Close Quarter Snipers out of control

Do you have the numbers on that?

Looking at the currently activity on Miller you don't even see a CQC sniper rifle in the top 20 and on Cobalt it is on was on 17th. HA is doing good, as expected, as is the LA. I mean, given this thread I expected infiltrators you utterly dominate the top spots and put other classes to shame...

So objectively speaking, no, infiltrators are not out of control. Unless the claim is that the infiltrator should under-perform in relation to other classes?

How do you suggest they change the game to get my KDR up as medic?

Ok I see that this topic is kinda emotional for you... but could we agree on not using strawmen here?

I think since the last patch (no Point-capture-contribution while cloaked) Infils are at a fine place, since the "Im staying cloaked on point 24/7" - Stalker has been taken care of... I never mentioned in any way whatsoever, that Infil needs a buff... So stay on topic pls...

Srsly... "LA and Engi main"... I think you're playing a lot of heavy and you're trying to act like "being an all objective bystander"... but ok... lets keep the discussion going shall we?

"They can pull a flash and one-clip a MBT"...
If we are start talking about vehicles: every class can spawn vehicles to take care of an MBT... and I don't know what magical version of the fury you equipped on your flash that kills MBTs so fast that they can't react...

If they are totally oblivious and let you empty your whole fury magazin on them they might take a good bunch of damage... but they are not downed unless significantly damaged beforehand... and one little tickle with their main canon and thats it for the flash...
Is it good? Well, it certainly has it's moments... but calling it OP and calling for the nerf/ban-hammer is simply a l2p issue...

Cloaked flashes are good at taking out already severely damaged lone vehicles they catch off guard... but guess what... almost any vehicle with stealth is able to sneak up on a unsuspecting damaged MBT and finish it off, if driver and gunner are not paying attention. No cloak needed for that.

HAs and LAs can take on MBTs without the need to spawn a vehicle... they can do that without the need of going out of their way like spawning a vehicle or change loadout.

Infiltrators serve the purpose to corrupt stalemate frontlines... that's what they are for...
It's ok if you dislike the stealthy "not-so-upfront" playstyle... but you're not bringing up anything productive here, you're simply one of these "Mimimi I got killed... ban it!!!"-guys who got frustrated cause they can't figure out how to deal with a certain type of enemy and refuse to wrap their heads around it.

And all you come up with is "but but but... muh KD!"...

PS 2 isn't about KD... it's about PTFO... And PTFO with Infiltrator is as hard as with any other class...

Your amusingly inaccurate number aside, how frequently it occurs was literally never the point. You quite specifically said this:

and this:

Both of which were simply wrong. Which I pointed out:

And linked a gif of exactly this happening

That's it. That was the end of it.

You then proceed to flip out, call me a liar, strawman me, then double down on your claims and invent new fictitious mechanics to try and explain things that disagree with your argument because for whatever reason being wrong on the internet to you is an anathema.

That's why we're here right now, in fact.

The ability to kill with a headshot at 10m means nothing if that's not where I pulled the trigger from you brainlet.

A Heavy with AS/NMG can survive a hit (from the Bighorn) at less than 100m, and with RS can survive at less than 50m (without Aux Shield). This does not mean (nor did I say) it happens every time, merely that is not impossible or improbable for a Heavy to survive an otherwise fatal shot with a sniper.

Unfortunately to get to these numbers you need to be able to actually do simple math, not quote numbers off a bloody wikipedia page.

Completely immaterial. What happens after they tank the shot was never the point.

I never said they were a problem you ignorant ****. In fact I have yet too make a single statement about balance in this thread. Almost the entirety of my time here has been spent addressing your ignorant claims about a subject you are ill-equipped to discuss.

You labor under the delusion that the ability to doing something makes your every word on the subject unquestionable gospel. There are plenty of people who are skilled at the game whose opinions on its balance are worthless, just as there are others who do have a good grasp of the fundamentals even if they are bad at executing them.

While personally I have assumptions about your ability as a player, even if they are wrong it doesn't make your incompetent flailing any less worthy of ridicule.

No, which is why I put 'block' in quotes and then mentioned extra shielding. Because you don't believe that a heavy can survive a HS from a sniper, which it can under certain circumstances... especially against a daimyo.

I assume the rest is for the other person.

My face still hurts after that THICC facepalm. Jesus boy, stop showing us your complete incompetence and try, for example, read wiki. I don't know. Why people dare to complain or proving their point of view while they not even aware about basic machanics.

This "specially against a daimyo" tells everything about you. Your words worth nothing. You pathetic.

You want the infiltrator nerfed because your obsession with KDR? While admitting the class is not as effective as other classes in SPM/KPM/Kills (you know, the stats which actually changes the battlefield). I'm asking you again to adress and substantiate your claims. Lame insults is not going to phase me. I'll just repeat the question till you provide an answer or admit you're exaggerating the situation.

Are you suggesting a shielded heavy cannot survive a headshot from the Daimyo?

?????

Why don't you read the wiki. It is one of the lowest dmg snipers, even with the 5x hs multiplier. 1125 MAX dmg, a shielded heavy will almost always block a HS.

I’m an engineer, I’ve pretty much done the math and applied it to the game, you’re the one quoting numbers you don’t know how to use and assuming the perfect universe to support your fairly weak argument.

Alright dude, your point is that snipers are balanced because for less than half a second after a full health heavy turns on their shield, they can resist a sniper shot to the head. Yeah, as I said, the shield does nothing for headshots, it simply adds 407hp to the player, which decays at 18hp a second, which would make the heavy survive a headshot (from the weaker sniper rifles) for about 0.3889 seconds. Wow, that really does put the infiltrator in a tough spot, and worth quoting as your lead argument in every one of your replies “tHe HeAvY cAn SuRvIvE a HeAdShOt”. Which in fact, they wouldn’t even be able to if you picked the 750 damage model sniper. Also you’re relying on something HIGHLY IMPROBABLE to support your main argument that Planetside 2 gameplay is simply irrelevant when we can just blankly regurgitate facts that justify an unbalanced class.


Oh wait, I also forgot that second key point of yours. Snipers are balanced, because if you land a headshot from across the map, sometimes the dude doesn’t die. Well, front hose ranges, you should be expecting that, or have a target focus implant to just pick out the damaged targets. Or simply do a follow up, like basically any other infil would do. Not sure why you not being able to score hs kills past extreme ranges is such a huge problem, or justifies that snipers being almost always a 1hk is balanced. At those ranges, only other snipers can fire back at you and hope to damage something.


Back in beta, I did agree that balancing was not an issue and often did more harm then good to the game. New weapons always seemed « OP » because everyone was trying them out, so people were dying more often to them, and since most releases were faction specific back then, each would complain the other got the best new toy, when in fact everything just balanced itself pretty nicely once people adapted to it. However, many in the community complained balance was a problem, and the rare occasions the devs listened to the community (as you mention, most of the better/smarter players realized balanced was not an issue, and didn’t voice their opinion back then, which was a mistake). This brought the constant changes to the ZOE, the Vulcan, and eventually the combined arms failure, which basically turned every vehicle into LA food, the decimator as the only viable option for the heavy and made air simply dominate everything in the game.


The main problem about balance though had to do with infiltrators, or actually the headshot mechanic they benefited from. Back then, Nanoweave armour was the best cert you could spend. The reason it was so good and everyone chose it above other armour was because it actually gave the player more health. That meant they were automatically granted added survivability to fall damage, explosives and...could survive a headshot from a sniper. If you recall, there were far less snipers back then, because it actually took quite some skill to kill people back then. But the incessant whining of the infil community brought a change: nanoweave now only grants damage resistance. Oh wait, this still does not make snipers a 1hk to the head. The solution: this only applies to the body. Now I fils are happy, they can quickly pick off dudes at terminals or afks without using 2 shots on each guy.


And yeah, sometime after that, they nerfed heavy shields due to similar complaints that they made the class too strong, and added stalker cloaking somewhere in between.


My point is, you guys only ask about “balance” when it benefits you. I play all classes, the infiltrator the least since it is very boring, feels like I’m cheating and overall is just a very annoying class to be for me. I don’t like the mentality it promotes, since these players do not help their team, their mission is supposed to be recon, but, it’s used more as a line wolf class for people who want to show off their 5kdr. Very toxic if you ask me. If you thought the game was balanced, you wouldn’t have let the devs make the infiltrator, light assault and air vehicles so powerful. The gameplay during the first 2 years would have been satisfying and fair. However, you impose changes that overly benefit a class in particular for the sake of “balance” then complain when people address these issues, saying the game doesn’t need “balance”. You are the one that changed it in the first place!


Also as I said previously, snipers were available to every class in Planetside 1, and you could only equip a pistol and knife when cloaked (which you could not do indefinitely). I never heard many people complain about infils back then.

Buddy, the daimyo is not a normal sniper. Would you like to know why? It’s a SEMI-AUTO hybrid.Literally says it in the description.

“Daimyo's three-round magazine contains the headshot killing potential of a bolt-action sniper rifle, with the follow-up potential usually found in semi-automatic snipers” (https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/NSX_Daimyo)

Even then, it dishes out 1125 damage, which is enough to kill anything else asides a MAX. And you can spam the trigger so...it trades a bit of FPS for rate of fire.

Also, I would like to know how all of you keep engaging max health shield heavies. When you’re sniping, the dude doesn’t even have time to realize what is going on before he’s instagibbed. Unless you guys are being really nice and waiting for him to turn on his shield just before you shoot him, your claims are entirely theoretical, and it is a blatant delusion to assert these are concrete reasons to support your clause.

Seriously, why does your main argument rely on the assumption that you are constantly engaging a heavy at full health who just happened to turn on his shield as soon as you fired. We must not be living in the same reality, or it’s time for you guys to check your ping/lay issues. Really, I appreciate the creativity, but I don’t have to play the game to know that is not a plausible scenario.

Oh yeah, btw, you guys do have access to emp bases that instantly take out 500 health or more if the guy is running bionics. Throw that at the heavy and you’ll get him with your daimyo if you seriously can’t get him before he turns on his shield, or don’t want to send a second shot at him.

Dude?? The insults are just a frustrated attempt to get you to wake up and activate that grey matter; I know you have it, just put it to use.


My obsession with KDR??? What are you reading? You seem to indirectly come to the same conclusion, yet stray around it sprouting nonsensical rhetorics instead. You already said it in your own words, so I’ll just connect the dots with you.


1) Most people play infiltrator in order to boost their KDR

2) Infiltrators usually have quite low SPM/KPM and I quite “you know, the stats which actually changes the battlefield”

3) From these two statements, we can conclude that the infiltrator does not “change”/contribute to the battlefield


Conclusion: the infiltrator is a class that goes against the combined arms nature of the game. It serves no purpose in the team/combined arms aspect of the game, therefore it should be changed/removed.


I don’t want infiltrators “nerfed”, I simply want them brought back to what they were, if not removed entirely. Remove stalker cloaking which simply encourages trolling and poor skill toxic/cancerous gameplay, give snipers to support classes such as the engineer and medic, infils can equip snipers but can not cloak with them. They can only equip pistols and knives when cloaked. This would get us closer to the Planetside 1 gameplay, and require players to at least develop skill to use the class, and maybe participate more in battles, instead of ghost capping points or being invisible snipers hundreds of meters away from the fight.

Of course infiltrators will disagree, but please don’t mention they are the worst class due to their 100 less health and lack of ability to kill a full health shielded heavy for 0.38888888888888 seconds after he turns on his shield (which isn’t even true if you use the 750 damage model snipers).

Literally didn't read any of this past the first sentence, I don't care for your arguments, I just stated some facts. The **** I was replying to was wrong. You were wrong about heavies not surviving headshots. That's it, that's all. I haven't made a single argument about how balanced Infil or bolting is in this thread. Stop wasting your time.

What a coincidence. This still doesn't make you a special snowflake. I can only hope you are still in school, since you are apparently stupefied by the application of basic algebra.

You are not only a terrible engineer, but your reading comprehension is abominable. I will not repeat myself again, so read carefully:
I. Never. Commented. On. Class. Balance.

Get that through your thick skull, your sophistry is getting annoying.

Pick one.

In TRspy's world every firefight happens in maximum damage range and ends in less a half a second because every infiltrator player is a human aimbot. By all means, please continue to cherry pick numbers and scenarios to suit your argument.

Dear Lord, do you have a single argument that does not revolve entirely around a strawman? It doesn't look like you do.

I'm sorry, but old nanoweave armor was broken on a stick, and not just for infiltrators. Pre-nerf heavy assault had something around 2500 hitpoints when fully upgraded and shielded. The fact that you are un-ironically pining after this really tells me everything I need to know about your grip on balance. And reality.

The rest I really don't need to bother responding to, it's just more strawman.

Lol, basically just brush off reality by calling logic a "strawman" argument. What are you, a politician?

If your defense every time I point out the uselessness and blatant stupidity of your argument (which shouldn't really be that hard to comprehend dude, the fact you can only circle back to "but a heavy who just turned on his shield might survive and it's not a 1hk when I'm out of range" should highlight your complete ignorance of realistic scenarios in the game. It also does nothing but validate the fact that snipers are [almost] always a 1hk to the head, except in the most unlikeliest scenario pulled to the extreme.



You're really just repeating nonsense, then defend yourself by saying "I commented on this post about class balance without commenting about class balance". Well then little man, you got the wrong thread. If you're not gonna contribute anything about class balance, and simply repeat "bUt [some] SnIpeRs CaN't 1hK a FuLly ShIeldEd heAvy oUtSiDe oF 300 mEtErs" for no apparent reason (as you just mentioned yourself), then simply don't comment in the first place.


God dude, did you drop out of high school? I might not be the best engineer, but it doesn't take that too realize you're

a: mentally challenged

or

b: a 10 year year old who is amused by trolling other with worthless comments.


Also, since you appear to think you are radically more intelligent in the branch of mathematics, and for some reason disagree with the way I have worked the numbers according to game statistics and hypothetical scenarios, please, enlighten us. Don't simply say "your numbers are wrong" show me why they are, and what your numbers are so my puny brain can try to understand. I know I am a little slow, after all, I was using basic arithmetic to calculate my values, while you went on some tangent using algebra. I would love to see why/how algebra helped you get your numbers which you are keeping secret from us.

For what purpose? I'm not sure, since you clearly said you aren't commenting about class balance in the first place, so why are you even commenting in general?

.................


Man it seems the devs have sent me 3 ***** to troll me lmao. I can tell you guys don't (or can't) read anything, much less try to process it with whatever serves you as a brain. So typical of little kids "my argument is everything, and I won't even bother listening to a realistic point of view".


Alright dude, you can be proud of your valuable input. The daimyo, which is not a bolt action, can not always kill a shielded heavy. Congrats, what valuable input you have added to the conversation.

I think the only reason I am wasting my time is trying to talk some sense into you people. No matter how much we try to simply something, it just doesn't click. "oH bUt ThAt's aN eXaGeRaTi0n". When we give you the stats, suddenly you don't want to read anything, but we MUST take your argument for granted, because your word is law.

Ok buddy, you win. We were talking about bolting I guess, but no, the daimyo can not kill a full health heavy that just turned on his shield with a hs until about 15.67 seconds have elapsed. Very good point. Not sure what this has to do with anything, but you are right a full health heavy who just turns on his shield as he sees your daimyo shot heading towards him will survive even if you hit him in the head. Oh, and only the 750 damage model snipers can 1hk a heavy to the head in this same situation. The 700 model will have to wait 0.389 seconds and the 600 damage ones will wait 11.5 seconds, 5.94 for the 650 damage model ones.

So yes, you guys are absolutely right, there are a few snipers that will not instagib a full health heavy with a headshot that automatically turns on his shield when you fire your shot. Thank you for this valuable input. Where do we go from there? I'm not sure since none of you want to comment about balance or the topic of the thread in general, yet feel somewhat obliged to correct us with minute details of little relevance to actual gameplay.




"I haven't made a single argument about how balanced Infil or bolting is in this thread. Stop wasting your time." WHY ARE YOU COMMENTING ON THIS THREAD ABOUT BALANCE AND BOLTING THEN?!!?!!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!

Lel. Are you still talking to yourself with those essays of yours you bigoted ******? Funny how as always, your issue is anyone who doesn't share your misguided opinion. Assuming a lack of cheats, the muscle memory required and the dwindling player base; your nerfs as usual do nothing to add to anything. It's just your usual hot air. Nobody new is going to have the manhours/patience to catch up to the likes of Mustarde et al anymore. The golden age of ps2 is long gone and as things are always wonky with performance these days to boot, people like you never stop with the cry baby do you. Its more damn 'wah wah' than my guitar rig has going. Just can your BS. Snipers are fine, assuming the hurr durr lack of aimbot aid. If you can't handle something don't play. A preferable go to; than listening to more of your orchestral level ****** broadcasting.

Because you said something incorrect, that's it; I wasn't malicious or degrading, you were simply wrong and I just provided the correction. You've blown this so far out of proportion it's honestly amazing. I mean, look at this entire post that i'm, once again, not even going to bother to read past the first sentence and a bit.

What's even funnier, is that I truthfully think infiltrator is a cancer to this game - everything about the kit is either incredibly powerful or completely broken in my opinion. If it were up to me, i'd delete the entire class, delete all sniper rifles, give engineers hacking, and just make scout rifles global (minus LA). I simply don't have the energy to continually rehash the same arguments over and over when i'm 99.9% sure it isn't going to change anything, even someone else's opinion.

But Jesus Christ dude, really?

I said a generalization. Most people sniper before the heavy turns on the shield or equip a 750 damage model so they don't even have to worry about it. There was really no need to comment about it just to say "I corrected you hahahaha, but I'm not gonna add anything valuable to the conversation". Really dude, this is all a generalization, and there was no need to bring highly (and improbable) theoretical scenarios, especially for such a minor statement that overall wasn't even the substantial part of my argument.


"not even going to bother to read past the first sentence and a bit". Once again, the "I'm ignorant, and I'm proud of it" statement. Really dude, had you not pointed out something so irrelevant in the first place, I would not have had to justify what I said, nor demand why you were steering the discussion away from my conclusion.


Also, had you read my post, you'd see I've come to the same conclusion as you, and you could have simply said "I agree, but I'd like to point out that some snipers aren't always a 1hk". Really dude, that's all you had to say to prevent everyone from going on such an irrelevant tangent, when we had the same views in the first place.

Legit dude, I've been playing the game since it first released, and I'm pretty much up to date with everything. If I make a generalization like this, it is because those other scenarios prevent an infinitely disproportionate amount of scenarios, and can ultimately be regarded as irrelevant. I'll also admit I didn't not count the daimyo as a bolt action sniper rifle.

Arguing against things I never said -> Strawman. Don't like the term? Don't perform the act.

Bud the fact that you are still on this means you still have no idea why we are having this discussion. This is also exactly straw-manning, since you are continuing to argue against things I never said.

Is English your first language? Honest question, because at this point it honestly has to be a reading comprehension issue.

Correcting a false statement = commenting on class balance. Wow. Is your psyche really so fragile that you need to go through convoluted mental gymnastics every time you're wrong about something? How sad for you.

And for the record, I have commented on class balance elsewhere in this thread, you are just hell-bent on taking a specific statement I made out of context and attempting to use it to attack my entire position. AKA Straw-manning.

Bud, you are projecting so hard it's not even funny. Seek help, dude. You've clearly got more going on than a bruised ego.

Because sweet prince, you are calculating everything using maximum damage numbers and pretending that those numbers are true everywhere. To take damage falloff into account you must be able to do basic algebra, which allows you to find out what the damage is at any given distance when you know the minimum and maximum damage values and their ranges. I really hope I don't need to tell you how to do this.

When you do the math you will realize that your dismissive "lol 1% scenario", "lol only protects for half a second" statements are utter bollocks and that the HA shield is far more useful in far more scenarios than you give it credit for.

You won't admit it of course, but you will know, and you will know that I know that you know, which is all that matters.

Because dismantling someone's Wall of Ignorance brings a glimmer of warmth to my cold dead heart, and yours is exceptionally brittle.