vehicle pad and for example the vehicle bays in Tower bases to consider. Even if you use PMB's to build these mechs they would be severely limited in where you can use them and where not.

    Second is purpose. If your Mech serves the same role as a tank there's little added to the game. Your Mech needs to add something, a unique gameplay in how to fight with them or against them that doesn't make people say "it's just an MBT with legs, it'll be camping outside my spawn anyway so what's the difference?".

    There's also the problem of extreme balancing, the MAX being a good example. The MAX is heavily resistant to small-arms fire and reviveable. To compensate for this the MAX got it's speed nerfed and it's dual weapons heavily modified to not exceed a certain DPS while also adding weaknesses to for example C4. This makes the MAX either an extremely tough target or an extremely weak one depending on how it's being attacked simply because it has one extreme element (toughness) that needs to be balanced out with another extreme (very slow makes it hard to use in many area's and easily blown to pieces). This makes it hard to balance the Mech's as well if you give them too much firepower, make them too slow, give them too much armor etc.

    An example how to do it right:
    Add a Heavy MAX suit. Where the current MAX is more infantry than vehicle the H-MAX would be more vehicle than infantry. It retains it's infantry control but needs time to speed up and slow down. It's weapons need a unique purpose compared to the existing vehicles. For example we give these H-MAX's access to aircraft nosecannons to wield. This gives it a unique anti-infantry and anti-aircraft role compared to most other vehicles. The H-MAX would be vulnerable to small-arms like a Harasser but be very weak to AV damage from infantry weapons, giving infantry a chance to defeat a nosegun-wielding H-MAX and also giving the H-MAX a better defined role when it comes to engaging or not engaging tanks.
    • Up x 2
  13. OutlawSZ

    I do miss the BFR's from Planetside 1. They were fun to play and also fun to kill. People whined a ton when they first came out until they realized how easy it was to kill them.
  14. DemonicTreerat

    Easy enough.

    Make the bipedal walker (which I will just call a walker from here on out) slower than a lightning and a bit (say 10 to 20%) less durable but with the usual immunity to small arms. Instead of a being a single "piece" however they have a lower torso (which includes the legs) which corresponds to the hull of tanks and an upper torso comparable to the PS1 lightnings turret with a 135 degree traverse to either side plus the "arms" that could beng another say 15 degrees. For passive ability I would say jump jets - either Ambusher or Icarus with less distance and longer recharge times. Utility & defensive options would be the standard tank set while chassis would be a "rival" that increases turn speed or a "racer" that adds the option for an "autorun" at higher speed. Crew would be 2 (pilot & gunner) with each having access to a different suite of weapons. The pilot's weapon options would be comparable to MAX weaponry with comparable controls for firing (left mouse left side gun, right mouse right side gun, etc). The gunner has one "main" weapon such as a cannon from a Lightning or MBT top gun plus a "secondary" weapon such as ESF rockets, Hornets, or Coyotes.

    The net result; something more mobile on rough ground than existing vehicles that can be outfitted with a range of weapons for either highly specialized roles or a diverse role. Its tradeoffs being that is slower than other ground units on flat terrain and its weapons lack the same per-punch hit of heavy hitters like the MBTs & Liberators. So like the original BFRs its great at supporting infantry but without infantry support its very vulnerable if enemy infantry get in close.

    And no offense but your "H-MAX" idea wouldn't work. That type of gun would be too weak against its intended target, which you've implied would be vehicles. They work for aircraft because aircraft can stay out of the view & at range from their target, are hard to hit, and can always bug out. The "H-MAX" has none of those advantages so its going to lose badly against its stated target while having no real chance against infantry. For something like that to be worth dropping nanites & certs the firepower would have to be scaled up so much that it would completely outclass any tank in terms of firepower, at which point why pull a tank at all? If anything a better concept on that scale would be reduce the cost of existing MAXes, remove kinetic armor, and increase its speed. Then create a much beefier version with more firepower but less agility.
  15. Demigan

    I opened this thread and these happened to be the first words I read, based on these words:

    Where exactly do I imply it's focus would be vehicles?

    unupgraded Hornets deal 1000 damage per salvo at 250 DPS.
    unupgraded Lightning AP deals 700 damage per shot at 233 DPS.
    Combined Hornets+Lightning AP deals 1700 damage per salvo at 483 DPS.

    Fully upgraded Prowler AP with Barrage on deals 1200 damage per salvo at 400 DPS.

    And we haven't even looked at MAX-like AV weapons for the driver. This vehicle is supposed to "lack the same per-punch hit of heavy hitters like MBT's"? What's the medium Mech going to be firing? A medium-damage tactical nuke? This is exactly the kind of extreme balancing I was talking about before!

    Aside from the weapon sets this walker you propose could work. I don't see much added benefit of making the light version a 2-man vehicle though. And if you sacrifice it's speed it needs to have maneuverability in return

    You really think that noseguns on a maneuverable light vehicle would be bad against infantry? Or that the "gotcha" factor of finally being able to sneak up on farming ESF and blow them to pieces with a good barrage is going to be weak?
  16. Johannes Kaiser

    While I'd appreciate a vehicle designed for rougher terrain, there are a few considerations I'd like to share:
    1) There already is one, it's called Magrider, and most people who don't play VS aren't in the cheering crowd when one comes along.
    2) This type of vehicles would primarily be used to outflank opponents. That's the job of everyone's favourite MMARTT (most maneuverable and ridiculously tough tank). It is, likewise, somewhat suited for rough terrain. Not built for it (certainly not when interacting with the horrible vehicle physics of this game), but it certainly can climb up to unexpected places if the driver is so inclined.
    3) What would it be countered by? If we assume the role to be ambushers fighting out of the mountains, the logical answer would be: other walkers and bloody air. And nothing should have only itself and air as primary counters (effectively meaning "only itself", since air is like the gun in "rock, paper, scissors" and counters everything by definition). LAs might get there, depending on everbody's state of jetpack, but if fielded in small squads, good luck getting LAs to do anything effective against them. LAs are only useful if their targets are either unaware or not mobile enough as well as in somewhat approachable locations. These walkers sound like they are designed to be neither of those.

    So as much as I appreciate the designs, there are some things that just don't check out.
  17. WCRjv27NC

    First off. Thanks for taking the time to put that together. I think its a great idea to put something in the game like that. As long as it is not too powerful, im all down for a mech/walker. I think it would be awesome. I always thought the old NC Max ability running animation was hilarious and would love to see a walking animation in the game.
  18. JibbaJabba

    They ruined planetside 1.

    "Hey let's drop a walking death machine into a primarily infantry based game" - utterly wrecked balance. They then reacted by making them super hard to get. So those without got rekt and could never respond in kind. So they quit.

    Much later they got them reasonably balanced but the game never recovered from the massive population loss.

    Think about HESH farmers today. Those are the people that would primarily play such things.
  19. Demigan

    Perhaps I can give a different insight:

    1: The Magrider is an MBT with rough terrain capabilities and high maneuverability, and you say that these Mechs with high mobility in rough terrain would step on the Magrider role. But if we added a Mech with high healthpool and resistances would it immediately step on the Vanguard role? There is space there for differentiation. For example the Mechs could have a different way of traversing rough terrain or the definition of "rough terrain" could also change to "urban terrain" where Mechs could have a big role to play fighting inside bases.

    2: The Harasser is an in-your-face vehicle that centers around driving around the target in open spaces while avoiding damage with it's small frame and speed and dealing a lot of damage in return. When the Harasser crosses rough terrain it's to avoid damage or to get at their opponent from a less expected angle, it's not the place they choose to attack from.
    These Mechs wouldn't be able to do that. They would likely be able to cross rough terrain but not break from that terrain for a full face-to-face combat (at least not the way I would design them). They would either be doing stand-off attacks from the rough terrain so they can slip away when things get dangerous or they would try to ambush an enemy that is already close to the rough terrain, deal some damage and try to get back into the rough terrain to lose them. Without the boost, the high speed and small frame of the Harasser these Mechs would never be able to function like a Harasser.
    I think Mechs should function a lot like infantry in that regard. You can cross a lot of terrain, get in and out of most bases, attacks are mostly short magazine unloads and succeed from repetition rather than one hard slugfest.

    3: It would be countered by firepower. Without the ludicrous speed and small frame it's not going to be dodging a lot of shots and if we design it so that it doesn't function like a full tank it can't win a slugmatch. So vehicles would need to catch it out in the open, overpower it's defenses before the Mech has time to get back into cover or have enough ability to follow the Mech and get a last shot in after it retreats.
    Depending on the loadout it could also be countered by infantry. A tank might not be aiming for the relatively small legs of a Mech but infantry might be allowed to. It could deal a small amount of damage and perhaps reduce the Mech's speed, while the Mech would also still not have the full protection that full tanks benefit from. That means that infantry, tanks, aircraft and other Mechs would all be able to counter Mechs.
  20. Johannes Kaiser

    Points 1 and 2 were mostly designed to show that this would step into two areas a lot of players aren't comfortable with: Mobile units with too much tankiness that can ge everywhere and would in other places be defined as sand (intentional reference, not nonsense, trust me). Aside from those utilising them, of course. Now, I agree, if the mechs were designed better than the MMARTT (and since they would be available to all factions instead of one) those problems might not be as pronounced, if noticable at all. But that would reqwuire a lot of finetuning.