What's a good op NC max build?

First off are they worth my time? NC max? I'm quite new to the game still but going to dump a load of certs into a max build.. NC never uses maxes and they seem pretty bad but why?

What's a good if any op NC max build? I have around 2.5k to dump into a max and I probably won't get anything goood out of it but in time I'll add more certs to it to make it stronger.

In b4 huge walls salt and tears. I don't play max much anymore, but from what I can tell, your best bet is to get dual Gordons. Back when I used maxes, I would mainly pull it in a biolab fight. NC maxes are in a rough spot, given that their shotguns have lower overall dps then the other faction's maxes equivalents, and only a fraction of it's overall usability. There are threads explaining both sides if you are interested.

Everytime I asked in game I would get hit with " just buy any shotguns and hope not to die" I tested them out in VR and they seem pretty weak. I never see any Max's for NC. And if I do it's a lower level just seeing what it's all about.

NC doesn't have much going for it apart from the guns but that's for a different topic. Fights dont happen very often on Ceres but every fraction has spammed max this new patch so I wanted in. Plus we get a whole new max alert for free max.

The goal of the alert is to kill maxes. Ironically, it appears that the NC are winning simply because not very many people pull them. Might want to consider getting the archer for the engineer.

One thing people always seem to ignore is the Falcon MAX.

Falcons are AV weapons for short to mid range, officially they have an anti-MAX role which when dual wielding they are moderately effective at. Firing one Falcon with a shotgun in the other is extremely uncomfortable as most NC MAX weapons are semi-auto so you have to constantly check to see if you are reloaded and can fire so I wouldnt recommend it.
But if you have the support you can use dual Falcons to snipe infantry. They deal 300 direct and 200 indirect per shot, so if both shots hit you can OHK infantry that doesnt wear Flak armor or auxilliary shield. Often your targets will get damaged as you fire guaranteeing a OHK if you manage to land both shots simultaneously. Since you need to reload after each shot and can kill in a single volley you expose yourself less than with other weapons. Unlike shotguns that are quite literally hit&miss how effective they are these reward skill and can be a threat to be reckoned with.

Otherwise I dont think there is any way to make an OP NC MAX. You can at best keep up with the DPS of the other factions but still sacrifice range and accuracy for nothing that you would expect from a shotgun (and you also dont get unexpected bonuses).

Ok thanks for the this ^

On ceres you don't see many max players.. NC brings them out but they are not upgraded.. vs and TR have upgraded maxes and can be very hard to kill with good level 100 players using them. I don't see that many max players on Nc that are good and most go in without support or just die before going in.

Pretty much this. Otherwise I recommend the HA with the Jackhammer, better gun and it doesn't cost resources to use.

NC Maxes were obscenely OP for years. They've finally been brought more in line. I still do fine with my Hacksaws. You match other maxes in dps up close, so use your shield to get within that range, and put your shield back up as you reload. You'll draw a ton of fire while your shield is up while friendlies get in free hits. Most enemy Maxes will dump bullets in to your shield, so you can wait to return fire while they reload, then put your shield back up while you reload. It used to be the case that you could easily take on 2 TR or VS Maxes at once, and that's what NC was used to. But the fact is that if you engage on your terms indoors, there's no reason you should lose with that shield. I'd recommend going with the highest dps shotguns you can, and maxing out your shield asap. I haven't tried any AV NC Max weapons, but falcons may work well with the shield. I'll have to check that out in VR, which is where you should try all the guns. I'd stay clear of gorgon though, as their big magazines don't mesh at all with NC's special ability.

They were exceedingly effective yes -- But brought in line? They have no positive benefit to their weapons.
None, at bloody all.

DPS Up-close, at 5-10 meters, with a frontal shield; So Only viable against opponents that are ahead only - so that's advancing toward the enemy, or praying they have no LOS & no Archers, explosives, or alternate paths -- Or aren't Maxes.

Shield has a delay on putting up, and you will be constantly reloading.
Your opponent will not be reloading constantly: it will be constant DPS, from the moment it fires at a further range, to the closest range -- Which means it will unloading equal or superior DPS during the return-fire, the engagement opening, and the shield pull-up, While also being more effective in general usage against infantry foes, of which Can't as casually take pot-shots at range.

If only combat allowed NC to always control the engagement.. which it doesn't.
Open-fields, One MAX is useless.
Long Corridors, One MAX is useless for 90% of the corridor; And has no sustain when it gets there.
At Doorways, NC dominated; Now, it can barely, and will die to the Enemy Max casually, at all ranges.

You mean the Shield, where the Shotgun with the longest reload period, relies on to close distances (or try), and for the Massive reload \ unarmed exposure?
Killing power, the MAX isn't making up for it in the Shield.
Making them equal in DPS, in the single range they had, Did Not bring them in-line.
They were over-effective yes, in the single range they had; Now however, they fall behind in every field.
They went from Over-preforming in CQC & losing everywhere else, to Losing in every Field.

It is not brought in line, to go from the Top in one field, to the Bottom of the barrel in all fields.
Imagine if the VS Saron went from over-performing (not saying it does), at Long-engagement, and was called "in-line", when it lost at Long-range, short-range, medium-range after an change: IE "adjusted".
That would take a weapon from Over-performing to Under-performing.

Shotguns are specialized-weapons only able to operate CQC, they are range-compressed as hell; And do not operate past it.
SMGs are CQC weapons that can function to a degree past their optimal range.
If an SMG has equal DPS, better magazine size, better reload at the same range as the shotgun, it also will beat it at every range.
This means, if they were equal in short-range in DPS, but the SMG wins in every other stat, the SMG is strictly superior.
Of which, for that 2nd example; Not even a Shield to reach optimal range, and to protect during reloads will help.
As the opponent will be dealing equal or better damage each time: and if they can open fire without return-fire.. it slants hard in favor of the longer-range weapon.

Like, How much further in-line does NC need to be?
CQC Dedicated MAX, with equal CQC performance to General MAX that can do any range.
In which case; Why is the CQC MAX existing? As it's out-classed or equaled at CQC, but also beaten at every other range raw.

Gorgons, only gorgons.

yes they are weaker than standard max AI, the dps is slightly worse than the tickle-guns available to NC,
but atleast you get some range potential. (and sustained fire close to that of TR and VS)
most of the NC max AI suffer a hilarious 60% damage drop off by 20 freaking meters, combined with the pellet spread, don't even bother trying to use those things outside of ranges were you might aswell max punch...

if you're gonna have weak AI you might aswell have weak AI that has range, sustain and can tickle vehicles too.
(also gorgons are actually GOOD in max fights)
so rather than having similar cqc damage to TR and VS, with far less range and sustain. (using NC max shotguns)
you get a bit less dps all round, but with similar range and slightly less sustain. (and good max v max potential.)

demi has a good point with falcons, but the single shot reload makes them very risky,
if you miss a c4 fairy with your first double shot then you're dead.
i do run double falcons occasionally when i feel like sitting at the back line spamming away at a choke point.
back in 2013 when they were more like grenade launchers i used to run them exclusively!


tl;dr
generally i consider gorgons to be the only current AI option for NC max. (weak as they are.)
if you're gonna have weak damage, take weak damage and range+sustained fire similar to TR and VS.

That shield is still beautiful. And it perfectly fits a close range max which dumps its mags and frequently reloads. Like everyone else who's affected by balance passes, adapt and figure out a niche.

If anything needs to happen, IF, then it's TR and VS getting a slight nerf to their Maxes. They've all been a stain on this game long enough. They're all the ultimate low skill crutch.

That Shield, while useful, matters little if the unit is barely able to kill; IE it just slows the death that can't be avoided at all.
The MAX would be suicide from spawning, if it didn't have the shield - But it can't save the unit; It doesn't have the power.
What Niche? You mean the same one it only had to it, except now it's stomped by the enemy for the same price?
Whom counters the NC MAX, is the VS & TR MAX, which can also do what the NC MAX did, but also more.
There is no Niche, where a Shotgun can go, past Where it already is: and it is royally screwed there, it can go no where.

Usually, when a Balance pass happens, and it bats something to the floor, it isn't an entire class.
When ZOE was hit, it didn't break their ability to kill, or be viable; This did however.
When the Canis was rebalanced (and not properly, as without the gimick, it died), VS infantry didn't lose viability; NC did for the MAX.
None of these, had be stuck to a single niche use, and then told Once their entire ability to kill was crippled, to Adapt further.
No VS MAX lost half their firepower when ZOE was nerfed hard, they could still be viable in operation.
An NC MAX has lost their firepower, in their viable range, and gained Nothing; They have No benefit for their costs.
The Shield, is the only thing that makes the Slowest unit in the game, able to even have a prayer to use a short-ranged weapon.

MAXes are not the most efficient thing, they are quite literally the most expensive asset with the least capabilities in their price range.
With the largest list of counters to them; What kind of nerf would actually work with them?
They will always have better range (and their range isn't the best in general), they have tons of counter-weapons.

Yet, from that wording, if they were crippled to uselessness, you'd be fine with it, not bothered by imbalance.
Can we use that notion towards aircraft? Who have less counters, than MAXes.
We have ESFs with twice the firepower of land-vehicles past the MBT itself, for less, with numerous perks.
We have Liberators flying with twice the firepower of MBTs, with numerous perks.
We have the Sky, demanding the ability to always be able to return-fire, when it itself can deny it let alone death.
Does this mean, They deserve to be brutally nerfed for one-side, To then be used as logic to nerf them all? No.

If we're going to call something a low-skill crutch, after seeing it get brutally butchered for 1 side, and then say the entire class needs to be nerfed down (to the same level nearly, where they can barely operate I might add)
The argument, then just sounds like you want them butchered, not balanced.

IE it doesn't matter if it has a shield that works with the weapon, if the Weapon can't do its damn job.
As unless that Shield ensures it can win the race, all it does, is allow the unit to even get within attempt-range.
Right now, The opponent in every viable situation, is equal or better to the NC MAX:
This means, at the best situation, the NC MAX is already behind their opponent, Shield is keeping them being Straight-dead instantly.

IE Shield isn't the God & Savior making their reduced ability to even compete, not an issue.
It only means, the Suit can survive more than seconds.

I think you are out of touch with the NC MAX.

The shield for example. It takes about a second before it is truly "up" and soaks damage, before that it doesnt soak damage that well. By the time its up you get maybe 0,5 seconds of protection before you have to put it down again which again takes about a second before you can fire and instantly removes the protection.
The shield is strong enough to tank one enemy MAX, but if you get attacked by a MAX and 2 people that shield breaks within seconds. Besides that you use the same fallacy as the Vanguard shield of "use it to get close". No one does that except in very narrow circumstances because it makes you a target and encourages everyone to blow you away. Additionally closing the distance only helps you equalize your DPS compared to the other two MAX's who are effective right away.

The fact that you can do "OK with Hacksaws" means nothing. Sure you can do OK, I can do OK with a beamer on a light assault against Heavies. Does that make it a fair and balanced fight? No! Just remember that whenever you did OK with hacksaws the TR/VS equivalents do even better because they have more range as an option.

Also 2 MAX's per 1 NC MAX? unless you had that anti-bullet armor and they didnt and you had a pocket Engi, nope not really the case. At best you could kill one MAX in one magazine (and I've been screwed over in a 1v1 because I started at 10m range with firing) and by the time you reloaded your health is low enough to be taken down by the other MAX (or in case you took flak armor and you didnt kill in one magazine because you started a literal 2m too early they could kill you before you killed them, and that was the "OP" NC MAX).

Literally impossible to kill 2 maxes at once with one NC max. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/532019604353187842/562860896578174977/PS2_Maxes.PNG

Noone else has been affected like this in the entire history of the game...
You keep playing it down and I don't understand why.

This isn't the striker nerf, this isn't ZOE, you still had viable options after those nerfs,
this is a nerf to the ENTIRE FREAKING ARSENAL,
In one single patch they "zoe'd" every single weapon that one faction had on an entire class.

I can't even say that this is like making every single VS LMG have half of the range,
double the COF and half of the sustain as TR and NC LMGs,
(the current nc max situation compared to VS and TR),
because even if that happened you'd still have SMGs, you'd still have options,

They annihilated every single AI weapon that NC max had,
to a point were freaking Gorgons are the current "least useless"
(I really can't say "best" in a scenario like this...) option.

If you can give us an example of when one faction has had every single weapon in their arsenal
for an entire class absolutely destroyed then you can continue to tell us to "adapt like everyone else".
But there is no other example, there is no adapting when every single weapon in your arsenal
is a collosal downgrade to the weapons of the other 2 factions, as is the case with nc max,
Pick you weapon, compare the counterparts, try to defend that utter inbalance.

You say adapt? Clearly NC are, they aren't wasting nanites pulling their useless max anymore,
even when they're freaking FREE for an alert, NC aren't pulling their worthless maxes.
That is the only adaption that can be made when a class has every weapon nerfed to uselessness.
The class has pretty much been removed from play for NC.

I was an absolute NC Max noob when I first did it. I rounded a corner on a double stack and came face to face with two VS Maxes blasting away. I DPSed one down with hacksaws, popped the shield, then 1-clipped the other when he went to reload. That was my first "this thing is broken as ****" experience.

I wouldn't argue that's possible these days, but I was going 1v1 with TR Maxes all night and beating them. I honestly can't see how you all are having such a hard time with your shields. I've always loved that ability and it still works for me. I don't k ow the names of any max mains, so I can't say I'm going up against the best, but I'm just not getting curbstomped the way y'all are. Of course, I'm not fighting past close range, because that's just not in the cards.

Oh come on. I recently used a partially certed VS MAX with its basic AI gun and the standard Comet AV with a friend of mine as pocket Engi and defeated multiple TR MAX's in a row without any further suppport, including several battles where the TR MAX was supported by 1 or 2 other dudes besides their pocket Engi. And these werent newbs we were fighting some prestige guys. Does that single experience where with a barely certed VS MAX I was able to wipe the floor with experienced enemies instantly make it OP? Ofcourse not! Its a single scenario where my buddy and I just made the better choices (such as my pocket engi not repairing me but nailing the non-MAX infantry instead, then repairing me when the fight was over).

The game should not be balanced because you or me had an experience. It should be balanced based on all experiences, from the newb that doesnt know what a COF is to the most experienced and elite player. We can use experiences and stories on the forum to gauge if something should be changed even if its balanced. Like the Vanguard shield that just barely keeps the Vanguard competitive but makes the enemies always feel cheated. Thats not a good experience in-game to have, so it needs to go or be changed to feel good.

Agreed, and like I said, that was my first "this thing is OP as ****" moment. About every other time I pulled it I felt the same.

Sorry brah, no such thing exists for the NC Piñata class.

Go Heavy Assault. You don't have to be a genius to see all the upsides. Fast HA or Tanky HA. Operating a HA with avoidance + sensor shield is a saucepan of fun in big fights.

*tips hat*
Happy Hunting.

The scatcannon, grinder, hacksaw and mattock, have been rendered utterly useless.

About the only weapons I use now are the Gorgons or Ravens.

Anti Air maxes are generally worthless.

Emergency repair and ordnance armor are all that matter as a max.