2/2/2017 Update was a horrible move

This is incorrect. The infiltrator has the worst latency penalty of all the classes. Imagine trying to activate your cloak but in the other players view your cloak hasn't activated because your cloak is lagging. LUL.
You can still see infiltrators if they are moving whilst cloaked. They are only first to engage if you are not paying attention.

It's a motion spotter, the counter play is to take sensor shield, move in-between the scan time, shoot the motion spotter, move around the motion spotter, use a motion spotter yourself or simply stay still, watch and listen - if you're in a 1 vs 1, i'd rather be a heavy assault, medic or a max.

The motion spotters are balanced so that it cannot spot someone without revealing to them that its spotting them. So anyone pushing a building will know that they are spotted by a motion spotter - by the motion spotter icon on the map.
Scout radar - is a whole different story.

I think alot of people will disagree with your definition. Whilst it's correct that Infiltrators can pick their engages closer than the other classes; Close quarters, infiltrators are often avoiding engaging until they can get a headshot and escape without losing health.The sync/delay works against them of all the classes, imagine I have 1 shot in my chamber and I miss because of interpolation. The other classes don't have this problem.

Demigan, thank you for your competence in this matter. You should be dodging beforehand. People don't get that. They don't understand target acquisition because they never play as an Infiltrator. Every shot you take as a CQC sniper means you have to make it land and you have to readjust your aim after literally every shot. You miss? Oof for you. So you have to go for the best targets, the easiest targets, or the targets that are going to kill you. If you stand still, you are an easy target. If you are a medic reviving someone, you are probably an easy and the best target. If you are staring at the Infiltrator, you are the one who is probably going to kill him if he doesn't shoot you first. So you have to make a decision, acquire your target, aim at him, adjust for his movements, and shoot; and you better make it count! My point is that time goes into even choosing who to shoot and aiming accordingly, so if you are running or walking in a straight line, standing still, or aiming at someone and strafing, you are the person we are going to shoot. So never do those things. Even if you need to turn to shoot the sniper, just zig zag until they run out of ammo, and wait for the pistol whip. Then you have a higher chance of winning. (unless its a revolver)

Adding a delay to the cloak won't fix the problem, because you still probably wouldn't react fast enough and you'd still complain. You wouldn't fix it with a delay unless the delay was big enough to seriously punish Infiltrators. In that case, you'd have to buff greatly how long you can be cloaked, because if you are going to get punished for uncloaking, you better make it count. Idc if a delay was 1+ seconds long if it meant I could run around cloaked for 20 seconds and still keep the same recharge rate.

I think the best way to balance this is to make target acquisition harder. That works much better than a cloak delay. If it makes it harder to score the headshot while you are moving, then the number of people who immediately pop out of the cloak and shoot someone and recloak are gonna be reduced.

I have one more thing to say about the radar and cloak. In a 1v1 situation, the radar is useful to the Infiltrator but also detrimental. Why do I say that? The darts and spotter let you know where they are as long as they are moving, but when you place them down, it lets them know that an Infiltrator is in the area. You need to uncloak to fire the darts and to place to spotter, so then you need to recloak to go back cloaked. Alright then. Whats the deal? You just let them know the general area where you are, and there are only so many ways you can come to get them usually, unless they are in the middle of a field. They can fool your radar by sitting still. Lots of Infiltrators rely too heavily on it, and when it is exploited, they fall into a trap. If they get the jump on you, the Infiltrator, you are going to die 9/10 times. You have to fully uncloak, which takes time, and you have to turn around and shoot them before they end you, but you are a bullet down.

The cloak works by deceiving the eyes. Do not let your ears or intuition be deceived too.

It became more pronounced since the DX11 update.

I think they would need to make a fairly extreme adjustment to fix it. Either a long 1-2 sec delay, or perhaps no delay but do not allow a recloak for a few seconds after.

Something. It's straight up broke right now. I know bolters like to pat themselves on the back and whatnot but the engagements are not fair in the slightest at the moment so skill is only part of it. Is what it is I guess.

And yeah, not talking about Stalkers at all. Those guys are the usual culprits on the "contested" points. Just using them to illustrate that the cloak actually is VERY effective particularly if stationary.

But overall - game balances is not too shabby right now. Couple sore spots here and there. I think the heavy shield is where it needs to be right now. They might need to add some slight handicaps to medkits though. Those should be for post engagement, not mid engagement.

Nah I get this and I fare better than most. And if I'm lucky to generate a miss on the first one, I'm all set. The fixed reload time makes it easy to juke subsequent shots.

But all said. Infils CAN shoot while invisible. They may have some visibility at the time the shot flies but for all PRACTICAL purposes, the targets reaction time and skill level has zero outcome on the engagement. It's broken.

I mainly play infiltrator when i play infantry. It is easier to solo with, and if my friends are on we are usually doing something with some sort of vehicle.

I have the butcher and the godsaw, and so lately ive been working on the vs heavy directive and i too think that sniping is a little broken.

I think the biggest problem with sniping is the addition of the quick pull bolts that allow you to chamber another round without un-scoping.

This mechanic, forcing you to un-scope to reload made sniping much more difficult and balanced. Now bolt action rifles are basically slow firring semi autos which they should not be.

As far as cqc infs go, they are SO easy to see now, unless you are wearing thermals that they are basically free certs. And if they sneak up behind you with an smg, thats no different than if anyone else sneaked up on you.

Stalker infs with 1hk knives are a little silly too.

I guess, but I never get shot by an invisible Infiltrator. If I get shot by an Infiltrator with a CQC Bolt, I knew it was coming. I heard him uncloak and saw him aiming directly at me. I could have attempted a juke when I knew he was there in the first place, but it may not have changed the outcome. If their aim is good, they were gonna probably kill you with one shot, whether or not they were cloaked, and you would still probably have not had time to react if you weren't doing so beforehand. But yeah, I see your point.

Exactly 30 seconds of Google-Fu yielded the following, which is a direct link to the patch notes to said update. A cookie if you can guess which weapon specifically was not changed by this patch. Keep going at this rate and by the end of your post we'll have enough irony to build our own battleship.

Pnkdth has already provided the relevant numbers showing why you're wrong, so I won't bother adding superfluous links to the dogpile.
I will let you know that offering up your own stats as "proof" that Gun X or Class Y is overpowered is a meaningless waste of time even if we ignore the enormous preconceived bias you demonstrate.

See, it's not that I don't think you aren't a trustworthy person, it's just that I think you might be willing to embellish certain things in order to reinforce your biases opinions that you've already decided are facts.
Also I don't trust you.

Oh spare us all the doom and gloom, Chester. Arena didn't have the Infiltrator class, either. It almost looks like they removed the two most powerful Infy v Infy classes from the game in order to simplify balance, but that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

Are you un-ironically suggesting that everyone should stand and shoot at each other like we're reenacting Antietam with spandex? And if anyone takes cover or uses abilities or does anything other than channel the Duke and John Rambo's bloody love child they are a cheesy exploiter? Good Grief, Charlie Brown.

Oh, absolutely.

There is soooo much random ******** on these forums I swear. But out of all the blah blah blah and simply dumb reasoning, I just had to pick one, cause I'm not gona reply to all of them.


THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT AS TO WHY RADAR FOR INFILTRATORS IS BALANCED :

"When an infiltrator uses radar, the opponent knows that he is somewhere in the base".


__________________________


THIS IS MY COUNTER ARGUMENT :


...... sorry, I'm speechless...

This is the way.

So say we all.

I've been trying to come up with solutions to make this more enjoyable, but it's not easy without outright nerfing it to all hell.

1: Headshots deal a maximum of 999 damage, they create a full concussion effect including the inverted mouselook that lasts as long as the longest reload+bolt action and it locks the ability energy for the same duration.

This would mean that headshots are always a kill if the target is already damaged, but not against full health targets. The concussion effect is meant to allow the Infiltrator an easier finisher shot even if he fired his last round from the magazine and locking the ability energy is to add a big negative effect to the player and why shouldn't we? You just survived what used to be a OHK and have a chance, however small, to try and survive.
The problem with this is mainly that many snipers would need to be redesigned with the lack of a OHK in mind. In many scenario's your opponent's head is practically the only visible thing, and just crouching or doing a single step sideways can get you safe behind cover or friendlies. At least this is the case for snipers who are near their allies and supporting them at the frontline. This isn't a very good solution.

2: Add a new cloak like Stalker cloak. Stalker cloak prohibits the use of primaries altogether. This new cloak would simply be the only form of cloak that is allowed to wield a sniper rifle (or better: Bolt-action sniper as semi-auto snipers aren't a problem) and the old Hunter and Armor cloak would no longer be allowed to carry snipers.
This new cloak would have a normal cloak animation, but decloaking will take a longer time from start to finish. So rather than the decloak taking half a second from a tiny shimmer to fully visible it could take two seconds or so. This puts a higher burden on the sniper to decloak in advance of his shot, which is kind of fitting with the class. It still prevents other weapons from being affected by it. This is probably the better idea.

3: Not a full solution but still: As Silkensmooth said the pull-bolt that allows multiple shots in a row without releasing ADS is a bad addition to the game. At the very least let the bolt-action throw off the zoom by a mile and a half so you have to find the target again and can't keep him in sight during the bolt-action (unless you go out of ADS!).

Put cloak on an extra weapon slot. Problem solved

This is not an argument, but rather a poor attempt to discredit him. He provided a known fact, you provided drivel at best.

If an infil uses a motion dart you can in FACT with a bit of reasoning come to the conclusion an infil is near your location. Their is one exception to this as xbow allows any class to use a motion dart. If you see a sensor on the map then you can in FACT assume an infil is near or was near at the very least.

Motion sensing is not a broken mechanic, it lacks the ability to tell the vertical location of an opposing player. That though, is not what makes it a balanced mechanic, what does is the fact that there is counterplay to the system. You have 2 implants that will 100% throw a wrench in almost all infils plans (Sensor Shield, and Catlike). While on subject of catlike, even if you didn't have said implants the following acts counter motion sensor.... STOP MOVING, and/or crouch walking. That's right, all classes in the game naturally can counter sensor.

The amount of times I have gotten the jump on infils because they used a motion sensor and alerted me of their existence and me following up with counter play is comical at best.

Now, what is your next gripe? I will gladly provide feedback to it as well.

I realllly want to reply, cause the argument is that easy, I mean it's like explaining to a 8 year old why the water falls from the sky.

My only concern is whether you are honest about what you're writing, simply discussing (like most people here) on these forums because you're bored, sitting on the toilet with your ipad doing some forum pvp,, or whether you're trolling.

Because there comes a point, when it's hard to tell the difference between a troll, and a genuine dumb post.


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Most of the best universities all around the world have a debate club, it's awesome, it can be fun, what the Greeks called sophism (though they didn't mean it in the same way).

But I never set a foot there .. ever, I don't talk unless I have something to say and I don't, or rather, I'm not going to reply to posts anymore that are an absolute waste of time.























If you think infiltrator radar alerting the presence of an infiltrator in a 1 vs 1 fight is a reason to justify the balance in that fight, you're either trolling, having fun "arguing for no reason", or super mega encredibly totally entrirely ***** dumb.

(edit) -> I'm not saying your dumb, most dumb people couldn't write like that, I'm saying you're trolling me and you can **** off

When you have no argument resort to weak flimsy character attacks and present no factual evidence, while throwing the occasional buzzwords like "troll". But with your forum signature I knew better than to engage you and expect reasoning.

I would like to point out once again, that the motion dart is not isolated to the Infil, while certed the infils is best and engie can benefit from their ammo pouch, but all class have access to the dart. I hope that your whole reasoning behind the infil being OP isn't based on radar alone.

ok

so for all of you ignorant, super young and not quite totally developped minds out there, I'll do it, I'll point out the obvious. One last time :



In a 1 vs 1 fight, you will either die more than once and/or kill the enemy more than once.


If you disagree, it's only because you are thinking of a situation where there is no spawn. That's not a fight. That's a duel.


So ....

Not withstanding your ability, as a thinking human being, to press M on your map, and to hover your mouse over the base you're in to check if someone is there...




let me put it in red.

let me underline it.

IF YOU ENCOUNTER THE ENEMY MORE THAN ONCE.

THEN OF COURSE YOU KNOW THAT HE IS THERE..

SO THE FACT THAT YOUR RADAR ALERTS THE ENEMY TO YOUR PRESENCE IS IRRELEVANT

Seriously though...

I have already told you a few methods to counter the function all together for Motion sensor.... Also if you have to hit Mand hover your mouse over a hex to see if there is an existing enemy than that is rather alarming. Just hit H and keep bobbing and weaving....

wait what?

counter the function of radar?

Look, the argument is that using radar alerts the enemy of your presence. I'm saying if you fight more than once then you both know that you are both present.

And to that, you reply what exactly? You have told me methods to counter the function? LOL

How do you counter knowing if someone is there? Or not? You can't counter, you either know or you don't.

yeah, thought so, **** off you ******* troll .. lol

Uh huh, so if you both know each other are currently there fighting over a base, what is your issue with the radar and its interactions with an infil....