[Suggestion] Slight Nerf to Stalkers

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. Scroffel5

    You are dumb. If you hear an Infiltrator decloak, he probably isn't a Stalker. If you get one shotted by an Infiltrator, you are dead. If you get shot once by an Infiltrator, and he has a high enough damage weapon, he will probably kill you in the second shot! In that time, you won't be able to react quick enough, especially to a Commissioner or a Blackhand. Also, you are an idiot if you think that there isn't a way for an Infiltrator to one hit another Infiltrator with a Commissioner! Headshots do enough damage to kill. Your advice is so stupid, because it relies on them missing their next shot when they don't even need to move and when they are in a range where they are close enough to kill you in less than a second. If human reaction time is 0.2 seconds, which it is close to, and they have already hit you, and it takes 2 shots to kill, lets say TTK is 0.5 seconds, they only need 0.3 more seconds to kill you! You can't move fast enough to get out of the way and "to cover" fast enough to kill him. Idiot!
    • Up x 1
  2. Scroffel5

    Darklight baits Infiltrators to kill you. When you aren't looking in their direction, that is their opportunity to attack you. Most Infiltrators use the Commissioner, Blackhand, or if you are TR, the Repeater. You are freaking dead by then, unless you are an HA Adrenaline Shield Medkit dancer. Common sense will only get you so far, especially if you can't detect them crouch walking towards you while you are sniping, for instance. Common sense won't help you know where they are. I would know, because while my idiotic teammates are shooting at enemies, I hear a decloak and I go searching for Infiltrators. If it is frequent, it is most likely a Hunter or NAC Infil. If it isn't, they are either dead or a Stalker, and if it is a Stalker, I am not gonna find them without a Commissioner or LMG. The reason I say those weapons are because your basic sidearm probably won't kill them faster than they will kill you if they have the jump, even if they are a shot down. I bet you have no problem dealing with them since you are a PS4 player.

    Edit: Buff everything and its the same effect as if you nerfed everything. If everyone is a superhero, no one is. If everything is nerfed, nothing is. If everything is buffed, nothing is. A nerf is a reverse buff. If there is something unbalanced, you can either buff everything against it or nerf the unbalanced thing. Nerfing is subjectively easier than buffing everything. We can buff detection tools against Stalkers, or we can nerf it. DBG isn't too good on balancing, so I'd suggest a nerf, and then to bring it back with buffs.
  3. Exileant

    o_O As someone who has worked in the justice system, I can tell you first hand 9 out of 10 cases are simply skated over for even the remote possibility for similarities in a case and the person was convicted where a confession was involved. :confused: Those 25% are cases that have been reopened due to the person having a change of heart mid sentence.... ;) Usually due to something small, like promised money not being placed at the Canteen on time. :confused: Besides that is the legal term for it, there is no difference in what it is. That is like calling a rabbit a bunny, or a dog "Man's Best Friend". o_O He is an eye whiteness to his accounts; as they did happen, they have to be accepted as evidence. :rolleyes: The numbers you rely on so heavily for your stupid arguments are blind numbers that without video proof tied to it, can easily be manipulated. What is needed is some video proof. Sadly, even that can be manipulated, as in order to say something is overpowered all one has to do is slow play. However good players know what skilled play looks like, and we can easily make the call of "Get Good" or "Mmm. You may have a point."


    :confused: Yes, your personal story can support it alone. The main argument for skating over a case is: "Why would they lie?" "Nobody else was there to see anything different sooooooo, okay." :eek: This goes back to the reason why your parents taught you not to lie. o_O I do not lie, this means when I say something happened people usually take it as gold, place it under their pillow and live longer. I do not rely on numbers, unless they are a limit as to what I can carry... ;) Even then I test those waters too, as the numbers usually have a a give or take of 1. I test what people say for myself, then come back and deliver my judgment of the situation. :D I attack questions of unlikelihood not with: "There is not possible way." but instead, how did it happen for you? If I cannot recreate it, then you are an isolated incident. o_O The case where you called the Prowler Semi-Auto was just you not fully understanding what the terms Semi-auto and Full-Auto were. :D Which brings me to why people would likely have to test anything you said to be true. You speak without testing and rely almost completely on numbers. o_O You try to behave like a computer. Newsflash, computers are ignorant to the concept of manipulation. :( All they can go by is what they know has happened. "This person killed X amount of enemies in this amount of time." o_O People are capable of adapting to a situation almost instantly, which is why soooooo many people who cheat, do not get caught.
  4. Exileant

    :D In T.R.'s case that may be true, but they are T.R. N.C. fields a mini shotgun so yeah they are a distant number 2 and still on the side of (Spits). Everyone else is rather poor. I almost never get killed to a Commissioner, like EVER.... :confused: I count how many times I have seen it in the wild. It just does not damage large targets fast enough to keep up with the movement patterns in this game. :p Not to mention it blows your cover with every bullet.
    When I fist got the game, the second weapon I bought was the commissioner because I already knew what it was designed for... After firing it once, I knew it was a trap gun.... And did not bother with trying to learn it, as it would have destroyed my ratio. o_O That is a master's weapon, you either have to be really good at using it or finish them with a knife... :D If I am going to finish someone with a knife, I may as well be using the knife from the start....
  5. Campagne

    Doubt it, but anyways the vast majority of cases are open & shut. Confession or not, there is often an overwhelming amount of physical evidence because most criminals are stupid. The 25% of false confessions are most likely the result of coercion and the accumulation of stress and fatigue during the lengthy interrogations suspects often undergo, but a good number of people also just like the attention. There is also the matter of plea deals. I actually wrote a term paper on this subject for a psychology class once, funnily enough. "People who confess to crimes are always guilty," an ironic title for a paper which debunked the common myth. :D

    Regardless, eye witnesses are often flat out wrong if they're not just liars. Memories are extremely faulty and especially when dealing with a traumatic event many things are remembered incorrectly. Eye witness testimonies are not hard objective evidence and are not treated as such. They're good for convincing a jury because people can generally relate to the witness and understand a simple story much easier than a detailed and complicated explanation of a forensic analysis, and lawyers usually only care about what the jury thinks.

    "Man's best friend" is an opinion. A person saying they saw the crime doesn't mean a crime has even occurred, let alone that it had happened the way the witness described. Raw stats and especially those ripped directly from the game can easily be verified and are actually objective. Recordings are anecdotal and most often circumstantial, but a raw analysis of a weapon is not.

    No, it really truly cannot. Why would a person lie about an eye witness? It could not possibly be because of a desire for attention, to protect themselves or to cover for someone, or because they think they know something the investigators don't... And surely never because of a bribery or threat of violence or legal action.

    If you don't lie you must be insane, because half of what you say is obviously untrue or contradictory.

    Wrong person ya' moron. That was Demigan who told you about the Prowler not me.

    I simply do not need to test the self-evident. Gravity has an acceleration of 9.81m/s^2, why don't you jump off a building 50m tall and time it. When you hit the ground if you live you can compare the recorded time to your pre-fall calculations (remember to account for drag) and see if we've all been wrong about gravity this whole time. Likewise if I tell you the Jackhammer does the least damage per shot of any infantry shotgun I don't have to "prove" it because it's obvious.

    "Computers are ignorant to the concept of manipulation," hah! Do you know what a computer is? Does the phrase "manipulate the variable" mean anything to you? Or maybe "if X, then Y."

    This is a prime example of why anecdotal personal accounts are worthless as actual supporting evidence.

    According to Dasanfall, the Commissioner is the most used sidearm by far, just under triple the number of users compared to the next common, which is the Emissary. (~10500+ Commissioners, ~5000+ Emissaries).

    Your personal observations are dead wrong. You literally could not be more wrong.
    • Up x 1
  6. Exileant

    ;) No, my personal observations are right as they happened. o_O I am quite convinced that the fact P.C. has RAMPANT cheating and hacks going on are the reason sorry weapons like the Commissioner have the amount of kills on paper that they do. :confused: When you have cheaters, (decent cheaters) the one thing that seems to be a constant is: o_O Since they do not really take the time to play the game, they tend to pick the weapon that would logically be able to pull the numbers they need in order to hide what they are doing. The commissioner always felt like a fluff piece to me, not unlike the Lasher, as there are many more lethal options available. Logically they should be good in a heads up fight, but in reality they are terrible. :( Commissioner is the absolute Anti- to what a stalker is trying to accomplish. It has no Silencer and a stalkers main purpose is to get in close to a LOOOT of enemies and lay waste to the entire group. You cannot do that with a C. You will only get the D. if you tried. The whole follow up thing with a knife attack is stupid to me. That is another tactic I have not fallen to yet. I know it is used as I have murdered countless infiltrators trying to do it... However it is just not smart. Why bother when you have a Knife that can kill in one swing... Where as my Emissary can easily mow down up to 2 non-heavies and remain quiet the entire time. I can go from enemy to enemy until I run out of ammo (And I usually do) at which time I then swap to my one hit kill knife and risk an up-close battle....

    o_O Another thing you are not looking at is the Emissary was released much later that the Commissioner. Where the Commissioner was used at the height of Planetside 2's fame, the Emissary was not. :confused: The E. is a better gun any day of the week. It is easier for new players to pick up, and a Pro will know how to thrive with it against any weapon. :DThe C. falls under the category some of these slow T.R. players try to put the T7. The T7 has a niche, the C, does not, what area it might have covered was swiftly eliminated by the Bow.
  7. Scroffel5

    Screw you people's real life experience. I want logical, statistical, or emotional arguments to make me believe you. Also Campagne, you have to remember that he is on PS4. What may be balanced for him is not necessarily balanced for us, so if you use a number, it has to match his version, hence why I don't use many numbers unless they are confirmed true, such as gun damage models, TTK, hits to kill, and the like. Even if your numbers are correct, ya gotta make sure they fit the context with ratios intact. Now restate your counterarguments.

    I believe Stalkers need a slight nerf to cloak visibility because you can't detect them until their presence is made known via cloaking/decloaking or killing someone. Otherwise you'd never know. Darklights are nice, but they act as reverse baits to competent players, or they scare them off. It leads to the same type of annoying ESF play, but they can't fly. It also takes up a place on your gun, a tradeoff for detecting a single class that isnt rewarding against competent players. I argue quantity over quality, but am not objected to giving Stalkers a new class of primary weapons to counterbalance their visibility while in deep cloak. I encourage it. I suggest the bow weapon I made a suggestion about, which I will link now. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/add-a-primary-bow-type-weapon.252697/ this weapon should be made to perform well when paired with infinite stealth, and would blend well with a hide in plain sight playstyle.
  8. Campagne

    You don't have to accept it, the truth doesn't care. PC is absolutely rampant with cheaters, but once again your personal opinion doesn't affect the Commissioner. Like it or not it's a popular gun for a reason.

    Regardless your argument is entirely baseless and has nothing to support it. The Commissioner has more users because cheaters all flock to it? Even if that was even remotely true you'd still see them in use anyway. Lasher serves a purpose as a suppression cannon, not as a duelist's weapon like the Commie.

    Stalkers can't kill groups of players with only a pistol because all pistols have small magazines relative to the shots to kill. Any reaction from a player will result in a firing squad. The rest is even more irrelevant than usual. Who cares?

    The Emissary is younger than most of the sidearms currently in the game and it more popular than almost all of them. There is no basis for your argument to stand upon.

    Oh yeah, forgot he's a peasant pleb. Regardless, tough luck for him then. Shouldn't have merged the PC and PS4 forums. However I doubt the number vary much as far as weapon stats go. The minority does not dictate how the majority act either. This thread was started with PC players in mind, wasn't it? PS4 discussions are a fish out of water here.

    As far as stalkers go the most I think should happen is to give them some extra ammo to make up for the lack of a second gun and call it there. I enjoy the current playstyle as it is personally and they're far from too powerful or difficult to deal with.
  9. Johannes Kaiser

    Given that they can simply respawn after you kill them, scaring them into redeploying or retreating on foot is just as much a victory as killing them. Only difference is it will likely feel better to have shot that little bugger.
  10. Exileant

    :D It really isn't. Next to nobody uses it over here. That is the truth. :rolleyes: As you said, the truth does not care what you believe. Don't accept it if you do not want to. :confused: All I can tell you is I am not the only one who feels like the C. was a huge waste of money we wish we could get back....
  11. Exileant

    :eek: *Bounces rock off of N.C. helmet* o_O Look I cannot help that I have do and have done a lot in my shortish life, I can help that I use the experience to back up my claims, but why would you want me to? :D Hahahaha!
    ;) But you are right, counter argument time. As far as the game goes, the weapons I like to use with my Stalker already give me away. It looks like a floating glass brick even when crouched so no. :( I cannot really get down and dirty like I want to do now, so if you make them any more visible it will render the cloak system useless. As it stands not having a Primary is enough. o_O If you are going to make Stalkers more visible, fine. :eek: Give us our Primary back and remove the de-cloak delay before firing. I say for this reason, leave Stalkers alone. :confused: Besides, apparently the Kill Cam is kicking you P.C. players hind ends, so you all need to retain SOME benefit to playing as Stalkers.

    :eek:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-HOO-HOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?
    o_O Next time I will put some tears in my argument, YOU WILL BE MOVED INTO BELIEVING!!!
  12. InexoraVC

    It is simple - Scroffel5 is very low player. That is why he claims to nerf every aspect of the game after he got killed. :) l2p!
  13. DarkStarAnubis

    I find Stalkers dangerous only in ghost capping scenarios or 2 vs 2 stuff and the likes. If there are a lot of players and activity around a stalker has very limited options and can be highlighted by stray shots very easily. Shortly, they won't survive long. There are exceptions (usually very gifted players running around with activated knives plus some odd implants, true killing machines) but those are rare.

    In deserted bases you won't have enough time to react before being double tapped by a revolver. The Pilot can even OHK you if they are able to hit the head.

    The best counter I have found: just play as LA.
  14. Scroffel5

    well, by scare off, I mean that they make them run away. They are still in the area, but after you have been lulled into a false sense of security by thinking they are gone, they just shoot you when you put away the Darklight. Thats what I do, anyways.
    Then ok. Primaries are back. If Stalker becomes much better than the Hunter, Hunter cloak gets to be longer. Buffs, Ignorexa. Buffs. The only thing that bugs me about you people is that you never asked how much the cloak's visibility would be nerfed. I said "slightly", but that is very vague. You are disagreeing with me without even getting the picture of what I asked for, and that just didn't seem fair to me. You said my idea was bad before even coming to fully know what it entailed. So thank you for being reasonable, Exileant. Now, if the cloak ends up being too visible and Stalkers are now pretty much useless, cloak visibility will be buffed again, to maintain balance, however, they will not be buffed to the point of Hunter visibility. Stalkers will not be able to have snipers. I still want this bow idea in here somewhere, maybe class specific, maybe not, maybe faction specific variants, maybe NS.

    Again, if you nerf every aspect of the game, nothing truly got nerfed. If everyone is super, no one is. Same exact concept. You only change things if you nerf and buff things, and the thing is, I am asking for a rebalance, not just a nerf. If this nerf takes place, we can have primaries for Stalkers. what is wrong with you people and progress?

    Fair. What I liked to do when I first played stalker was get behind the enemy in a stalemate fight, sit still, and peak out to shoot people sometimes, and recloak. That got me some kills and helped out a bit. I don't like class specific counters to fighting something. I can understand fighting vehicles or air, but at the same time, you can do the same exact thing by pulling vehicles or aircraft. Its different in Infantry combat. You shouldn't be forced to play as one thing in order to be able to evade or kill another class. Yes, LA's can evade other classes very well, along with Infiltrators, and yes, HAs are killing machines, but you should be able to play the class you enjoy to do what you enjoy. I enjoy your post, though. Very well put together and not aggressive. Thank you.
  15. JudgeNu

    Idk where you get that. I havent owned or played a console since Sega Genesis.

    All your arguments above mean nothing.
    Youll have to be more specific for me to tell you the solution.

    If you cant find an infil with a darklight your doing it wrong.
    If you get killed while lookingthey may have a better playstyle than you in that situation.
    if its low pop situation i ignore infils and go elsewhere i dont typically hunt them.
    If your team is getting killed while sniping i call that a hard counter.
    IMO there should be a hard counter to most everything.
    You would have to be more specific of the situation for me to give you a proper answer.
    The situations are very different depending on factors such as population, the intention of your teammates, farming, capturing, defending, etc.

    Hard Counters.
    Id like to see Darklight headlights on all vehicles.
    Situational awareness, goes hand in hand with what i stated above.
  16. Scroffel5

    It literally says you are a PSN Player...

    Its not about finding an Infiltrator with a Darklight. That is a class specific counter designed to fight Stalkers. It is bait, for either of you. Bait for them to attack you or bait for you to attack them. When you are looking for an Infiltrator and you are using a Darklight, just shoot them. They are your main target and also your main predator. Thats what I do. I just shoot them when I am a Stalker.

    You don't hunt Infiltrators in low pop even if it means they are going to take back the point and stop your assault of the next base? Noted.

    We need less hard counters. Instead of a food chain, we need food webs. I'd much rather not have a hard counter to Infiltrators when we can just give an exploitable counter to them, such as the Darklight is and isn't. The Stalkers can exploit the Darklight, as you have to rely on that to see an Infiltrator, but not to hear them. If we can regularly see Stalker Infiltrators if we strain to look at them, I call that fair. Its exploitable. "Oh, you are the only one who knows I am here? You get the privilege of dying to me first!"

    Yeah, I give stories of when I have been killed by Infiltrators to back up my claim of them needing a slight nerf to the visibility of the cloak, but I can also give stories of how it would have benefited other players if they knew where I was when I killed them. People just walk right by, and all you have to do is a shot-knife combo and they are down.
  17. JudgeNu

    Like i said, if you cant find an infil with Darklight you are doing something wrong.
    I have died to them and i have killed being them.
    If my teammates want to sit back and farm and die to stalkers idc.
    They are doing nothing productive imo.
    Also i am done here as this will result in nothing.
    • Up x 1
  18. Zhakathoom

    Add a delayed lock on being able to fire/attack after decloak and also give recloaking a delay after shooting/attacking. An infil can decloak, kill me and recloak in the time it takes to run the holster medtool animation on my medic..
  19. Scroffel5

    Small delay to compensate for server lag. Fair. The thing is, how can we do this and keep the class on par with everyone else? This goes back to what I was saying about visibility. The cloak is hard to see, which benefits the Infiltrator. You don't see them, they come up to you, kill you instantly, and recloak before you can react. If its more visible, you have a chance, and we can always give something to compensate if it doesn't work as well as we hope. But hey, giving a delay just means that after they do instantly kill you, they can't run away.

    Side note: What if we reduce the visibility of cloaks, but when they are in cloak, they get a speed boost to running? I really like that!
  20. Exileant

    ;) Come on now Scroff, You know I have a Nuclear Power Plant in my brain storage unit. Hahahaha! :D I already knew very well what you were pitching. You were pitching something to the tune of forcing stalkers to need the cloak augment to get back to what a Hunters cloak would be. Hunter would be the better concealer, where as Stalkers are more of a delay when it comes to spotting them as a target. o_O Almost identical to the play style of a Hunter on Destiny. :( The cloak is terrible in that game... It turns you to mist that nobody in their right mind would miss. :eek: I am saying with how the cloak affects weapons differently, ANY adjustment to stalkers cloak would render my cloak useless as you would be able to see my weapon as it already looks like I am standing with it when I am crouching. :oops: When I run it looks like a hard glass version of my character beyond what the body is supposed to look. This is a very tricky system to begin with, and they just now got is somewhat balance.... :( Even though most of the Sidearms are trash for V.S..... :eek: They do not need to be fooling with the mechanics anymore.