[Suggestion] ESF Balance

Dogfighting as mosquito against reavers or scythes is awful. Give mosquito more vertical thrust or some other buffs you might come up with.

Maybe you should try the flying brick before saying it's good? Mosy is in a decent spot comparatively.

Yes i have piloted reaver. Not fully certed even. Mosquitos can't do anything.

What do you mean it can't do anything? Are you stating that YOU die to often it?

Reaver can literally sit there and shoot down the mossy.

I pull up stock nose guns and while it reflects reaver having more kills than the other 2 factions it's not by a large margin. Need some sort of proof that most is weak.

Proof is in the game. Try flying all ESFs and you clearly notice how garbage mossy dogfights are. Naturally mossy can kill ground stuff but dogfights are just as important. Reaver has ridiculous maneuverability for a "brick". Im not even gonna talk about scythe.

I have flight time... over 200+ hours when all esf are combined. Need proof. Stock nose guns are commonly used for dogfights and the difference between all 3 on vkph is a .4

You're only focusing on nose guns. Im talking about maneuverability here. If mosquito had that extra vertical thrust. Things could be different.

I am talking a stat that is used to measure kills per hour on vehicles.... commonly used for esf fighting. You are talking about mobility being bad and stating it's the reason most (in your experience) losses dogfights. I'm looking for proof to this outside of just because you said so....

This is why it's a suggestion. If this somehow made mosquitos too strong than revert the changes. How the hell am i supposed to proof something that anyone can just go experience themselves. Spend few hours in mosquito then switch to reaver and oh boy do you notice the difference.

but.... I had a different experience. So how does your one experience proof anything?

I always thought Mosquitos were fine. I never played it or anything, but they seem to be shredding through our guys pretty fast and easy, but now that I think about it, more recently I have been seeing the Reavers taking down Mosquitos left and right. Mosquitos are just best for AI, I guess.

Scythe > reaver > mossie.

The Moosie is the weakest ESF.
When it comes to scythe and reaver the scythe might usually win unless the user flies like baton and abuse its thrust.

They all have their pros and cons, and are pretty balanced in the big scheme of things.

I do think the Mossy is the worst in 1v1s, but its strength is a very small profile from every angle. If you keep moving then it's my favorite for fighting against a group. The Reaver can get in, gank, and get out quicker, but it can't loiter the way a Mossy can. The Mossy also has the highest damage potential per magazine, so you don't have to reload as often, and its faster fire rate combined with more sustained dps makes aiming more forgiving. The Scythe and Reaver are better in 1v1 situations, but they're toast if an enemy gets a bead on your side while you're engaging someone else.

The mossie has the tallest hitbox... yes not biggest but tallest. The scythe might seem to have a bigger area but that's false because even from the top angle you have either the mid section ti attack or wings. It has to two big holes. So either section you choose to attack you're still left with a smaller hitbox then all 3 esf. So nice try but wrong.
The Mossie yes might have more damage potential but that means crap. The scythe is harder to hit, stronger thrusters. The reaver does more damage, stronger thrusters. The mossie is always at a disadvantage. What does the mossie have? More speed lol. Yes cause everyone knows running is the best way to stay alive right. Also the scythe is OP. You take all 3 esf, even skill and the scythe will usually win. It also is the ramming king, that **** can be on fire ram you and kill you while it survives.

I would say that the... 6 to 19% larger hitbox that the Reaver has on the Mozzie at almost every angle is a pretty clear disadvantage that can't be ignored.

It's also always so surprising how people proclaim the Scythe is the biggest from the top:

http://i.imgur.com/w3s6j.jpg

Not just looking at the actual pixel size where the Reaver is still the biggest, look at the hitbox locations.

The Reaver: One giant massive box near the middle where you would aim.
Scythe: A big hole at the front between the arms and 2 small holes near the back. If you cut off the two arms and filled in the back it would be about as big as the center of the Reaver.
Mozzie: pretty sleek, the thickest part is about as big as the Scythe's thickness but stretches much less across the length of the frame.

http://i.imgur.com/NVukD.jpg

Also with pictures like this it's hard to ignore that the Reaver is simply a flying brick that is much easier to hit consistently from any direction. If it didn't have a DPS advantage it would never get even close to being competetive.

Also something people rarely mention: Steering agility. How fast can you move the nose and actually aim or follow your opponent? Does anyone have any numbers about this? How people can try to have a serious discussion without something as simple as this is pretty mind-boggling.

In theory, maybe, but not in practice. If you take a shot at the top of a Scythe from any angle other than exactly above it, those holes disappear. People often use the donut analogy, but look at a donut from the top at 80 degrees instead of 90 degrees and it looks like the top of a pancake. Compare that to a Mossy which is always a small target. The Reaver is the real loser here. No reason to throw a TR pity party.

The Scythe is best for all but the very best in 1v1 encounters, but the Reaver absolutely has the most potential. And yeah, ramming with a Scythe is without doubt broken. Some technical anomalies for the Scythe you forgot to mention are the fastest reload for no other reason but VS, and Hornets that actually fly where you aim them. If we're talking average pilots, all but the top 1% really, then I'd agree the Scythe is OP in A2A. But this a combined arms game, and the Scythe is the worst at A2G. That's where the Mossy's speed really comes in to play, and where anti-max work with the Air Hammer shines. Not to mention both the Banshee and Air Hammer being infinitely better at A2A if you get jumped by an enemy ESF. But even in big and even dog fights, I'd rather have Reavers with their killing potential or Mossies with their evasiveness. Really in any situation outside of a duel I wouldn't want a Scythe.

Pitch, roll and yaw are pretty established as being identical, which is why it's never brought up. I've never tested it myself though. That would be a good project for when I have a little more time.

I've always heard the Mossy is the most drifty while the Scythe is the least. That's another thing I'd like to somehow test.

After auraxing the mossy and almost the Scythe and Reaver, they honestly feel pretty balanced to me. I 100% agree the Reaver is the hardest for most players to do well in, but I'd hate to see it tuned down to accommodate noobs, as it would lose all it's character that make it such a dream to fly. I'd rather see an NS fighter released that was a boring mix of everything we currently have. Maybe give it a higher top speed so noobs could stand a chance at running... Idk, I just don't want the Reaver to lose its flavor.

Rather than tune it down they should simply make it accessible. The basic flight controls that lots of games have for example? It's a weird decision to have the nose be controlled for half of it's imput by the mouse and the other half by the keyboard. You either have full control through the keyboard (GTA series, Just Cause) or you have full mouse control of the nose (and please not the horrible "nose starts pointing where your mouse points but actual "I move my mouse in any direction and the nose will move in that direction" that we have for infantry and tanks as well).

Then they should look at the mechanics. I'm OK with hover mode and such being a viable tactic, but why should all other air combat methods be useless? It creates the horrible situation where you can't really escape your opponent, any attempt to shake them normally gives the one chasing you an advantage most of the time and your best bet is to 100% of the time go into hover and start a hover combat. That's just a sucky system! You should never let there be only one skill that people invest in to dominate all. You always have to add skills that could be switched to, preferably making players constantly switch their style to try and combat their opponent's style who then reacts to you etc.