Why VS win all alerts ?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Eroulca, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. adamts01

    They're just in it for fun. Nothing wrong with that. Compare them to VS though, who will keep 7 hives up and running, with an entire squad just sitting there with nothing to do just in case they get attacked. Or they'll sit in a bubble with 12 gals and nothing to shoot at. Or they'll sit outside an empty spawn room with 24 HESH tanks base after base. Their fun is in winning, at the expense of gameplay. TR is somewhere in the middle.
  2. InexoraVC

    Not @Miller server.
  3. Campagne

    I obviously disagree. This is a representation of the skill of the average player. If the average player has roughly the same skills in combat regardless of faction, there is no reason to believe players with differing non-combatant skills join specific factions uniformly. There is nothing to suggest VS players play only the VS and not either competitor and that they possess extra skills. (The average person possess a average skill set and is of an average intelligence.)

    The VS win more but are shown to have extremely average players just like the NC & TR. This leaves two possible explanations: All VS across all servers across the world posses a hidden aptitude or skill set which inherently favours cooperation and teamwork which is entirely unique to them and suddenly vanishes the moment they change faction, or, their empire-specific equipment allows for a broadly unfair advantage over the NC & TR.

    Occam's razor dictates the latter is more likely to be true.

    This is a fallacy. Questionable cause, wherein the faction was once blatantly overpowered therefore they cannot be only slightly/moderately overpowered and must be balanced today, and that the only reason "better" players choose them and "worse" players don't is purely because of a preexisting notions of past history.

    And again, many players play more than one faction and do not suddenly become different people.

    Statistically, they are. As always many players will play more than one faction, will be attracted to various aesthetics and ideologies based on past experiences and social environments and personal preferences, may prefer one type of damage model over another based on previous unrelated games, may pick an initial faction based on information they have randomly received from other persons or media, or may just choose a random faction on a whim.

    When I first started I knew little about the game. I was initially planning on TR (because BLACK 'N RED!!) and then at the last second chose NC because I liked their insignia. I chose the NC for what can be pretty much summarized as a random choice based on a dichotomy of aesthetics without really knowing anything about the decision itself. The majority of players and people will not make "informed" decisions.

    Perception bias based on a preconceived notion from an initial position of ignorance. Inanimate objects and ideologies cannot have personalities, you're just projecting what you believe to be true onto a canvas and declaring what you see must be fact.

    If a player is looking for teamwork they're looking at the wrong game.

    A ~7% difference is much more significant across a three-way spit than it is between just two factions.

    In an idealized 33/33/33 a 7% reduction represents a 21% reduction in successful outcomes.

    Also statistically each faction loses the majority of the time overall, so it's not unfair to say the NC at least come close to "never winning." :p
    • Up x 3
  4. Eroulca

    No I say this for @Cobalt
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    Well, "Likely to be true" is not "true" (1), in between those two scenarios there are zillions of others.

    I admit the fact VS wins more than average (TR wins more too, whereas NC looses more than average) is difficult to explain. To be brutally honest, I do not know how to explain it and I have seen VS win many times, even under-popped. Maybe Vanu really exists at the end.

    However, I am not sure the weapons (in particular, Infantry weapons, because tanks and aircraft do not cap bases) are the key to victory.

    One day or another I will dump a lot of data from fisu to check the average effectiveness of ES weapons, category by category and produce some comparative EXCEL, and that would be some objective study.

    Subjectively, I can say I have characters in all factions (two per faction to be precise) and my KDRs are for mysterious reasons lowest for the VS characters, then TR and NC very close with NC coming on top. I have also an NSO character and his KDR is close to VS values.

    Now, I am an average Joe Doe player and my play-style does not change across factions. I have maybe 15.000 kills all together, not a lot of course and nothing compared to an hard-core vet, but they do represent some experience.

    How Occam would explain that?

    VS Infantry weapons are not (on average) better than their TR and NC counter-parties and some of them (ES specific Launcher ? Sidearms?) even suck big time.

    Footnote:
    (1) Unless you are Demigan and you have, as he once proclaimed, the gift of knowing the Truth. Hard to debate with such knowledge [*cough* assumption]... But I am digressing. Sorry for that :)
  6. adamts01

    You're a bit looney. I've never once even implied that an inanimate object, VS in this case, has any personality, just that over time it's attracted a certain type of individual. Look at the armed forces as an example. They all have pilots flying similar roles, but there's a drastic difference between the individuals who choose the Marines over the Air Force. And who knows why VS started to be like this. Maybe it was just a rumor that gained traction, and eventually became true. Maybe more winning when they were OP led to better certed characters, so that lent them a hand after balance. I do think fully upgraded implants help, and that's another snowball effect. You pride yourself on taking an unbiased look at things. Do you honestly think VS's equipment is OP enough to warrant their success rate? I think they hold edges in many ways, but not necessarily in more ways than the other factions. And what's so hard to believe about like minded players searching out their own kind? As for a random distribution of players... Maybe in the very beginning, but I'm sure most people Google which faction to join before picking one, and them you have people like me who play all three and find which faction does things right based on experience. After playing all three extensively I do think they're pretty well balanced, I agree with you that skill is pretty well distributed, so I don't think it's far fetched at all to believe players simply group up with similar players, and that VS has the majority of teamwork.
  7. LordKrelas

    Lets' look at the equipment first then.

    What does it take to Win Continents? Base Captures, right?
    Starting Infantry = New Players
    Bases are typically classed as using "Interior rooms" for their Capture points.

    Okay, lets see Infantry level;
    VS
    • Easy to use, Accurate Weapons
    • AOE Weapon without Nanites
    • Aux Weapons with Infinite Ammo
    • Plentiful Infinite-Ammo Weapons, enhancing Suppression capability
    • Starting Infantry, are CQC Equipped (Orion, Semi-Auto Snipers)
    • MAX with Machine-Gun Weaponry, Laser-AV
    • AV Launcher Type
    • AOE Heavy-Weapon Type
    TR
    • Bullet-house, high DPS Weapons
    • Plentiful CQC to Medium-Range Weapons
    • Starting Infantry, are CQC Equipped (Carv, Semi-Auto Snipers)
    • MAX with AOE Grenades, Chainguns, Rapid-Fire-Rockets
    • AA Launcher Type
    • Chaingun Heavy-Weapon Type
    NC
    • High-Damage Tier, Accuracy-Dependent
    • Plentiful Shotgun Weapon types
    • Starting Infantry, are Long-range Equipped (Gauss Saw, Bolt-Action Snipers)
    • MAX are Shotgun CQC Units, Laser-Guided Rockets
    • AI Launcher Type
    • Shotgun Heavy-Weapon Type
    So NC, has the perfect MAX for breaching into interiors & Holding choke-points up-close.
    VS has tools to invalidate cover, without a nanite-cost attached; TR's max costs nanites, and all three have nanite-based grenades.
    Two of the "winning" Factions have CQC starting equipment, and Semi-auto-snipers which are shorter-range Infiltrator gear.
    The NC, the "Losing" faction, have Long-range focused starting equipment, and Bolt-action snipers, for Long-range Infiltrators.
    Bolts are better, but only if you can land the shot; For novices, the distance is shorter, reducing their inaccuracy, and they have follow-shots easier with actual spare shots.
    NC's are Bolt-actions, which for Novices, let alone if they believe in starting at the "sniper" range will deal with the most of the bullet-drop mechanics, as it gets more noticeable at a greater distance - with a very delayed follow-up shot.

    For MAXes, NC does have a proper breaching tool.
    Without Nanites: NC also has their ES Heavy Weapon, a breaching tool.
    Prior to the MAX Nerf, of course.

    Launchers? NC is the only one focused on Infantry-countermeasure, at best.
    TR can nail air more casually, VS can nail vehicles more casually.
    This makes it easier to remove Vehicle (For VS), and Air (For TR) threats without invoking Nanites.
    NC's tool, isn't designed for the ranges either of those weapons operate at - leaving them to rely on Traditional tools.
    Against air, that would be typically AA Maxes, at 450 a pop, on the infantry scale.
    VS & TR, can boost their infantry Effectiveness against these threats, with their own MAX units.

    This means, when Vehicles come into Play, NC is dedicated to Anti-infantry tools, a majority being closer-range.
    This is reflected in their Heavy, Launcher, and MAX tool options.
    Of the three threats, Air, Vehicles & Infantry, NC is focused on the last one - The "Winning" Factions, are not.

    Infantry are critical to Capturing Points, and claiming Bases on the lattice.
    Given more than 90% of bases, do not have any vehicle-capture points, they are in fact required for nearly every base.
    Infantry-Level handling of Vehicle-threats, is quite powerful - regardless of how little, each single unit does, it adds up.

    Now Vehicles?
    These are Infantry-killing machines, across the board.


    Lets start with NS Ground Vehicles, for a standard Effectiveness for all three factions.

    Lighting Tank
    • Standard Cannon (I forgot the exact name of this): Dedicated AV Short-range Salvo
    • HEAT - Single-Shot AOE Focused AI
    • HESH - Single-Shot Moderate AI AOE, with AV Capabilities
    • AP - Single-Shot Anti-Armor Shell, smallest AOE
    • Skyguard - AA Flak Cannon
    Against infantry, these are relative, but can be powerful - Let alone with an Actual Dedicated AI weapon.

    Sunderer
    • Two Weapon Mountings
    • Includes All types, such as Dedicated Rapid-fire Machinegun "Kobalt"
    • Kobalt is capable of melting infantry at medium range rapidly.
    • AMS Capable, a Key critical asset to infantry play, as this is a Spawn-point.
    Harasser
    • 3-Man Vehicle
    • 1 Gunner, 1 Driver, 1 Ride-along Rear Passenger
    • Includes all Types, as well as ES weaponry options
    • TR ES: Vulcan (Anti-Armor Chaingun, Short-range), Marauder (AOE Grenade launcher), GateKeeper (AV Barrage weapon)
    • VS ES: PPA (AOE Anti-Infantry, Long-range, low velocity) , Saron (Precise AV, with burst-capacity), Ampelion (Precise AI weapon, with wave function)
    • NC ES: Boombox * Thor's hammer is a ***** to spell (AV Arc'ing Explosive, Short-range), Enforcer (Medium-Range AV) , Canister (Shotgun AI)
    These three, are the typically used-common pool, that are NS specifically, of these, only 1 can use ES weaponry.
    Lighting Tanks, are typical and can be powerful if used properly.
    Sunderers are Key vehicles, that are spawn-points for infantry, and are incredibly useful to vehicle engagements with support functions.
    Harassers are quick-vehicles, designed to 'harass' & cause chaos; Their ES options essentially focus as:
    • VS Anti-Infantry en-masse
    • TR Anti-Vehicle
    • NC Short-Range Scattering (Shotgun-patterns)
    VS is more Anti-infantry (with plentiful AOE), TR is more Anti-vehicle, and NC is leaned towards anti-vehicle but is short-ranged.
    This means, on this scale, already, VS has the most killing capacity towards Squishy infantry, the Key to Capturing the continent.
    TR is geared to kill Sunderers or enemy-vehicles, at varied distances, with an AOE grenade for Infantry.
    Sunderers are a Key to infantry capturing Bases, which wins the Continent.
    NC is geared for short-range engagement of Infantry or Vehicles - with no AOE, just Shotgun pellet RNG.
    This makes very poorly armed to handle groups of infantry to kill.


    Lets Sync that up to the Infantry gearing, for a total here, before we do this again After the MBTs.

    VS is geared for Anti-vehicle on the Infantry Scale
    VS is geared for Anti-Infantry on the Vehicle Scale.

    TR is geared for Anti-Air & light-Infantry-Suppression on the Infantry Scale.
    TR is geared for Anti-vehicle on the Vehicle Scale.

    NC is geared for Anti-infantry on the Infantry Scale.
    NC is geared for Close-range single-target, but slanted towards anti-vehicle, on the Vehicle Scale.

    So, VS troops are best at engaging vehicles, VS vehicles are quite good at killing enemy infantry en-masse.
    TR troops are geared to engage infantry, and have the best anti-air, their vehicles are geared at destroying enemy vehicles.
    NC Troops are specialized close-quarters anti-infantry, while their vehicles are single-target AV at close-range.

    TR has the good solutions against air, and vehicles.
    VS has the good solutions against vehicles, and infantry.
    NC has good solutions against infantry up-close, or single vehicles up-close.

    2 of these, have AOE weapons.
    2 of these have infantry effectiveness against vehicles or air.
    1 of these are specialized for close-quarters.
    3 of these are specialized against infantry in some aspect.
    The 2 of these are qualified in 3 of the 4 Summaries; These 2, are the "Winning" Factions, VS & TR.
    Of these two factions, 1 of these, has more infantry killing firepower; VS.
    VS is also the most dominant in the winning streak; Infantry are key to winning continents.

    --

    Now MBTs.

    VS, Magrider
    • Capable of evading Infantry-level Rockets, Via literal Strafing.
    • Ignores Terrain - and has the capacity to enter locations that No other tank can reach.
    • Stabilized Gun-Mounting
    • Limited to forward-firing-Arcs, requiring the rotation of the entire vehicle
    • Is noted for Infantry Killing power, with the primary main-cannon options.
    • Top-Guns include numerous specialized Anti-Infantry weapons.
    • Capable of moving in any direction without turning (Strafing)
    TR, Prowler
    • Capable of Firing-twice, for the highest DPS & damage if both shots land.
    • Capable of boosting Velocity by becoming locked to the surface.
    • Primary Ability "Lockdown", prior to Barrage Existing, required Tank to become immobile easily causing death.
    • Is noted for highest vehicle DPS
    • Top-Guns include numerous anti-vehicle vehicles.
    • Fastest in forward-direction travel
    • Can only move forward or backwards without turning.
    NC, Vanguard
    • Capable of activating a directional damage-resistance shield
    • Highest Damage-per Shot
    • Higher Health-Pool
    • Takes longest to repair vehicle, from burning-state.
    • Top-Guns include short-range weapons, for either AI or AV purposes.
    • Can only move forward or backwards without turning.
    The Magrider, is known as an Infantry-killer, being able to enter infantry-only areas in cases, while wielding highly effective AI weapons.
    It also capable of more easily avoiding C4 with the unpredictable motion it can achieved.
    On top, due to how it moves, it can physically avoid the low-velocity rockets used by enemy Infantry
    (VS has near-hitscan AV laser, while having the only tank able to move in any direction.. for some reason)
    The Top-Guns include long-range AV (Saron), to the large-radius PPA (AI AOE Weapon), or Amphelion (AI weapon)
    Making it a brutal infantry-killer, on capacity of this gear.


    The Prowler, is known as a DPS Monster, being able to unload brutal AV firepower at long-range.
    With the introduction of "Barrage", this DPS can also be rapidly front-loaded.
    The Top-Guns can reinforce this AV destruction, giving them incredible power against enemy vehicles.


    The Vanguard, is known as the "I-win-shield" Tank, dominating in one-vs-one battles in vehicles, and formally to dodge death via shield activation across the years.
    Having the highest damage per shot, but lowest DPS, this HP advantage with the shield, has given it a reputation as a Lethal tank in Tank to Tank battles, when engaged alone.
    Its top-guns, are a shotgun AI weapon (Canister) for close-range infantry killing, Enforcer (AV Weapon) that fires high-damage AV rounds at a decent range quite effectively, or the Boombox, an Arcing-fire AV weapon that fires in a burst at short-range.


    So, in short, to summarize;
    VS is specialized in killing infantry.
    TR is specialized in killing vehicles.
    NC is specialized for close-range.

    Now to sync up again.

    VS is geared for Anti-vehicle on the Infantry Scale
    VS is geared for Anti-Infantry on the Vehicle Scale.
    VS MBT is geared to engage infantry, and negating infantry.

    TR is geared for Anti-Air & light-Infantry-Suppression on the Infantry Scale.
    TR is geared for Anti-vehicle on the Vehicle Scale.
    TR MBT is geared to engage vehicles, and doing so rapidly.

    NC is geared for Anti-infantry on the Infantry Scale.
    NC is geared for Close-range single-target, but slanted towards anti-vehicle, on the Vehicle Scale.
    NC MBT is geared to duel MBTs, or close-range combat.

    VS is 2\3rds Infantry-Killing Firepower.
    TR is 2\3rds Vehicle-Killing Firepower.
    NC is fully Close-Range Firepower, with 2\3rds being slanted slightly to Vehicle-Killing.

    Basic Infantry, leaves TR & VS in CQC, and Medium-range snipers.
    NC is left in Long-range Basic Infantry, and Long-range snipers.
    TR Specialists are AI, or AA.
    VS Specialists are AI, or AV
    NC Specialists are AI, or Shotgun AI.

    To win a continent, is to capture bases; These are classified as interior-dominated for the Key positions (Capture-Points)

    VS, has the most balanced arsenal in options; Basic infantry (New Players) are geared for the Capture-points the game sends them at.
    VS Troops, include numerous Anti-vehicle weapons, Anti-infantry-weapons that are AOE as well.
    They need no nanites, to use AOE Weaponry - This is prior to NS Releasing a grenade-launcher. Which they can use too.
    VS Vehicles, are incredibly efficient at cleaning out large groups of infantry.
    VS Heavy-Weapon is an AOE type, that meshes with any force composition, and does not act as a cheaper-MAX weapon.
    VS MBT, is an Infantry killer, able to negate infantry-level AV, due to the rocket low velocity, and Good AI weapons on the tank.
    VS Harasser, is easily made into an Infantry killer, with the high AOE PPA - or Sarons for long-range AV.
    VS MAXes, are relatively universal units, with Modern changes Improving their accuracy with unstable-ammunitions for free.

    TR, has a relatively balanced Arsenal.
    TR Troops, are first given CQC Weaponry (new players), perfect for the environment, just like VS.
    TR Heavy Weapon, is a chaingun similar to those on the MAX - leaving them a little dry on options.
    TR Launchers, are however, an Anti-Air weapon that is highly effective, without any nanite-cost.
    TR MAXes can equip TR Grenade launchers.
    TR Vehicles are typically equipped with Anti-vehicle weapons, or AOE Grenade Launchers.
    TR MBTs are dedicated anti-vehicle platforms, with the capacity of a follow-up shot from their main cannons, making long-range sighting for engagements easier - and dealing with infantry.
    TR Harassers, are brutal at killing vehicles: Like Sunderers.


    NC has the most-short-ranged Arsenal outside of their Basic-Infantry (New players) whom are geared as long-range combatants.
    The exact environment, to capture a base, is partially inside shotgun range, but extends outside it often, but not long-range.
    NC's troops are mostly short-ranged with no AOE to speak of, past nanites - new-players are geared for the wrong environment.
    NC's Vehicles are all short-ranged, with no AOE weaponry to speak of.
    NC's Heavy Weapon tries to compete with their AI MAX's niche rather than enhance or cover another Niche for them.
    NC's Starter-gear is for the wrong environment, that they need the numbers in: They need CQC not Long-range.
    NC's MAXEs, are close-range combatants with shotguns, while AV weapons include a laser-guided missile.
    NC's MBT is set for dueling, and has short-range weaponry for Top-Guns; Without any AOE, just RNG shotgun pellets.
    NC's Harasser is short-ranged if using most NC gear.
    The Maps do not favor Short-range for vehicle-combat.


    Infantry are key to Winning.
    VS is the most geared to killing infantry en-masse at all ranges, with numerous Anti-vehicle options.
    Which means, they can handle enemy armor , or destroy Sunderers easier.
    AOE is available in every type, with & without Nanites - From Infantry, to vehicles, AOE weaponry is always available.

    TR is geared to engaging enemy-aircraft with their infantry, or enemy infantry.
    While their Armor is dedicated to removing the opposing Armor - meaning they can destroy sunderers easily.
    AOE is available, for Nanites.

    NC is geared for short-range combat across the board, with an hyper-focus on Anti-infantry at close-range.
    Their AV is limited, their AA is limited at the Infantry level.
    At the Vehicle Level, their AV is shorter-ranged, their AA is non-existent past standard options. Their AI is short-range and mostly single-target Shotgun RNG.
    Dedicated ES AOE Weaponry is absent.

    AOE weaponry is the most effective at killing infantry.
    2 Sides have more AOE, than NC.
    1 Side has the most AOE options.
    1 Side has the easiest time accessing their AOE options.
    1 Side has nearly no AOE weapons at all, past Common-Pool.
    Of these three sides, the one who claims the Crown for "Winning", is also the one with the most AOE Weapons: VS.

    VS has the most AOE Weaponry, perfect at killing infantry.
    VS has the most platforms geared to killing infantry.
    VS has easy access to anti-vehicle weapons as well as AOE weaponry.
    VS is the dominant Faction in Continent locks.

    Infantry are the key to winning Continents.
    I don't think VS are more skilled - their gear meshes damn well better.
    And they're equipped perfectly to kill opposing infantry, and with plentiful Anti-armor options on top of AOE weaponry.

    So, team-work? Yeah no.
    When you can kill multiple people quicker with AOE, and plentiful AV, so you can engage sunderers..
    You sorta win a lot more - TR is 2nd, and they have less AOE but more than NC, and have tons of AV power - also unlike NC.
    The two fields NC loses at, Both those Two compete in.
    The 1 field NC is in, VS is also in; And VS is winning the Continents, and the Alerts. Killing infantry.
    Just NC is short-ranged, mostly single-target; VS isn't.

    Maybe they win, since they the most options at killing what determines the Ownership of the lattice.
    As I don't see invalidating enemy Cover, on the same field as "I chaingun" or "I missile at 270 meters unless shot"
    Nor a massive supply of Weaponry, that I didn't cover: infinite ammo, means you need less of engineers.
    Your ability to hold & suppress positions rises quite a lot, when you don't care about ammunition, and can void reloading cycles.

    And you know what Captures bases? Being able to hold positions.
    • Up x 3
  8. Maxron306

    I'd say that VS tend to have some advantage at winning alerts, but I can't really name the reason that would not rely on variables like warpgate, experienced players, coordination and so on, because other factions also have their moments with that.

    Yet there's two things to say.
    1. https://www.ps2alerts.com/ has no info on alerts since july 2018. Either that or I am totally unable to find it.
    2. I sincerely hate magriders. I think that they might be the reason of imbalance, but I dont insist on this idea.

    I know some say it is "the lowest dps tank", "heavy harasser", "only competent people make it good".
    Yeah screw that.
    I never met a single magrider that was easy to kill, had problems with aiming or was not constantly peeking from the cover. Magrider is like a disco dancer on the fight scene, dodging and strafing every single **** you throw at it.

    -C4 can't be reliably planted while magrider is moving. And it is 99% of the time. In all directions at once.
    -Mines? I have to check the last time magrider used a road.
    -Mana-turret will let you make 1-2 shots before you get one from magrider's main cannon.
    -Dumbfire rocket launchers. Not a chance after 50 meters. And you'll find yourself out of this range pretty quick.
    -Lock-on rocket launchers. Aim. Wait till next patch. Aaand... It strafed behind the tree. Change position. Aim again. Wait till patch. Aaand... It used recharge. Repeat one more time. Aaand. It fled.
    -Archer anti-materiel rifle. It bites the dust but nothing more.
    -Other MBT or Lightning. Miss more shots than magrider does and you are dead. And you most likely will, depending on the distance. The higher the tougher, because predicting magrider's trajectory is like guessing dice rolls. You do it when its too late.

    Harassers, aircraft and whole infantry squads can successfully deal with magriders, but most of those require good cooperation. I am sorry, but I dont have much friends in this game to focus magrider every time I meet it.

    Overall magrider is extremely hard to solo fight and practically impossible not to let escape. And that is a great difference from other two MBTs. A bit lower DPS is greatly compensated by decent rate of fire and crazy agility.
    I assume I can be biased, but I do know what its like to drive it. Do you know what its like to fight against?

    Devs pls delete nerf this damned alien scrap.
  9. LaughingDead

    The real question is how can VS claim to be underpowered when they're winning more alerts than the other two factions cross servers?
    • Up x 2
  10. adamts01

    I tend to agree. Whether it's due to teamwork or equipment is debatable. But for the sake of competition they should nerf them in some way till alert wins are more balanced. It's too late for much with this dying game, but this would be an easy and deserved adjustment, like the NC Max nerf.
  11. Campagne

    I was being polite. It would be statistically impossible for the former to be true.

    In my opinion a very large contributor to the differences is in the NC's inferior vehicles. There's a lot more to base capturing that just standing on points and it wouldn't be fair to say they have no role in things. But for infantry weapons, skill mostly is the determining factor but some weapons are just better suited for the game than others. High damage weapons suffer more from damage negation or effective HP increases and bloom much more than other guns. The VS have some of the most accurate weapons in the game, with the poster-child Orion being an effective, easy to use, and abnormally accurate LMG favored by all.

    Stats for the stats god and data for his data throne!

    Occam would probably say "perception bias." Or maybe just "random chance," depending on how many factors ya' want to consider. As always anecdotal evidence is pretty close to useless, as quite frankly there are too many potential reasons why you might experience this trend. Age and playtime of each character, actual playstyles and equipment differences, and how you mesh with the weapons and aesthetics.

    The Lancer is better than people give it credit for and believe me the VS' sidearms are just fine.
    Sidearms are far from game-changers in the first place. Grasping at straws here!

    Loony? Loony would be accusing you of attacking my character instead of my argument! :p

    "Ideologies" is the key word here. Also:
    |
    Real-world armed forces is a terrible comparison. In PS2 everyone can go into any facet of combat they wish whereas in real life differing factors tend to draw differing personnel into what is most often a single permanent path. Socioeconomic factors especially influence who goes where in nations like 'Muricaland, where infantry units are predominately uneducated low-income men. (Marines are stereotypically dumb as **** and eat all their crayons in place of MREs. The Vietnam war saw majoritarily young African-American men in combat.)

    As above I think some weapon traits are just better than others. Easy to use accurate guns perform better in all players' hands and the VS have high-mid RoF weapons almost exclusively. That's really that, punishing weapons with terrible accuracy don't do well in PS2 and the VS have few of these.

    Like-minded players do seek each other out. Outfits and squads/platoons exist for all factions, not just the VS.

    The majority of people will just never ever make informed decisions if they don't feel they have something to lose. Medical and social/psychological trials and experiments for example have to ensure participants understand what will happen and informed consent shoots down a large number of potential experiments in the planning phase. This is because if informed consent was not enforced no one would ever ask questions about if they really have to do something, or if they are in fact allowed to leave the study at any time. This is a videogame, at most if someone looks up the factions they'll see the equivalent of a Noot or Prudentia or Exileant thread claiming faction X is OP because of Y and just assume it to be true. There is little to no reason to assume anyone would care about doing research instead of just playing the actual game like they wanted to in the first place. Random distribution.

    How can a person honestly say skill is normally distributed in a population but also say the capacity for teamwork in the exact same population is skewed? This is just contradictory.
    • Up x 1
  12. Demigan

    I know this one. You basically say it yourself: your playstyle doesnt change. Playstyle is massively important to how much KD you get, and apparently while overall the VS ES arsenal is superior it does not benefit everyone.

    And perhaps your playstyle IS different. Have you looked at the % of time on each class and vehicle for example? Or when you joined each faction? Because joining the VS just as the TR Harasser is found to be OP and overused is a lot more harmful for your overall KD than joining the TR just after the ZOE nerf for example.
    • Up x 1
  13. Peebuddy

    Looking at my stats over 6 years of playing this game I'm about 45%VS/ 55%NC in terms of ratio, with a couple percentages to TKs( They all got in my way I swear!). The favoritism is there but I'm not sure why, sure the magriders are annoying but both sides had their annoyances throughout the years.

    Thought there have been bumps throughout the years where you just flat out couldn't fight the Vs, Nc rarely had those moments.

    -One hit infantry kill Saurons
    -Magriders that didn't lose traction and would climb mountains
    -The ZoE max that wasn't fixed for half a friggin year!
    -No bullet drop on any of their laser weapons
    -The Orion .75 ADS fiasco
    -Being impossible to see at night (more so than they are now)
    -and finally the terror of the PPA when it was introduced

    Vs just has scandal after scandal throughout the years, people probably just naturally gravitated toward them over time and in a game like planetside 2 it's all just a numbers game.

    He with the mostust withuth the most often
    • Up x 1
  14. BamaRage

    VS on emerald currently have better cooperation and better use of assets. While this cannot be said of TR and NC.
  15. adamts01

    Having spent a good chunk of my life in the Marines, with family and friends on the other branches, I can say the services absolutely draw different personalities. The different branches don't have personalities, but they absolutely attract different types of individuals.

    Other examples are everywhere. I was born and raised in Texas, and spent much of my adult life in California after being stationed there. At this point in time, it's safe to say genetic behavioral traits are pretty well distributed between those two states, and while neither state has a personality, they attract drastically different types of people. Not only that, but they breed drastically different types of people.

    Say you're raised by a family of farmers. You'll likely grow up taking care of yourself, and raise your kids to take care of themselves. Now say you're raised in a socialist state. You'll likely grow up dependent, and raise dependent kids. Sure, there are self reliant people in socialist states, and freeloaders in rural areas, just like there are coordinated individuals on NC and carefree players on VS. But these factions do have general characteristics. You're looking at this from a purely mathematical angle, and completely ignoring the social aspect. I'm not saying VS players happened to be placed there. You're right, that's statistically impossible. I'm saying teamwork oriented players either migrated there or were conditioned by their environment. We all agree that squads and outfits have their "personalities", so why is it such a stretch that factions might have "personalities" of their own?
    • Up x 2
  16. DarkStarAnubis

    I am a pure infantry player (no vehicles, no Max). All my characters are within 1-3 BR of difference as I tend to play in a kind of round robin fashion and started them at the same time except for the NSO one.

    I believe (as I wrote I have to do some research on dasantfall to cross-check) that VS weapons, while being slightly easier to use in terms of Bloom/Recoil are less powerful in terms of DPS/DPM. I may be wrong but every time I switch faction I have the sensation that VS weapons lack that little amount of DMG/RoF that often makes the difference between a kill and an assist/draw/being killed.

    So with an equally good (as in: good enough) Bloom and Recoil Management, same accessories choice (x2, grip), equipment (Nano weave), choice of basic implants, same approach (99% ADS engagements)... more powerful weapons reward more.

    The NSO character I have has higher SPM (usually a mark of higher experience/awareness/knowledge) than the others but KDR very close to the VS values. And NS weapons are known for being more controllable and rather precise but weaker in terms of raw damage (NS-11A/C, Tanto, NS-15M2).
    • Up x 1
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    On a completely different aspect, albeit related: has anyone looked at Medics "effectiveness" (rezzing/healing numbers) across factions?

    A sign of better teamwork and cohesion could be Medics being more effective in keeping combatants alive.
  18. OgreMarkX


    Spot on Adamts01. Good observation.

    This is true of every aspect of life. It's also why central planners always fail and free marketers always win. Central planners deny human nature exists, free marketers factor human nature in.

    In Planetside 2, thanks in large part to the last few years of a bad designer...who is 100% a central planner type...VS has become the easier faction to play, therefore, those who's primary need is to "beat" other players...play VS. As someone above pointed out, VS is dominant in infantry play, which is the key ingredient to alert wins due to base caps being almost always INDOORS.

    Just a quick situation to show balance issues: Who would win:

    1. A team of Heavy Assaults able to cover all entrances to a point cap with an AOE damage, high ammo capacity machine gun, WHILE STILL BEING IN COVER... (VS, Lasher)

    or

    2. A team of Heavy Assaults firing a gun that has a spin up, has no AOE, had a cone of fire that gets worse as it fires, and requires the shooter to FULLY EXPOSE HIMSELF... (TR, Minigun)

    Gee I dunno, that's a hard one...
    • Up x 1
  19. Campagne

    I sorry but this whole thing is just perception bias. You are more likely to seek out individuals with whom are are able to relate and connect to. Joining the marines created a connection for you and your fellow marines and in turn forms a sort of "us and them" dichotomy where everyone in your facet is alike and everyone else is different.

    Of course different things tend to attract different ratios of different types of people, but as populations grow the difference shrink. This is especially so with the "kool-aid culture" of the US military and the average citizen's opinion on the military, (which I say as a non-American for the record), as well as the dramatically large number of individuals within the military itself.

    The population is very large and is as close to normally distributed as is reasonably possible. Only very strong factors such as low-income people essentially forced to sign up for the draft and to consign for a chance at a decent future, whether that may be a military career or for a chance to get an education, can have a significant impact on the population.

    Genetic behavioral traits, oh boy don't even get me started on that. :p Any individual raised from birth will adopt the behaviors of his or her parents and peers with cultural and societal influences. (Provided they are mentally capable of advanced socialization with normal healthy individuals anyway.) Furthermore the US is a cultural melting pot and will draw people of all cultures and ethnicities. As for state-to-state, local cultures such as foreign hotspots such as Chinatowns or Little Italies as well as factors such as local governments, institutions and attractions, as well as natural resources and work enterprises like oil and gas or fishing or mineral deposits or whatever can influence who the people are and how they act in their society.

    PS2 is a video game and has none of this. All players are given the discretion to adopt a new faction or multiple factions regardless of who they are or what they believe. They have a random aptitude to any, multiple, or no faction.

    You're not saying VS players just happened to be placed there, you're saying VS players are a special breed containing a behavioral trait not exhibited in other members of the general PS2 population. The random chance that all or at least a very significant majority of these players would gravitate towards the VS regardless of equipment differences is astronomical. Clearly even if this was the case there would have to be an external draw attracting these players to the VS exclusively. It is clearly not the case that the VS have substantially more skilled or team-oriented players than the other two factions.

    I don't agree that squads or outfits have "personality." Again, thoughts, objects, and ideas don't have personalities. They have associations and are completely subjective and relative to the viewer.

    Factions don't have personalities because they are simply a team to play as. They have no defining features outside of ES equipment and posses no goals or long-term objectives nor do they truly represent real-world ideologies. Take the NC's "freedom" mantra. Freedom can mean many things and even in the most simplistic political meaning it can still be viewed as a different concept by different people. Freedom from what? From whom? Is it the Scottish fighting for freedom against the English? Native Americans fighting for their old ways of life against invading Europeans? Prisoners fighting to escape captivity? Religious minorities fleeing oppression looking for asylum in a foreign nation? Closeted homosexuals and transsexuals or religious individuals desiring the freedom to express their truest selves and their truest beliefs without fear of rejection and/or persecution?

    No. The NC are "rebels" fighting for "freedom." That doesn't matter when playing the game. We are not fighting for freedom or order or control or for our futures, we're playing a game and view it as such. Factions directly translate to unique equipment. You're looking for something to confirm your belief without reason. Nothing about the purple and cyan space cultists says "teamwork."
  20. adamts01


    You admitted squads and outfits are where players with certain tendencies group up. So yes, this silly video game is a perfect social experiment. It's not a stretch at all that players would similarly group up according to faction tendencies. You argue that VS wins more because their equipment is OP. But if you look at server smash results, VS doesn't dominate there. I admit VS has some strengths the other factions don't, but I also think the majority of their wins come from simply playing the objectives. Case and point is how VS dominated continents when Hives were meta. They didn't simply win at a higher ratio than other factions, they did what it took to absolutely decimate the competition. I can go hours without finding an NC or TR squad talking, but at any time of the day I can find a group using coms on VS. That's not perception bias, that's me spending years trying to find folks to group up with. People on VS simply work together on a level TR and NC don't. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

    And no, VS isn't a special breed. You're not paying attention. They migrated to that faction, or simply adopted that play style by being brought up by other team oriented players. I don't know how much more clear I can state that.

    As far as the military goes... You couldn't be more off. Maybe someone else could chime in that's ever stepped foot on both an Air Force base and a Marine Corps base? Night and day difference in the individuals. At least in this country. Maybe things are different where you're from. As an example, we had an E5 from the Navy join us in one of my schools. We were all E2s and E3s at the time, and to put that in to perspective Sergeants we gods for all intents and purposes. We harassed this poor petty officer constantly till he was broken. By the end of that 3 month course he was tough as nails. When he got back to his command he was instantly promoted when they saw his new ability to take charge, and also immediately sent to anger management. Plenty of that behavior was programmed through training, but plenty of it existed existed before hand and was what drew us all to that branch. And yes, there's an almost universal socioeconomic relation to who joins the military, as was the case with myself, but of that subset there's a clear divergence of where the aggressive alphas choose to go.
    • Up x 1