2/2/2017 Update was a horrible move

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by OneShadowWarrior, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. Rooklie




    So here you are ! I couldn't see you from so far away, nice to meet you ! :))))

    (if you don't like to read, skip until the line) :)

    I'm not going to get into the statistics. I'm not going to use any figures or numbers because that leads to pages and pages of endless discussion about how, for example, if a certain weapon has more kills, maybe it's because more people use it, or blah blah blah.

    And I shouldn't have to, I' m simply going to share a few points, which show clearly how strong the infiltrator is.

    However, before I do, one thing, -probably the most important thing- to consider is context. For example, a 1 vs 1 fight has nothing to do with a group fight, a big fight is entirely different as well and even then, it depends what you're looking at :

    for example

    a) are you looking at how much a certain class contributes to capturing or defending a base?
    b) are you looking only at how many kills they get?

    etc

    anyway
    ______________________________________________________________

    1. Starting with the 1 vs 1 :

    Infiltrator is absolutely, totally, mega-*******-there-is-no-denying-it-ly strongest class to play, if only because -thanks cloak- you get to pick when to engage, which means you get to shoot the guy in the back.

    But it's not just that, infiltrators have an ability which is considered to be cheating, it's ocnsidered to be a hack, in most games, it's called radar. So not only does an infiltrator remain invisible, he also can know, at all times, where is opponent is.

    Those two points alone, simply the cloak and the radar, make infiltrators 100% over powered in 1 vs 1 situations.



    2. In group fights :

    I've covered the cloak and radar in 1 vs 1, it's obviously also true in group fights (not to mention that you are also supporting your friends and when you see that little red dot come close to the door, he has no idea, but you and your friends are waiting and you know that that guy is toast.) (as a matter of fact, there isn't anything that guy can do to counter that, unless you expect him to crouch around the whole base).

    So yeah, thats op already, but the additional thing is the TTK. I won't get into the one shot and how ******** that is, (and I'm ok with it if it's a sniper, far away, but at close range it's just ********). Let me know if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere infiltrators had a head shot damage multiplier. At any rate, whatevre the weapons used, the TTK in the game in general is pretty low if you'r shooting the head, and the TTK infiltrators have, don't often give the opponent the chance to turn around and aim, because, if the infiltrator knows what hes doing, that guy is also toast. He might get in a couple shots, but he's dead.


    edit -> I forgot to mention something (which I mentioned in this thread already), that's ping / latency / delay / and sync. As I understand it, what you see on your screen isn't 100% happening at the same time on other player's screens. That delay, you know about (duh). Now I'm not an IT guy, but as I understand it, what it means is that whoever engages first also has a few ms advantage. (this explains why some other guy earlier was complaining about those infiltrators who "shoot from invisible".. (maybe, not sure about that).

    Anyway, since by definition, unless they are stupid, infiltrators are usually the ones to engage, on top of all the stuff that makes them OP, they also benefit from the sync/delay thingymidjiggy thing.

    3. In bigger fights :

    In bigger fights, way I see it, no problem, infiltrators are balanced, and that's because they are so squishy, so as soon as they start shooting, someone nearby is gona run up the stairs and see him and kill him easily.

    Which is maybe why people think infiltrators are balanced, cause they are judging their performance on big group fights.

    ________________________________________


    So at the end of the day, infiltrators are 100% over powered in most situations, and (probably) balanced in bigger fights.
  2. Johannes Kaiser

    Not really sure about the rest of the post, but the last sentence is very true. Balance is important, but not to the exclusion of everything else (fun for one).
    • Up x 1
  3. Lord_Avatar


    I created my account in 2013... You assume my game time is spread evenly - it's not. Historically, almost everyone ******** about something being OP sucked at the game and I'm pretty sure you're no exception. :D

    Unless sniper rifles have been buffed through the roof (or everything else has been nerfed into oblivion) not much has changed since "my days" and my opinion still stands.

    Feel free to inform me on the state of infantry balance as it is right now, though. Like I said - I've been away for quite some time - maybe there was a revolution. ^^
  4. Rooklie



    No, I assume you haven't played much for the past 2 years, which is what you said, which is why it's not really an assumption ...

    As for the years before, I know what an average is, I can google you teh definition if you want ! (got plenty of time on my hands) and no, I'm sorry, I mean I get that you want to come across as... actually, forget it, you're a vet, a true hardcore player, soo much game time, it's irrelevant because you haven't played in the past 2 years and it's the past 2 years that we are talking about.
  5. Lord_Avatar


    I'm not trying to come across as anything, or anyone - because I don't have anything to prove. You, however, should point out the "catastrophic" changes that took place in the last two years that made the Infiltrator so amazingly OP. Otherwise I'll just toss you in the "fails at game - spouts nonsense" bag - as will most people, who actually know the game and do reasonably well in it.

    I read the reply you gave to pnkdth, and aside from some poorly worded nonsense, there is barely anything of substance there.
    • Up x 2
  6. Rooklie



    Yup, you do have something to prove. What you said.

    You said "infiltrators OP??????? lol"'

    If you don't think infiltrators are OP, it's probably because you haven't spent much time playing the game, which is something you admited.

    And yeah, I have something to prove, and I proved it, I proved you wrong ;)
  7. Lord_Avatar



    You proved nothing. You cried a bunch about being whacked by Infiltrators, that's it. Given that not much has changed since I was forced to stop playing regularly, my experience remains relevant. All you have is an opinion. An opinion certainly not shared by veteran players (who continued to play the game after my "departure").

    I've been through countless discussions just like this one and with a few notable exceptions (like, say - ZOE), all the whining boils down to having your *** repeatedly handed over to you and then complaining about it on the Forums.

    I'm afraid your're yet another case of "git gud" and that is my parting advice to you. :)
  8. Scroffel5

    what is this crap? Infiltrators aren't OP in 1v1s. Lets take each classes basic skill one by one and put it against an Infiltrator. The HA has an overshield, effectively adding more health, plus having damage resistance. This allows them to take more shots. The Infiltrator gets cloaking, which is effective ONLY when you get the drop on someone. It is NOT effective in combat. The Medic can heal themselves and others around them. When put up against an infiltrator, they can heal some of their health, maybe getting an extra bullets worth of life, but they are already up 100 shield health, so you already have the advantage, unless you get jumped. The Engineer doesn't truly have much of an advantage other than in the automatic weaponry category and the shield health. The LA can fly and dodge a few bullets and is best suited for getting the jump on an Infiltrator, excluding other Infiltrators. The MAX is just laughing at the Infiltrator.

    You have to specify what makes them OP, because cloaking ain't it, chief. If you say CQC BASRs, I can agree. They'd be fine if they had some bigger downside, like 3 body shots, a really long reload, and higher chamber time. That is the only instance where I truly think the cloak helps them because all they need is one shot, which is much easier to do in close range. I am biased against it though, but it would help me the most if I cert into one.

    If you think radar makes it the best, I can't tell you much chief. Give it to any other class and you'll get the same results. Your complaint then, would truly be against recon and not the Infiltrator. If it is only one part of the class, then it isn't the full classes fault.

    Now you mention big fights, where you are going to get 2v1'd, aka MOST SITUATIONS! You aren't in a 1v1 in most situations, and even so, you are probably gonna get destroyed if your aim is the exact same as the person who you are fighting. If you fight someone the exact same skill level as you, the Infiltrator will probably lose out, and here is why. Every other class has a skill that works because it is coded ingame. The Infiltrators ability works because of how we are coded in real life. We gloss over them, and a good Infiltrator knows that we have to play to that. Now, we can make it easier to see them and render them useless when you need them the most, or we can try to come up with another ability for them, say something that could be worse like an EMP blast that only affects the enemies. We could do that, or we can keep what we have and know that it could be worse or better, but we stick with it. Here is my solution that you may find weird at first before i explain: make every class cost nanites.

    Why Scroffel? Why would you say something so stupid? I know, I berated a guy who said the same thing, but here is why I think that it could be done. As of now, there is no regular foot soldier. There are just speciality classes. The LA, HA, Medic, Engi, Infiltrator, and MAX are all speciality classes. Why is there no basic dude who has no ability and access to every weapon? If we do that and make Infiltrators speciality classes less prevalent, that means that, while they are squishy because of nanite cost, you get what you pay for. You get something that can change the tide of the battle. I am not suggesting any huge amount. I say 75 nanites or higher for the price, so that you have to be alive for more than 1 minute. That'll solve the problems you have because every class would be justified for how good it is.
    • Up x 1
  9. Rooklie



    ok you know what? I'm not here to waste my time, a lot of people are here cause they enjoy talking, just for the sake of talking, you know? Like those guys who enjoy fighting for no reason, just cause they like to fight?

    I mean don't get me wrong, I love to discuss things, search for answers to questions, solve problems, suggest solutions, share opinion, whatever, I love that.

    I gave you a reply in good faith, that has arguments that show why an infiltrator class is so strong and how. I wasn't expecting such a trash reply.

    So take your troll post which smells very stinky, in fact, it smells a lot like "I'm an infiltrator and I'm really afraid that one day DBG (or Thieves Planet Games) will nerf my class so I will spew out whatever random **** I can think to help stop them doing that, shove it up your *insert whatever gives you pleasure here*, don't panic, they aren't gona nerf you ok, even though they should, but before I go, let me give you a little tip : the devs (officialy, I mean it's like an official thing) don't read these forums, so nothing that anyone says here will have an impact.
  10. Rooklie



    I proved that you had no game time, especially in the last 2 years, so you couldn't know how infiltrators have been since 2 years.

    I mean that's not a very long sentence, it isn't a paragraph, I think you might get it this time!
  11. Demigan

    There is this idea floating in the discussion that Infiltrators are some kind of OP superbeast when players are in the open. This is similar to the complaint that LA's are always on rooftops and getting sniped.
    As someone who plays the LA heavily, snipers are some of the least of my problems, they have little chance of hitting a moving target at range and they are often just as tunnelvisioned on one particular area like tanks are. The only reason Infiltrators are a powerful class is not their slow KD whoring that doesnt have a huge impact on the game but their CQC capabilities with SMG's. There are some niche actions that should be fixed, like vehicle terminal sniping, but otherwise the Infiltrator isnt an OP class. Powerful, yes, OP, no.
    • Up x 1
  12. AbsinthSvK

    i think boosting cloak class was good step . now its looks like scify battle.cloaked players are pretty powerfull and its good because it bring more diversity.
  13. pnkdth


    It is perfectly fine to have the opinion that OHK should not exist in CQC/mid range combat. It is point which has been echoed before. My concern, and why I use data, is that there is a difference between perceived power and actual power. Much like how people make the argument "I die from this weapon all the time, it must be OP" when speaking about the Orion but when you look at the overall performance of the Q4 (highest BR players) there is absolutely nothing significant about the weapon. Plus, since VS have two viable LMGs (Orion/BG) there really shouldn't come as a big surprise they see the most use. The BG, however, is both popular AND outclasses everything else so in this case I'd say something needs to be done.

    A one shot kill might very well seem instantaneous but there is also the factor of target acquisition (because the vast majority of players will take longer to fire a single shot rifle) and the advantages of automatics (that other weapons will already have killed you, you just didn't realise it was an "instant" kill). Also, low TTK automatics (which crowd the CQC/mid range combats) are also much more forgiving with reacquiring targets.

    However, if your argument is more about the mechanical side, i.e. OHK in CQC/mid range, then I'd start there rather than using a particular class which doesn't show any signs of actually over-performing as the basis for your argument. Cuts through to the heart of the issue and makes it about what you think is the problem rather than going after what might be someone's favourite class. That said, I can emphasise there and its been an contentious issue in almost all MMORPGs. No one likes to get one-shotted or stun-locked to death by a stealth character and it has always been nerfed in one way or another.

    I realise I went after HAs in my previous replies and I allowed my frustrations of past threads to spill into this one.
    • Up x 2
  14. Rooklie



    I'm sorry, when that other guy replied to my post I thought it was him I had first replied too but it was you :)

    The one shot, but not just the one shot, the TTK with any weapon used by infiltrators is an issue for me but only part of the issue.



    I get that you didn"t read the rest of my post, it was quite long, I do that too. I'll summarise :

    -> how strong the infiltrator class is (just like most things in the game ((think liberator)) depends on context (it's very strong in 1 vs 1 and low pop fights and balanced in bigger fights)

    -> having radar is a HUGE advantage (especially in low pop fights, it's more balanced in bigger fights if only because in those fights there will usually be another infiltrator using radar)

    -> cloak, the capacity to be invisible is a huge advantage too, I mean how could anyone argue against that? The only thing anyone could say would be that it is balanced by infiltrators being squishy, which, they are a little, I guess ???

    at the end of the day, any of these things isn't what makes the class over powered, but when you add it all up... however, it also depends on context, it depends on how many players are fighting.

    ___


    this one I'm not sure of. What i wrote above this line is obvious but this I'm not sure :

    Since infiltrators are usually the first to engage, they take advantage of server delay / sync. That can often be a really unfair advantage.

    ____


    Question :

    What effectively counters an infiltrator? (rock paper scissors?)

    Answer:
    Another infiltrator...
  15. Scroffel5

    Rooklie, you really gotta specify what you think is OP about the class. If you think CQC is the problem, specify which part. If you think it is CQC Bolts, give a way to balance it. If you think it is SMGs, give a way to balance it. If you think it is just any sniper, give a way to balance it. If you think it is cloaking, give a way to balance it. If you think it is radar, give a way to balance it. Don't simply site a problem without giving real fixes.

    Also, the best counter to a CQC Infiltrator is a HA. The best counter to a sniper Infiltrator is another Infiltrator or someone with a BR. Those things are freaking deadly when you aren't expecting it.
  16. JibbaJabba


    Not jumping on the broader argument, but I'll just point out that with current clientside mechanics, bolters can indeed shoot while invisible. They are only visible if they miss. If they hit, they will not become visible to the victim until the shot is already fired.

    It's my one and only complaint with the whole class: Shouldn't be allowed to shoot while invisible but they can.

    Don't say they aren't invisible either. We've all watched the "contested" point circus before. :p
  17. Rooklie


    Seriously..

    You'er ***** serious?


    You post this post, LITERALLY under one of mine that says :





    Which is basically PROOF that you haven't read any of my posts and I'm talking to a ***** wall.
  18. Scroffel5

    I said you have to REALLY SPECIFY. Whats wrong with the radar and how do you fix it? How is cloaking too big of an advantage, and how do you fix it? Legit, did you even read what I said in full or just immediately reply?
    • Up x 1
  19. Scroffel5

    Well yeah, you have that possibility, but I would count that as an extreme case of low ping, super fast target acquisition, and good rhythm. Adding a delay would only further punish mid to high ping players, while having little effect on low ping players. You'd still instantly die. To make CQC sniping harder, reduce it to only iron sights or make sights severely destabilize the weapon. Add scope sway to every sight and boom! you have a weapon that makes it much harder to get hits with, like the old Amaterasu.

    As for the contested circus, we aren't talking about Stalkers as far as I know.
  20. Demigan

    About the whole "can OHK a player before he becomes visible" thing:

    Lets say we have an infiltrator with 1000ms (1s) ping against someone with 50ms ping.
    I'm not sure off the top of my head how long it takes to decloak but it doesnt really matter, so lets put it at half a second.

    The infiltrator decloaks at t=0. Ping is round trip latency, so it takes half the time for the signal to reach the server. At 0.5s the server knows you decloaked.
    He fires at t=0.5 and scores a headshot. The server doesnt know this until t=1, as it takes 0.5s for the signal to reach the server.

    At t=0.55 the signal of reaches the victim being shot, who sees the Infiltrator decloak. Giving him the decloak time minus his own latency to react before the headshot reaches the server. You now have 0.45 seconds of time to see and kill the Infiltrator. If you do the kill he made should be ignored.

    "Ah but you cant DODGE his shots!"

    Even under perfect conditions this is nigh impossible regardless of what game you play. Unless he's decloaking in your face he'll be somewhere hidden or on a flank. This means you basically have the time of the shot's travel time to react and dodge. Most snipers will be somewhere the 80 to 150m mark. So you've got between 0.1 and 0.18 seconds to react. Far too short to dodge anything. The bottom line is: you should have been dodging beforehand. Keep moving! If you werent moving or moving in straight lines you were dead anyway.

    But I'm interested to hear solutions to this. Viable one's, and not vile one's based on removing it or nerfing it to the ground.
    • Up x 5