2/2/2017 Update was a horrible move

You don't prove a point by throwing a fit, if anything people will be less likely to talk to you because you're just incredibly toxic.

Rooklie seems to be joining our lineup of village idiots with speed. I wonder if he'll stop in time before he's right up there with our worst of the worst.

Really though Nanoweave armor took a huge hit against protection. It was once heavy assault and medics that led the charge.

I watched tonight on a squad versus squad fight, more than half the squad was taken own, actually 8 of them died from 1-2 snipers crossing to a capture point, myself and one other team mate made it. Ready for the punchline? The ones that got wiped out were heavy assaults and medics, I was a engineer and my other buddy a cloaked. The fight was within the realm of 50-75 meters, what is the point of a LMG if they can’t even lay down any suppressing fire or have a layer or protection to fight back? If you look at how much the weapons values were changed in that update, they took a beating. Snipers thought twice before taking such shots before because the HA’s or Medics were able to rain down bullets at decent ranges with good damage values before they took a hammer both offensively and defensively. They no longer have their Ooomph.

It’s very clear that snipers are controlling the lanes in fights.

Nicely done by those infiltrators. 1-2 snipers versus 8 HAs + medics would have to be murderously effective. Between re-fires rates and reloads we're talking 100% accuracy with 100% HSR (and it is unlikely even this would be enough). All this on a unit of around 10-12 players who have support from medics so would be healed/shielded and/or revived. What's more is these infiltrators would have be to visible the whole time within an area of 50-75 meters versus LMGs and ARs well within their effective range. Between all those players all that would have been required would be less 0.1s of hits each and you'd still achieve overkill damage. Indeed, even a bit of damage would have been enough to suppress each sniper (the best way to get a sniper to duck out it to lay down some wounding shots).

Furthermore, what the heck were your cloaked friend doing this whole time? No darts or recon device? I mean, that would have revealed their position. If not a sniper himself, he should have little issues closing the gap and unleashing his SMG or scout rifle.

In other words, I think you're misremembering what happened and are embellishing certain facts as a result.

Considering bolt-action time and the range being fought in, you could have closed the distance a lot.

Also at those ranges you can still fire potshots at Infils. In fact you are fighting at a mere 5 to 7 Sunderer lengths. Maybe a clearer picture: you are fighting a distance from an AMP station spawn to the nearest vehicle shield shed at maximum. Those are distances where I can use a CQC Carbine to damage opponents to put pressure on them while I try to get to cover. Fighting at those distances with non sniperweapons is a regular occurence in the game. More average than a rare situation even.

One of my favourite things, in "forum pvp", is the same as in game, when you kill someone, then v6, then teabag, and they get mad, and they get super mad, so they send you /tells and they tryhard to get back at you, it's what makes pvp fun

And then for the next days, weeks, whenever they see you, and whenever they can, they insult you, they complain about you, and they stalk you.


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that said, this is the argument you and your bunch of fellow geniuses is using :



" if an infiltrator uses motion spotter or detection device, it is not over powered because it alerts the enemy to his presence in the area".


to which I reply :

"well, if you fight the enemy more than once, you know that he"s in the area".


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(unless you're arguing that using motion spotter or detection device alerts the enemy of your "position"? (not your presence in the area, but ....... that's equally dumb? cause you can place a motion spotter in one position and move away? or you can shoot a dart to somewhere where you're not?)

so yeah, when dumb calls smart dumb

Yep, it's definitely been 6 years since I saw any Medics or Heavies leading any charges, either.

Of course you counted them so these claims are indisputable.

So ready.

Sound like good target priority to me.

Two snipers killed 8 guys crossing 50-75 meters to a capture point? I'm sorry you were apparently fighting Elusive1 clones with the No-Thumbs Brigade.

LMGs and Assault Rifles got a grand total of 1 additional BTK at their maximum damage range. It is highly unlikely that any Sniper bad enough to allow themselves to be killed by an LMG at max damage range has been transformed into a death-dealing wizard after the nerfs. It is just as unlikely that competent Heavy Assault players have been transformed into bumbling morons after the fact.

WHAT!?! Snipers controlling lanes? What black sorcery is this?!

...And now he just admitted to loving "forum PvP" which means he's just a troll/s***poster. Deleting him from my life through putting him on my ignore list seemed like the best choice. I don't really like putting people on ignore but its not like he's going to offer us anything worthwhile anyways.

Ok so for starters you I'm not wondering if you'll reach the top of the village idiots anymore.

You admit that you enjoy other people's grief more than the game itself, which is already a sociopathic tendency. Additionally when we are talking age in that other post... You come off as younger and younger as if you have to get your frustrations with your unsatisfying life out on others. It would be pathetic if I wasnt concerned. Try to find help, a good psychologist or something. The worst thing that can happen is that you become a better person right?

So far if this forum is a PvP analogue then you would be looking at a minus killscore because you commit suicide so much and a bunch of people around it who are confused as to why you are blaming them and claiming superiority.

As for the topic at hand. You are basically argueing "recon equipment is an advantage, that makes it OP".
Well other classes also have advantages. Its kind of why we have classes to begin with. Then you also say that if you fight an enemy more than once you know he's in the area... so what advantage does the recon equipment give again? More accurately knowing someone is in the area...
And by equipping some implants you can directly counter this OP toy. If you think it is such a problem why dont you equip them?
Also you seem to think that I've been having the exact same arguments as the others on the subject despite me not having joined the recon equipment part of this discussion until now.

To extend the analogue: you just blew yourself up with a grenade. Twice.

uh huh, what do you call this?

you're a player

I'm a player

we are vs each other

therefore = its pvp.

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on a side note, that argument is as simple as it gets, there's only other argument that is more simple which you and you fellow pvp friends don't get, and that is :

In a 1 vs 1 fight, there is more than one encounter. If you die, you spawn, and you fight again.

Which means that you know there is an enemy, who it is, and what class he or she is playing.

Therefore (this is the conclusion) : if it is true that using darts or motion spotter alerts the enemy to your presence. Once you've encountered each other, that doesn't ***** matter does it?

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But I already know that neither you or your wall-of-text nerdy, trying-to-look-smart friends will get those two arguments, even though my little sister (the one who plays with clothes pegs under the kitchen table) could undertand them when she was 5 years old.

Pest Control.

Calling this position 'wrong' doesn't even begin to do it justice. Debate is not 'pvp', and attempting to treat it as such is generally frowned upon as ad hominem.

I would give my left lung to be a fly on the wall on your first day in Debate Class.

In mathematics, a fraction can yield a large value for even a relatively small numerator provided the denominator is tiny enough.

I imagine the moderator's response, having heard Rooklie's argument, would have been something similar to this:

I mean, speaking of moderators, please, feel free to post about anything you want except the topic

I'm sorry, did you think this was YOUR foruM? lol

Beyond anything else you can say that is obnoxious or just plain overpowered about infiltrators, the one thing that needs to be addressed is giving long range weapons stealth. The high damage scout/battle rifles are a tad less powerful (apart from their functionality and stats) because the exposure time is significantly higher, but they still sport two shot headshots at range on an invisible class.

Much like how the deathcam really didn't change much, neither would this for long range snipers. At most, they wouldn't be able to take a long time to line up shots in safety. The real hit (and needed nerf) is to CQC/mid-range bolting, which is absolutely cancerous.

On another note, you could delete motion spotter and darts from infil and crossbow and the game would be at least 23.584...% better.

Citation needed.

That wasn't an argument on how it was balanced. Radar sure is powerful, but it isn't OP and breaking the game and the Infiltrator class. You have a huge advantage if your side has an Infiltrator and the other does not, but that is true for most any class. If you have a medic, you have a huge advantage as compared to the other side if they didn't have a medic. If you have an Engineer, you have a huge advantage as compared to the other side if they don't. If you have an HA, you have a huge advantage as compared to the other side if they don't, and so on. When you have an Infil on your side and they have one on theirs, the radar usually cancels out. Great. You know where the enemy is? A lot of your team moves over there, and they start fighting. Then the enemy Infiltrator does radar too, and the rest of their team goes to fight you. Big whoop. There was shooting over there, and your team was over there, meaning there was enemies over there, meaning radar doesn't help you as much as in smaller fights. In bigger fights, it only helps you to stop flankers and find another fight within the fight where you may get some more ground on your enemy.

It also requires you to be semi-competent enough to act on the information in a way that doesn't get you killed. The noobs that play Infiltrator will use their cloak and radar as a means to find enemies and run head-on at them. They think they are invisible, and that doesn't work. You see, playing the Infiltrator is a mental game too, and you have to master that or at least be better at it than you are at just aiming for the head.

Well radar is actually very broken. Why could it otherwise be banned in 6v6. Saying having an Engi in a fight is an advantage... just wow. Engi is a **** class for infantry vs infantry. Infil is op because of access to a spotter and a 1hk weapon. Infil has nothing to do with having a good mental game. You just have to know how to position yourself and take a shot, that's all there is to it.

If we are going to boil it down to basic than all you have to do is learn to Bob and weave when fighting infils and that's it...

Did I say Engi was an advantage in Infantry vs infantry? No. Also, I don't care about a 6v6 fight. Thats not even the point of the game. The fact that you say they are OP because of one weapon doesn't prove that infiltrators are OP. How often does the average person die to an OHK Infiltrator in comparison to an LMG Heavy or an SMG Infiltrator? They have those too, and you die to those more often than an OHK Infiltrator. Now being a good Infiltrator DOES have to do with having a good mental game. If your brain isn't a sack of potatoes, you know that you can't run up to a group of enemies headon and that your cloak takes time to decloak. You know that you have to flank from a position that won't put you into a headon fight with an LMG and +450 more HP to shoot through, so you have to quickly plan your attack to guarantee a kill. It doesn't matter what your loadout is. If you are sitting back sniping, you need to be careful that you don't get flanked and that you don't take too many shots. You also need an escape plan to get out of there when they eventually do come for you. The fact that you don't understand that you should be playing on a mental level as the Infiltrator means you don't understand the class as you should.