Construction rework needed desperately, what are the devs afraid of?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. karlooo

    In the past, with the HIVES the attacks where much more extreme, the structures did a good job at defending it.
    I'm not praising the HIVES and the past, it had problems but now it's just a terrible experience for base builders, and it does nothing for the team. That's what it should be about, nobody who builds a base wants it for himself.

    Currently nobody gives a damn about PMB's. The only ppl who care are construction players.
    So instead of a massive siege like what used to happen, now it's like as if you're defending your home against pests, and the pests are the small amount of construction players that want to remove you from the territory.

    So what happens is you have this constant stream of single enemies, constantly trying to look for holes in your base, an inaccuracy. For example if hiding in your tower doesn't work, next time he will bring a tank and attack from an undefended angle, then he will bring an invisible Sunderer and constantly infiltrator attack....basically the players do this until they hound you out or destroy you, not fun to defend against this.

    This is the time when Construction needs a desperate rework.
    The structures are massive...they where designed for mass amounts of people. Currently pretty much one person manages the whole base...it's impossible to defend solo and that's what you will be doing unless you have a friend, not like the friend enjoys doing the dirty work for you.

    _____________________________________________________


    The PS2 developers need to realize that a large amount of players have been asking for a Construction refund for a really long time! It's in such a bad state, that people who main it do not care if it gets removed they just want their investments back...

    So there is nothing to be afraid of, nothing to lose if you completely reworked it.
    Many things construction can turn into.

    Construction could possibly be oriented around an arms factory, where the construction players defend the structure which produces some special vehicle for the squad.
    Like the colossus tank. A massive battleship. Something fun, unique, an upgrade.

    Shooting an OS laser that destroys everything is not fun and interactive. I'm really surprised that the devs put a lot of time into this nonsense.

    [IMG]

    Or maybe no construction zones could be removed and all the structures remade into some smaller supporting structures, something like a 'tank trap', and so on...
  2. Demigan

    Here are some of my idea's:

    • Make construction fast and easy. Lowers the risk/reward expectation and reduces the chance your base is finished by the time the fight has already moved on.
    • Make construction do special things.
      • Let them build a Colossus tank, but give it a purpose. For example the Colossus tank is immediately visible on the map for everyone on the server. If you manage to get it into the enemy warpgate area you score a point for an alert for example. This creates a sort of VIP gameplay where the VIP is a giant armored tank that needs to punch through the entirety of the enemy faction, hopefully with support of it's own team.
      • Let PMB's be used for transport. If you can build a teleporter that teleports infantry and vehicles to another teleport pad anywhere on the continent. With this in place you can immediately reduce the amount of redeployside you have in the game. Some facilities and bases could also have hard teleporters build in to support PMB telepads being useful.
      • Add items that aren't connected to the base but can be used in defense and assaults of normal bases. The router is an example that already exists.
    • Up x 2
  3. adamts01

    Since PMBs/Hives are no longer critical to win, I think they need a decent survival buff. I build them for routers and cheap ESF, but a solo infil can easily wreck one of these things, especially with that new knife (why Daybreak, why!?!?).

    To make them more of a priority, I think the glave could use a serious buff and the particle Canon should have its range doubled. And let a base take a whole squad to take down.

    Those are all the easy fixes. Ideally PMBs would be roadblocks. But we'd need the lattice system revised so PMBs couldn't simply be skipped.
  4. LordKrelas

    Do you wish to be first in line, to the automated self-repairing grind-wall, Where a one-sided PvE assault must break through an empty base, full of automated defenses, Pain-fields, and repair units?
    If not, Perhaps not say the notion that a Builder can force groups to grind up against an automated wall, which they can build rapidly , profit from at a distance AFK, and then actually defend the things..

    As well; Longer Range OSC, means more can target the same base at once, making the blanket Wipes of Lattice bases, even quicker & more often.
    While having more durability, so more time & men, to take out the even larger surface area where these are rapidly made.
    Bio-Labs, they're going to be murderously bad, as imagine losing progress thanks to OSC's, across multiple hexes.
    And that means, a constant requirement of Squads doing nothing but scanning for Barren OSC's.

    I can agree with giving them purpose, and not being glass,
    But not if they're a literal "**** you , Grind against a wall, Or die remotely" Affair.
    IE, Not a single thing about them, past Routers , actually helps allies, past Killing people as a byproduct.
    OSC's, are just as dangerous to allies, and LAYERED in painful costs for Builders,(in time, in cort, and placement, in use), and kill allies & enemies, resetting an entire lattice base essentially, if the PMB isn't terminated before a Stalker infil fires it.

    Aka, Fighting PMBs, is fighting mostly against an Experience that tries to Discourage going near it.
    It discourages attacks, It isn't enjoyable to attack, nor rewarding - It ain't even rewarding for allies that isn't the Build-squad.
    It however, has numerous Defensive features, Benefits for the build squad, and tools to Force the enemy to Attack it.
    Which, is quite literally, been typically, "Fire at solid wall. Dodge Automated Lifeless defenses, Grind inanimate object, repeat"
    Mean while, the Builder can play the normal game, and gets basically automated cookie-clicker Certs in the backdrop, after the Mass from harvesting cort - and any repair certs.

    In short: Making them durable, and giving their Weapons-that-force-attackers-to-attack-in-middleOfsoddingNoWhere more range,
    Makes them even less enjoyable to deal with, and keeps them solidly as a One-sided Experience.
    (I rather Demigan's idea in comparison, to doubling down on them being "Discourage Enemy if attacking, Vaporize Enemy if Not attacking")
    But hey, Least they aren't also locking the entire map off, and suicide-killing every one who actually shot down the Map lock.
    It's just "Grind against a wall, or modules, Or suffer" ,which is suffer-or-suffer, unless you're the Builder.
    Do you perhaps see why giving them more range & durability, Which makes them more *** to deal with, Let alone when Unskippable is ******?
  5. adamts01

    If they were unskippable, then they're in a decent place currently.

    The buffing talk was only for the current lattice Mechanics.They're just so easy to wipe out right now. I only use them for a router and air terminal, and I don't even bother with turrets or anything because they're hopeless against a single tank or even a single infil.
  6. TR5L4Y3R

    as demigan mentioned PMB´s should get assets exclusive to them but costing a fair ammount of resources
    a spawning platform for a collusus tank and/or BFR for sieging either latice- and/ or other pm bases ..

    the no build and no deploy zones imo need to be decreased for more capability ..
    i would not neccesarily change zones were no OS or static artillery can be used but that still may adjusted to not have too much impact on laticebasefights otherwise adjust the strikingpower accordingly ....

    pmb´s should be able to assist in attack or defense of laticebases ..


    other than that i do not have specific ideas .. imo the current assets pmb´s provide are good enough they may however need tweaks for broader use ..
    personaly i still would love if both the OS-uplink and the silo explode in a nuke .. give it some satisfying audiovisual feedback destroying one ..
    attacking pmb´s or defending them should offer a fair xp reward worth ababandoning a laticebasepush/defense ..
  7. karlooo

    Yeah, the way it produces the special units could work like the HIVE. The closer it is to the enemy warp-gate, the faster it produces and vice-versa.
    Even though this is an odd idea, it's much better than the OS base because you won't have just one person using the OS and the rest dumping resources, doing the dirty work.
    Everyone will build/defend the base and they will also man the special vehicle together.

    Maybe once the special vehicle is produced the whole base will deconstruct over some time...so there won't be abandoned bases all over the map.
    And the arms factory will go on a big Cooldown (depending on what it is).
  8. Demigan

    Actually, since building closer to the warpgate lets you drive thete faster it is its own reward and you dont have to reward it with faster build times.

    And I see no reason not to allow players to build multiple collosus (colossi?) from the same base. you could even make it part of the base: it takes a few minutes before its constructed so the base needs to be strong enough to protect it in that time. This prevents spam but allows multiple attempts without constantly having to build new PMB's.
  9. karlooo


    The closer it is to Enemy warpgate, the faster it produces...The closer to my warpgate, the slower it produces? That's the same way HIVE's worked.
  10. Demigan

    No I think we misunderstand each other.

    I thought you said that the closer you build to an enemy warpgate the faster it should be produced.

    I tried to say: Let's let the production rate be the same no matter where you place it, since the closer you place it to an enemy warpgate the shorter a distance you have to drive to get there. So placing it closer is already it's own reward.

    Then I'm not sure what you tried to say in the last post and I think that if I explain what I understand it'll only make it harder to understand.
    • Up x 2
  11. LordKrelas

    HIVEs started off at better rates, and were intangible.
    Each HIVE added to the rate of production, and the outcome was an instant VP that was permanent, as was the Progress.
    If it's a tank that has to be delivered, Being closer to the enemy already comes with the benefit of less terrain.
    In Hives, That didn't matter at all, as you never needed to protect anything outside the walls, so the full distance to the gate meant nothing.

    So, having to drive the vehicle out of the Base, means the Distance is its own reward.
    You don't need to double-boost the Vehicle creation & the gap it has to cross to score.
    As then, you have less time to rush the gate, and less time between attempts; That's also less time needed to defend either asset.
    IE a lot of issue with HIVE functionality, that doesn't work when you need to deliver an asset, nor when it was raw VPs.

    IE, he just said "No", to the speed boost.


    -- Edit:
    My timing, is crap.
    Oh well,
  12. karlooo


    Yeah but then what's the purpose of designing and defending the base if you just build it near your warpgate?
    Like actually it may not matter anyways because you'll leave the base once the tank is finished, or maybe not if you are making it for someone else.
  13. Demigan

    Isn't that a beautiful thing?

    Close to your own warpgate you need relatively little protection, most importantly you would need AA defenses and protection against Gal drops while the tank is in production. But you have to drive across the entire continent and ward off enemy attacks and keep the vehicle supplied and repaired while you do it, and not all roads might be accessible for this huge tank.

    Or you build it close to an enemy warpgate, but likely have to fight off a large amount of the faction just to build it and then drive the vehicle to the enemy warpgate a short distance.

    Seems pretty fair and balanced to me.
  14. karlooo


    Actually now when I think about it you're right. There is no reason to design the base anymore after the removal of HIVE's, you can't defend against tanks.

    I would much rather, just wait at warpgate and have no action, than being hounded out of my own base by a single mental person.

    Currently the only base attacks I've received was by one or 2 ppl attacking my base constantly once I left...just destroying the spawns and modules or hacking a terminal nearby and purchasing attacking with a tank.