New Gamer Experience

sorry english language isn't native for me so i'm not sure that i understand you clearly.

seems like dead behind wall from lag when you go out from fire but damage was done 0.1 seconds ago and you are dead behind wall is reproducible by all players. i haven't seen users in PS2 that can do headshot "without ever having the bullet cross someone's path" or maybe didn't notice before bcoz i play for fun and for me no matter why i die.

i've never adapt files in FPS because i work with nonFPS games but i know that hitboxes in FPS is weak point due to technical specific of FPS games. this is why most FPS devs encode client resources but all encoding is temporary for gays who working on decoding them. there is no panacea because hitboxes on client side. if you wanna game without cheats then turn off your PC =)

Are you really comparing frame rate to hits?

Each frame is one moment in time, an infinitely small moment in time. between each frame something happens as well. Let's just call them frame0, frame1 and frame2.

At frame0 nothing has happened yet.
At frame1 something has happened.
At frame2 we might already see the conclusion of what started in the previous frames.

Between each frame there is a 0,033 second time period in which things can happen. So when we see something happen at frame1, then we know that something must have happened in the 0,033 seconds of frame0 and frame1. We don't know exactly when during this time period it happened, but we know it happened. We know that unless something is very wrong, the interpolation would not begin multiple frames after the animation (otherwise, what would the clients player-models be based on?)

Now the interpolation and the animation will only begin after the input has been given. We know the input has been given inbetween frame0 and frame1. So we also know that everything that could result from any shot has to happen in the space of time of frame0 and frame1.
If the player does not aim at the target in the time between frame0 and frame1, then the shot will fly straight and the only option is for the target to walk through the bullets traveling path as the interpolation says "now the bullet is traveling between this point and that point", which means you require distance and time to pull it off. If that distance and time isn't there, for example because the fight takes place at distances of less than 16,66m (in 0,033 seconds the SASR bullet travels this distance) then there is only a single frame for the opponent to throw himself in the bullet path, but at a non-ADS strafing speed of 3,89m/s (according to Iridar's site) you would cross 0,13m in that time so you would have to aim a maximum of that distance away from the target upon firing.

And again, if it were possible to reproduce his moves then it would be OK. But I can't reproduce them, I haven't seen other average players who try to pull off similar feats reproduce them even in events that look almost perfectly similar frame for frame. How can he pull off things that only he can reproduce accurately and consistently if no one else can?

Planetside 2 uses a clientside system. This means that if you can hit someone on your screen, you actually hit them.

Planetside 2 also hosts hundreds of players on a single map, and it can only do so because of the latency system. So if you jump behind a piece of cover, it takes a moment before your enemy sees you jump behind that piece of cover. Since it uses clientside this means that your opponent can effectively kill you when you are behind cover... On your screen. But on his screen you are completely visible and hittable.

And that's the key here: I'm not looking from my perspective, I'm looking at the frames that he himself made, the gameplay that he posts, the clientside hit detection that is the exact same for me and him and everyone. If he can pull off 3 hits on-screen with a single shot, then so should I be able to do that. If he can hit someone without that person ever crossing either his crosshair or any potential bullet path no matter at what point he shot, then I should be able to hit in the same way if I dragshot (hint, I've never been able to reproduce it even with shots that were near enough identical).

The problem here is that despite all his moves being impossible to reproduce and him hitting targets that never even crossed his bullets path people protect him. Why do they protect him? I have no idea. When I first brought it up I had to tiptoe around the issue asking him to explain how it was possible. Best-case scenario he wasn't cheating but 2/3rd of his shots should have been misses but a background bug when dragshooting allowed him to gain more hits, which would just mean he's actually not half as good (literally!) as he should be and the bug should be fixed. Worst case scenario is that he was just abusing cheats and mods to the game to achieve things.
Neither scenario is appealing. But it's kinda telling that he and the "dragshot community" disappeared overnight for a long while when the head hitbox exploits were at least temporarily put to a stop...

what is clientside for you? any MMO use some functional clientside. latency? latency system exist everywhere even in processor of your old mobile phone. lags in such huge MMOFPS will be because its seamless world and its first person shooter. fireball in WOW with 5 seconds cooldown its one packet to server per 5 seconds. in PS2 i guess this is banch packets for all bullets per milliseconds. tremendous difference. in one FPS i've seen splitted packets when server get one packet with data from different bullets.


i think only devs can tell what functional is clientside what not and technically could be after server get shoot packet from client there could be checks is there line of sight between opponents or something else checks. i mean as a MMO dev i can tell you exactly that exist couple technical ways to do every functional and it makes no sense guessing because only devs know how its work exactly.

can you give exact time on video where he "hitting targets that never even crossed his bullets"

We actually know full well that PS2 works on a clientside system. I'm not guessing, I know.
Clientside means that if the client says you hit, you hit. In other games the server will often check this as well, if not do the actual calculations to see if you score a hit. This makes it harder to cheat because if you feed the client "I hit everyone on screen in the head" you still have to convince the server that this is the case as well, as opposed to PS2 where if you convince the client "I hit everyone on screen in the head" then yes it'll be accepted by the server. So we already know that your idea of "what if the server checks LOS of the client" is wrong. It doesn't.
This clientside is necessary however because of the latency system (explained below). Because you see what your opponent did a (fraction of a) second ago, you would have to shoot at the empty space in front of him to shoot him where the server is going to think he his based on the information it received. That's not a fun system where hits are only registered based on shooting the air, and the distance how far you have to shoot in front of an opponent increases and decreases based on their current connection quality!

There's simple latency and the latency system. The devs of PS2 knew that adding more players is an exponential problem that needs to be solved. To solve it they decided for the latency system, which intentionally delays all actions that come in and sends it away in a more orderly and easier managed package meaning that the client has to guess more than with other games where your opponent is going and what he is doing in the time it doesn't get package updates. This is why PS2 has this unique system where you can fire at an opponent and they seem to magically turn around and blow you away in one single moment: Inbetween receiving a packet your opponent was already turning and shooting at you, but you didn't see it yet as your client couldn't predict that movement yet. This problem is magnified when there's packet loss, making it sometimes look that an enemy just instantly turns and kills you.
This also includes the "shot behind cover" situation. Since the game purposely delays all your actions on-screen it takes that delay before you jump into cover on your opponents screen. In reverse it also takes that time before you see your opponent when he jumps out of cover again.

Dude I have explained to you that stating:

Is wrong because sampling at 30 FPS you will be able to see correctly one every three hits on average, that is 33.3% (1000/30). The other two hits are either not visualized or visualized in a wrong frame, whatever PS2 is coded to do in those cases.

So nitpicking a video, frame after frame to say "sight was not aligned" - "hit not visible" - "suspicious skills" - ... is a waste of time. What you see on video and what happened are rather different things.

According to rumors (PS2 Developers tend to avoid this forum) this is the case of PS2, a individual TCP packet per bullet is not guaranteed.

That is one of the [many] reasons why the game-play experience is so frustrating for new players: 2-3 headshots from a skilled player means insta-death for the newbie without ever understanding what happened because the cumulative "accumulating bullets delay"+"travel packet latency" (attacker PC --> server --> defender PC) may be comparable to 250 ms, which is a typical reaction time, so the new player is dead before reacting.

Commander Cyrious explained this in one of his videos:

he is also against head-shots (too much damage) but it is too late to change things now.

Planetside is not dying, it’s a 16 year old game, the problem is, no gaming company has made anything like this, until that happens, PS will always have a niche, there are no competitors. This version is 6 years old in the 2nd version and is still going strong.

Tell me what other better games there are with this many players online and I’ll listen?

If there were, they’d be out of business.

Seriously what is so hard about the following concept:

At frame0 nothing has happened.
You press the fire button.
At frame1 you see the results of your button press: A shot.
Even if you assume that there are frames inbetween because Youtube goes 30FPS instead of the 60+ of the game, the shot has to have happened inbetween that time. This also means that inbetween that time, your opponent has to have crossed your crosshair (or your opponent needs to have the time to walk through the bullet path). If your opponent doesn't cross the crosshair inbetween the frame where nothing happens and the frame where something happens, then the shot can't hit as no single bullet path at no single point in time would be able to connect with the target.
Since we are talking about a single-shot weapon and not an automatic we know that no shots are suddenly not shown correctly. This is especially true when you compare it to say a video I made or some other player: If you cross your opponent between frames then you can hit him if the animation happens around that time. If you don't cross your opponent or have already crossed him a frame before, the shot is always 100% of the time a miss.

Also since you seem to forget, PS2 has this nice little thing where your bullets can only be fired on a frame. This is why high ROF weapons are limited in their ROF if your frame rate is low. http://iridar.net/rate-of-fire-vs-framerate/
So since bullets can only be fired on a frame, they can't really disappear on you anymore can they?

Are you dense or purpose?
I am talking about seeing hits not shots and I have explained to you that it is pointless to look for hits and analyze frames because you will see on average one hit every three.

So I point out that I'm looking for when a SHOT happens and if at no point the shot lines up with the target you cant hit.

Your response is that frame analysis for HITS, not SHOTS, is pointless. Then proclaim I'm dense because you talk about something else than what I'm doing?

Also think of what you are saying:
While VISUALLY the shots miss, the game's calculations make the shot a hit. If what you say is true then these players have learned to VISUALLY MISS ON PURPOSE for 2/3rd of their hits to still get a hit through the games calculations.
Does that really sound plausible to you? At all?

On top of that, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO REPRODUCE for "normal" players even though the games calculations should allow it for EVERYONE.

Translation: "While the frame may or not may show the exact moment in which the weapon fire" since the frame takes time to be built and rendered (at 100 FPS it takes 20ms, at 20 FPS it takes 50 ms).

Translation: The game calculation, through interpolation of what happens between frames, takes the decision of assigning a hit.

Translation: That player (he is only one, not "these") is drag shooting and firing before being aligned. It is explained where the video demonstrates: http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/gunplay-guide/#Drag_Shots. Come on Demigan, don't be ridiculous. You quote Iridar yet you believe he is posting videos of hackers?

But of course, having experienced it in the first place. As I described in the first message: I shot, saw a miss, the target move, then head-shot HUD animation, then the target dying in another place. So much for visual consistency...

Exactly! So we know that in the time between the last frame and the frame build up afterwards the action was taken, otherwise the frame would never have build itself with the visual animation.

Yes! And because we know that the shot has to happen between Frame0 and Frame1, it has to pass over the target in the meantime for a hit.
If it does not pass over the target inbetween those frames, it cannot score a hit.

I believe that Iridar did not look at it frame by frame and discover the discrepancies between when the shot is fired and when the crosshair crosses the target (and again, sometimes the crosshair never crosses the target and the target never crosses any potential bullet path and still dies to a headshot! We are talking a bulletpath that at best comes to a bodylength of the target, not pixels, entire bodylengths!).

And yes, during the time I analysed his frames there was a group of players doing it. That is why I use "these".

Again, this is called "lag", it's probably a term you've heard before. Also since your shot started while on the target's head we now that there are bulletpaths that could connect to the body and therefore score a hit. And again, this does not have to be the case for these players. And once more: Why is it impossible to reproduce, except for one situation that you can name for a long-range shot that is obviously about lag rather than the game's calculations?

You do not know. You are assuming.
The shot could have taken before the frame (while the frame was being built and rendered) but not in time to display it in the frame, or the frame has been created but not displayed due to difference between the frame rate and the screen refresh rate, or the frame has been created and displayed but not captured by the recording software, or the frame has been created, displayed and captured but Youtube has reduced the FPS during the upload process.

Again you do not know. You are assuming.
Did you checked that with Iridar? I have had conversations with him many times and he is a very scrupulous, dedicated and precise individual. He tests things in depth. When he had made mistakes he clearly explained where and how he made them.

You confuse knowledge with assumptions and hypothesis. Did you notice that?

You can learn a lot by assuming.

If I have two particles start at one point, I have a straight line but prevent me from seeing any part of the race except start and finish, and despite starting simultaneously one particle arrives earlier than I can assume that this particle was faster than the other.

Lets assume the shot is taken at frame0. At frame1 it is displayed. If the crosshair passes over the target at frame2 then there can be only one outcome: a miss.
If despite this there is a hit, then we call this in technical terms a "cheat". This becomes doubly so in the case of using youtube frames. We know that at least 30 frames are lost so lets look at it again:

At frame0 the shot happens, but is too late to be rendered.
At frame0.1, the missing frame on youtube, the shot is first visible.
At frame1 it is visible on youtube frames.
At frame1.1, another missing frame, we should see the animation continue, and perhaps the crosshair already passes over the target.
At frame2 we see the crosshair to have passed over the target.

No matter where you put the action, as long as it happens at frame0, frame0.1 or frame1 it is 100% impossible for the shot to become a hit if only on frame1.1 and frame2 the crosshair can pass over the target.

I use simple logic to come to a conclusion.

Look, just imagine that it is real life for a second but caught on a 60FPS camera. And instead of a weapon we have a laserpointer. You have 3 frames.
Frame0 is in the left of the target.
Frame1 is on the left of the target.
Frame2 is on the right of the target.

Between which frames did the laserpointer hit the target?
And if you saw the aftereffects of a stronger laserpulse at frame1, can the pulse have hit the target?

This is the entire problem. This is a problem that you might find on elementary school. Can you really not solve it?

Nope. I begin to think there is some language barrier so I will stop here.

Learning refers to a process of acquiring knowledge by doing a number of things, whereas assuming is just something you think "Hmm, It is like that". You do not create any knowledge by making assumptions. Assumptions are what you believe is true. But that is not enough to make them true.

You may assume there are other living beings in the Universe, or assume they are looking at your messages posted here and even assume they like what you write. But those are assumptions. You have learned nothing about those other living beings. There is no knowledge, there is no gain in those assumptions.

Have a look, it could help:
https://www.criticalthinking.org/pa...ishing-between-inferences-and-assumptions/484

This is a serious hijack, but...

Imagine a crosshair catching up to a target. A shot is fired behind the target, the hit is seen missing, the crosshair is still catching up, then the target dies before the crosshair even catches up to the target. None of those missing frames hold any secrets, and nothing going on in the processor can exain a legitimate hit when the crosshair never caught up to the target.

Seeing a miss as a crosshair drags across a target and result g in a kill can be cometely legitimate. Totally different scenario.

That's the short answer Demigan is trying to explain.

Go to iridar.net and read/watch the entire infantry tutorial. Basically, body shots don't matter. You'll suck until you can consistently land headshots. Pick an accurate gun and burst fire.

I forgot this part, shooting friends and enemies because I was not able to identify who is what. Then waiting around 2 secs for any sign that identify the person I was targeting, and 99% of the time, getting killed because it was an enemy.

Also, long walks around bases figuring out how to get inside. This can be tough in Biolabs when you are a noob. I still don´t understand some Hossin bases.
Long walks from one base to another, just to get killed by the first enemy after a 6min walk. At this point I used to choose the light assault to be able to go over mountains and walls.

Do we have mods in this forum? ppl got widely off topic